Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! A Look Back: Sensor Girl and the new Fatal Five (v.3, # 14-27)

That may have been part of it. I think another part was the quite sensible notion that Jeckie's powers are most useful when her opponents don't know what they are. And since they probably do know who she is, she needs to wear a mask.

It seems to me the only advantage an opponent gains by knowing who Projectra is and what she does, is the nullification of the surprise element.
Other than that, an "illusion" can be something much deeper and psychological than, say, the appearance of a fiery dragon. Subtler illusions can either generate fear from the inside or tap into an opponent's deepest phobias, any person's deepest phobias really.
Projectra has demonstrated she can create the subtlest kinds of illusions to undermine both the psyche and the senses of her opponents thus rendering them incapable of "seeing through" the illusion.
One example of this is what she did to Nemesis Kid.

Well, that's true when she's being well-written, which mostly hasn't happened. There are certainly some illusions that can cross you up even if you know they're illusions. What the mask gives her is not surprise but the absence of skepticism. Anybody who knows that they're going up against Projectra is going to have it in mind that maybe they shouldn't believe their eyes, but if they don't even know that, she's got that much more of an advantage.

(In my opinion, what she did to Nemesis Kid had nothing to do with her powers at all.)

Well, I can see how that could work, of course, even though - pragmatistically speaking - she'd have to change her appearance quite often. It wouldn't be long before the Legion's opponents realised that the "masked woman" is either Projectra or some other illusion caster.

What she did to Nemesis Kid was, I believe, one of the cleverest uses of her power. The illusion that there are no senses. No seeing, no hearing, no smelling, no touching but an illusion of complete isolation from the universe. Unless Nemesis Kid had incredibly strong willpower he'd probably suffer a nervous breakdown soon, to say the least.
I'm not a psychologist but the idea of not being able to communicate with the outside universe, not even by touching oneself, seems to me like the beginning of the deconstruction of consciousness, of selfhood. In other words, Hell!

You're absolutely right that rarely has Projectra been written well, regardless of her potential. Her power is visual and most writers were happy to use it in the most "superficial" -albeit pleasing and impressive - way.

Not if she was subtle about it. Which, as I recall, she was.

I understand your interpretation, but I don't share it. I think that she was just angry enough and strong-willed enough and... and... and queenly enough that Nemesis Kid couldn't bring himself to fight back. If it was just a matter of a new/clever/strange use of her power, his power would have counteracted it. I know that you can cite aspects of the art of that issue in support of your take on that scene; all I can say in response is that in my opinion it was drawn symbolically and dramatically but not literally.

Maybe I should reread it; I'm going from memory here.

Which reminds me of another character. Martian Manhunter. Everybody knows his weakness is fire. Don't you think he would assume another identity? I mean he has shape shifting AND telepathy.

I like Projectra's identity always kept secret. She can appear as a different Legionnaire each issue.

I'd like that, too. I love futuristic costumes!

Matthew said She was all those things. She felt them to the bone. That's exactly why she was able to cast such an amazing illusion, and her own pain and sadness and anger fueled her power so Nemesis Kid just couldn't counteract it. I'm not too familiar with how Nemesis Kid's power works - that is, whether it's instinctive and automatic or he needs to use his will too - but I believe Jeckie did use her power. It's possible that Nemesis Kid would be able to shake off her illusion eventually, though, using his power.
I, too, need to reread that issue. It's been so long that I might have forgotten some details.

Matthew also said Hmm, yes I see what you mean now that I think of it. If I remember correctly she did sort of "fool" even other Legionnaires about what her powers really were like. She could use "subtler" illusions against opponents without them realizing they were illusions, leaving them in the dark about her real identity.
Of course she *would* have to change her costume regularly which is just fine as far as I'm concerned. After all, even her costume could be an illusion and Sneckie could even look human.

I'm enjoying Dain and Matthew's interpretations of Projectra's powers.

Another possibility for her victory over Nemesis Kid, although somewhat tongue-in-cheek, is that he was simply afraid of women! Projectra, after all, had defeated him before -- in Superboy # 208 -- by casting an illusion of a monster that frightened him into forgetting to use his power. Going along with what Matthew said above, if NK knew who Projectra was and what her powers were (which he certainly did), he had no reason to be afraid of the illusion.

Also, in Adventure # 372, NK is defeated by Duo Damsel. Her ability to split into two bodies, we were told, rendered NK's power useless, as he could beat only one opponent at a time. I've always been troubled by this explanation. What prevented NK from simply adapting to her ability and splitting himself into two bodies? (Perhaps she surpised him before he had a chance to adapt.)

Taken together, though, NK's defeat by both Projectra (twice) and Duo Damsel might suggest an even deeper psychological shortcoming.

Thank you He Who Wanders. I enjoyed it too. It's nice to be able to talk about all the minutiae and trivia from the Legion history.

Considering how little "gnothi seauton" (know thyself) Nemesis Kid and many other villains display, and how inflated his ego could get from a formidable power like counteracting others' powers, I wouldn't be surprised if Nem really held quite chauvinistic views like "it's unforgivable to be beaten by a girl".
Even in the 30th century when such views will, hopefully, be nothing more than "barbaric notions from the distant past", a guy like Nemesis Kid could well suffer from this defeat.

I'm not sure how his power works. He can't duplicate any power, so he wouldn't be able to split in two like Duo Damsel (Duplicate Boy would be able to do that). Could he even counteract a natural trait like Luornu's Carggian heritage?
I suppose his power is something like creating an "antidote" of sorts to an opponent's super-powered attack, that nullifies the result of that power on himself. He couldn't nullify Luornu's ability to split in two, because that's another kind of power and if he could do that he'd have used it in other cases.
As for Projectra, if he were really afraid of women, or women he had been defeated from, that fact may have contrbuted to his inability to shake off Projectra's "sensory deprivation" illusion that also shattered his already shaky "self image", so your theory may not be "tongue-in-cheek" at all!

I've never been able to get a grasp on Nemesis Kid's power, either, Dain. "The ability to defeat any one opponent" is open to any interpretation. It comes in handiest when he's fighting someone like Karate Kid; all it means is that he has to be tougher than KK. But how would he defeat Duo Damsel, Chameleon Boy, or Phantom Girl without taking on their abilities and, in effect, becoming Duplicate Boy, as you said?

I guess that's why NK has always been one of my least favorite villains. His power is simply too vague to make sense.

Well, if Matthew sees this he may be have a theory on how his power works. Exactly.

Nemesis Kid was indifferent as a villain, compared to many other Legion villains, but because of his involvement in the Karate Kid/Projectra story he was spotlighted and we got to see the psyche of a minor villain like him. This added some depth to him, as a character, even though he remained rather boring as a foe.

The way I see Nemesis Kid's powers is that he's got something like Ultra Boy's ultra-energy. The difference is, Jo's powers are standard transmission and Nemesis Kid's powers are automatic transmission. Jo has to pick a specific power from a small list, Nemesis Kid just has to pick an opponent and the energy configures itself to whatever he needs.

So, the way I figure it, Projectra can fool Nemesis Kid, but she can't fool his power; it knows perfectly well that she can use illusion and it can give him the ability to disregard any sensory input she generates. But Duo Damsel can step right through the one loophole his power has: she really is two opponents, and his power, unlike Fezzik, can't fight groups, only individuals.

It sounds very plausible, Matthew. Thanks.
Duo Damsel is two opponents literally, even though she's more like one person with more than one bodies. If it can be said that Nem's power could be "confused" Luornu proved it.

Wonderful analogy.

I also agree with your explanations, regarding Duo Damsel and Projectra's abilities.

Funny that the thread stopped at 63 posts, when the Baxter run stopped at...63 issues.

Anyhow...

LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES # 17 -- "A New Beginning"

Credits: Paul Levitz, writer -- Greg LaRocque, penciler -- Larry Mahlstedt, inker -- Karen Berger, editor

Plot: Dream Girl predicts the death of R.J. Brande just as Brande's rival, Leland McCauley, is scheming to have his underlings kill Brande. The Legion foils McCauley's plan, and Brande decides to change his identity and start over. So, in a crazy way, Dream Girl was right.

Thoughts: A rather simple story by Levitz standards, almost a throwback to earlier eras, but without the charm. However, it does two things very well: A) It writes Brande out of the book without resorting to melodrama and without betraying the character, and B) It puts Dream Girl in the spotlight, almost always fun when Levitz is writing her (I say "almost" because I hate the mind-slavery that overtook Dream Girl late in Levitz's run; I cope with it by chalking it up to an error in Levitz's judgement.)

I recall some of Larouque's best is coming up. Is this the issue where Jan and Shvaughn go to Trom? That I recall was on beauty of an issue and it would improve the cartoon is they took some of the characterization of the females from this Takron story, both Ayla and Vi.

It sure is. I think he kept steadily improving up to his exit from the book, which is why I was surprised when I found out that he exited due to burnout.

That would be the final issue in this block, # 27.

LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES # 18: "Has Anyone Noticed a Crisis Going On?"

Credits: Paul Levitz, writer -- Greg LaRocque, penciller -- Larry Mahlstedt, inker -- Karen Berger, editor

Note: This issue ties into the mega-crossover Crisis On Infinite Earths.

Plot: As the Crisis brings death and destruction to the 30th Century, Brainiac 5 is prodded by Rond Vidar to find a way to deal with it. Meanwhile, the prison planet Takron-Galtos is threatened by walls of anti-matter, and a team of Legionnaires struggles to evacuate the prisoners before disaster strikes.

Thoughts: Levitz really finds a way to make the mega-crossover work for him, resulting in one of my favorite issues of his Legion run. I've always liked the way he wrote Ayla (I wish the issue that spotlighted her, the one right after the LSV arc, had been better drawn) and here she effectively shows a take-charge attitude as the Legion deals with the riot on Takron-Galtos; the scene where she saves the naive Magnetic Kid from a sneaky prisoner is a classic. Levitz also finds an ideal use for the Infinite Man, arguably the only good villain he ever created. LaRocque has some great moments here, especially the scene of Validus breaking out of a humongous cube of Inertron; he still hasn't developed a panel-to-panel consistency, but he's making great strides considering the relatively short amount of time he's been on this book. And Levitz's best line in this issue goes to Dream Girl: "Element Lad sending an alarm from the Time Institute? Did Brainy's latest scheme blow up in his face again?"

At least Duo Damsel's reasons for joining the conspiracy were clear. I never did understand Saturn Girl's involvement.[QUOTE]Originally posted by He Who Wanders:
[QB]

It probably stemmed from the fact that she as one of the legion founders she helped recruit him to the legion. And that she was inspired by him to be who she was.

Perhaps, but why not involve Cosmic Boy and/or Lightning Lad? Why of the three founders would only Saturn Girl have a reason to be involved in the conspiracy?

The only connection I can think of is (as someone once mentioned), Superman was shown dating Saturn Woman, IIRC, but that version of the Adult Legion had already been retconned away by Levitz.

heh she was the one carrying the casket at the time of the vow.

Legion of Super-Heroes # 19: “NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED” and “FREEDOM OF CHOICE”

Credits: Paul Levitz, writer – Greg LaRocque, penciller (1st story) – Larry Mahlstedt, inker (1st story) – Chuck Patton, penciller (2nd story) – Mike DeCarlo, inker (2nd story) – Karen Berger, editor

Plot (1st story): Phantom Girl, Ultra Boy, Chameleon Boy, Shriking Violet, and Element Lad – the same team who destroyed a Sun-Eater created by a Controller a several issues earlier (# 7-8) – are teleported away by the same controller to face the consequences. Namely, the Sun-Eater had been created to destroy Tyrazz, a moving mechanized warworld bent on conquering anything in its path (and the homeworld of LSH enemy Tyr.)

Plot (2nd story): Invisible Kid II foils a robbery.

Thoughts: The first story is the first half of a fairly routine 2-parter that is saved by the art. By this point, the LaRocque/Mahlstedt team was really beginning to jell, often recalling vintage Byrne/Austin X-Men art, especially in the awe-inspiring renditions of the warworld. The second story stars Invisible Kid II, or as I like to call him, Cupcake Head, and therefore has never been of any interest to me.

This (the first story) was inspired by fan comments about Legion destroying something they really didn't understand, as I revall.

For me, this story made Tyr more than a bluster type one-shot, into a solid character worth developing. Unfortunately, I think he and the planet was not visited again?

She's the only one the conspirators couldn't hide from? Not only can she read minds, but she's also one of the four smartest Legionnaires (along with Brainy, Dreamy and Cham).

That explains why they might want her to be involved, but not why SHE would want to be involved.