Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Visionaries of Tomorrow Keith Giffen musings

Keith\'s Wizard column

The url is for the main site. You can find Keith's column easy enough from there.

"How about stories that should have been written, but weren't?

• "Black Dawn." That'd be from my "5 Years Later" Legion stint."

That would've rocked. They should've let him do it as a mini now during all the Infinity Crisis stuff.

Here's a particularly interesting comment.

"2) Karate Kid was, and still is, a character I despise. As a matter of fact, way back when, the only reason I stayed on the Legion when it went Baxter was because Paul promised I could kill him. I am so hoping history will repeat itself."

Karate Kid reference: I don't quite understand how a writer or artist could despise any fictional character - enough to just want to kill them off?

When in a position of having creative license, why not either improve the character or shelve them for someone else later? I always thought the death of a character should be for story telling purposes, not vendetta. The comments on Karate Kid by Mr. Giffen seem a little strange to me.

It seems strange... AND annoying... to me as well, and I'm a colossal "Giffan".

I don't know. I think everyone has one character that for some reason or another they just want to wipe out, and if it can serve a good story that is just a plus.

Well, I guess. I personally can't wait to become head of DC and wipe out The Joker entirely.

If I got to be DC EiC, there'd be a huge-yet-specific trail of gore if I got my way...

PS: http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/archive/giffen.cfm

As DC EIC I would create Giffin Boy, a guy in a cape with no super talents and forgotten drawing skills. Then I would kill him, again and again. He would make Kenny seem like Ras Al Ghul.

Giffens 5YL was also great because the story of Black Dawn was NOT told at first. To figure out piece by piece what had been happening was very interesting for me, like some detectives work. Certainly, later on, at least after the Dominator story arc was over, he should have told it - but he was off the book then.

I don't know if it would make much sense to tell the story today - off course I would buy it, but who else?

If I hated a character (and I have a few) I wouldn't kill them or even try to improve them. I just wouldn't use them. Let somebody else down the line that likes them do something worthwhile with them.

With that said? This team is a Legion...they probably should have their fair share of member deaths.

Looking back at Giffen's original work and comparing it to not even two years later I have to wonder when he suffered the blunt trauma to the head. In my opinion his later work was so bad it almost hurt my eyes to try to read the stories.

That could be part of why I'm not a big fan of the five years later stuff. That and the dirty future thing.

Karate Kid is one of my favorite Legionnaires,I thought it sucked when Giffen killed him off just because he did'nt have powers and in his opinion did not belong in the Legion and then he brought him back in the SW6 batch and killed him off again,I always disliked mystical characters in the Legion but rather than kill off the White Witch I would rather she just left the group.

I have to say that WAS the worst Giffen art I've ever seen. He was probably all ready to do 5YG and didn't have his heart in the Magic Wars...at all.

With all due respect, I'm "SO" hoping not!

Hmmm. His latest :

well that's too bad...because Karate Kid has died for the third time no matter what book Keith is associated with. The latest one recently was in Countdown.

Keith Giffen from an interview in 2003 -

Giffen kill the original Emerald Empress, too.
For me...
It's only a bad and egocentric writer, and worse artist.

I agree one hundred percent.

I disagree. Both the deaths of Karate Kid and the Emerald Empress were well told and powerful stories. I think we have to take Giffen's musings as a bit of tongue in cheek. Giffen is a true giant in Legion lore, and had his hand in some of the most amazing Legion stories ever told. Sure, there is some ego involved, but I don't think we should dismiss his talent.

What talent?

And while I'll allow that the LSV arc where KK died was a good story (partly because most of it was pencilled by Steve Lightle over Giffen's layouts), no one can convince me that the death of Emerald Empress story is anything but utter trash, especially since Levitz-without-Giffen had so impressively redefined the Empress in the Sensor Girl/New Fatal Five story. Levitz/Giffen's Empress story was a waste of a great character and a waste of trees.

He died AGAIN?? So was he the Lightning Saga Version or the Action version or the 3-boot version?

I didn't like his art in the period in which Sarya died, either.

But his work from a handful of stories before The Great Darkness Saga until the issue just before the Omen storyline is wonderful. Among my favorites on any title. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone there.

I don't think his art worked at all on the Magic Wars storyline. Giffen is awesome, however.

Levitz was far better when he had Giffen working with him, imo, and his run slowly descended into blandness once Keith left.