Legion World Forums LEGION OUTPOST Mission Monitor Board semi-official LMB Comic writing thread! - now with added crunch -

Seems to me we have more than one lawyer in our "stable."

The issues I see right off of the top of my head are Copyrights and egos.

Lard Lad is a unique character (Unless you count Herbie the Fat Fury ) so there's no problem with him. Space Ranger OTOH is a derivative character who would need an extensive re-write (Already done BTW) before he could be used in any commercial venture.

The above is presented just as an example of possible hurdles...

Ego's however could present the larger and more difficult challenge... Everyone involved wants their creation or character to take center stage in an undertaking of this type. But there is generally only one spotlight per story and that spotlight can only illuminate a limited number of characters. Who stars, who supports, who guests, and who doesn't make the cut? No easy questions there...

Hey!
Shshshshsh...there might be n00bs around.

Not that it was redundant but I was setting up a time travel bit to fight Phineas at the moment he entered Legion World and figured it would be fun to split the characters into myriad versions of themselves. And I thought if I got to use it I'd push it as far as I could go since they were all going to be removed to their separate realities in the end anyway.
Imagine Cowboy Cobalt and Kid Lard-O or IronBear and Queen Crueljectra.

I still agree it's a great concept... but as everyone envisions not only their own but everyone else's characters differently, it is a far harder collaboration than a role play.

Even just sketching out a few demo pages, we had dozens of character designs/names to modify... it was a lot on both of our shoulders.

Everyone who wants their character(s) to be a part of it should redefine the characters themselves, including designs (even the roughest sketches can give a more detailed artist something to work with)... and character summaries in their own words: personality, background, powers, etc.

Abin and I toyed around with some of this previously... but rather than 1 or 2 deciding these things, everyone who wants in should. Characters not offered by their users should not be used (we can create others as needed).

For any given issue/installment there should be a single plotter/editor, who can weed through suggestions but would be the main director for that issue; we rotate though editors (although individual characters should be scripted by their regular users). I see this running like an RPG, with the editor serving as game master.

Rather than re-tell MMB stories, we should treat it as a separate 'universe,' because the MMB will generate content faster than a comic can catch up. This will further help isolate us from copyrights, egos and unwilling participants.

The hardest part will be getting the art done. We can discuss specializations/preferences, as some of us (like moi) tend to be slower than others.

Kent, I'm thinking web-comic with at most two published pages a week?

Assuming an art team can be assembled?

that sounds reasonable.

Two pages a week will be impossible for me before May, and ideally this should not rely on any single artist anyway.

Rather than pages, we should take advantage of the web and do panels one at a time, with each artist working on a particular plot/sub-plot (if some get ambtious, they can take on multiple ones, and whoever is 'ahead' at any given times could handle panels where plotlines converge).

We can assemble the panels into an order ('pages' or not) later, and add dialogue afterward too.

We shouldn't be plotting/scripting too far ahead as artists will be working at different speeds. We need to remain flexible, so the whole thing is not delayed by one person's procrastination.

I suggest a vague premise that lets the story unfold slowly, rather than a three-week lag between idea and art.

If (for example) I am drawing a sub-plot in which Kent, EDG and Exxy are trapped in the Mesozoic era, as I envision it Exxy and EDG/Abin would toss ideas back and forth to me. I'd draw it, and we'd all come up with our own characters' dialogue. Only once that panel was done would we plan the next panel.

We would all share 1-3 weeks of 'unpublished' panels, to keep track of what each other are all doing, and gradually assemble them into order for the public. That way a delay/inconsistency can be dealt with in an organized fashion.

As I think about it, this would have to get going in small groups, in order to be manageable - one artist per 2-6 active characters/2-3 real people.

That way, rather than trying to coordinate a huge team, we could just do a trial run. Hopefully others would get interested and join in.

So far, it's just you and I talking in a vacuum, Abin.

I'd suggest we get started on the design phase, with the firat 2-3 people to step up to the plate with character names/bios/designs (even the roughest, kindergarten-est of sketches; it doesn't have to be seen by anyone but me). Let's start with 2-3 characters, and slowly add in more as we need to.

I don't mind fine-tuning a rough design, but I don't have inclination to design a cast of thousands solo, especially when multiple redesigns would be the likely necessity (like Cobalt Kid, last time around... this time, it would be up to Cobie himself as to whether or not he had the trenchcoat Joe-Boy drew or any other look, rather than you and I disagreeeing on it).

This has to stay manageable, so as not to get discouraging for any artist... last time, besides time, the scope and detail was overwhelming; we had a cast-of-thousands shot on page 4 or 5 and most of them hadn't even been designed yet (or else we hadn't sorted out/agreed on enough details, as I recall).

I think we're saying the same things, just with a different finish line.

The story should be "in the can" a month before publication. The backlog being created well before the publication date.

That means we're probably talking two to three months of set-up time before a page(1) or strip(2) is posted to the site. That would also allow for different plotlines to run concurrently and help ensure that the posting schedule can be maintained.

agreed!

further thinking out loud:

rather than getting cluttered up with too much starting exposition (let's face it, we did start off kinda bogged down with EDG), we start with three characters who wake up imprisoned in some extradimentional citadel/satellite... and we make it all up as we go along from there.

That way, we only need to add backstory when it becomes relevant, and we can add characters one-by-one as we need to.

Okay, my replies are now out of order...

The last time I wasn't smart enough to listen to your web comic idea and insisted on writing a comic book submission...

So yes this time I'm agreeing 100%

But which 2-3 characters do we start out with?

OBTW I'm not looking for an answer from you, Kent, I want to see if anyone else is interested in jumping on board this train.

I'm fine with not wearing out new readers by engaging in endless backstory. Think about it, we didn't get a Legion origin for a decade, I honestly don't remember when the first version of the founders saving RJ Brande was printed. I'd have to go to the archives to look for it.

I've thought for quite a while that the web offers a unique opportunity to combine and mix media for story purposes. I'm a fan of Newgrounds (as an example of creative use of animation) and the chance to mix it up with flash, java, text and original art really interests me.

This hasn't even included ideas that might involve a character blog, a podcast or a website that treats the central characters as if they were real people and could even include LMB based games like you find on KidsWB.

The sky really is the limit.

Neat idea, YK! Any of these elements could be hyperlinked together.

Superboy #147 first told the LSH origin story, 1968ish.

I'm not familiar with Newgrounds, but I'm open to new ideas.

Welcome aboard the train, Yk.

So which of your characters would you want to see in web comic form first?

Probably Triple G as he's not a derivative character at all..unless you count The Jolly Green Giant as his inspiration, Ho Ho Ho.
(actually it was - as I recall I came up with him during a tag team thread with the TV on in the background airing a commercial about vegetables)

Actually, Bob seems to be the tie that binds the PCG together so he's central to that whole concept. There should be nothing wrong with an openly gay character, as I see it, and I also think that would be an excellent "hook" to catch some web attention.

I'd practically have to reinvent the Yellow Kid from the ground up to keep the Hearst family off my back (which I'm not opposed to at all I'm just being lazy about it).

Bob and the whole mythos I've built around him is entirely my own work, meant to blend in with the LMB and add some depth to Legion World society. For some reason he seems to be a well liked and respected character and I also think he could be amusing graphically since I've always meant for him to be very erotically attractive, very feminine in his mannerisms and attitudes and yet still a powerhouse to be reckoned with.

If you'll look in the Watchmen thread there's a link to a home made commercial for a Saturday morning Watchmen cartoon.

But here's the link to the site itself. Be careful, it's easy to get lost for hours watching animation and playing the games.
http://www.newgrounds.com/
-Contributor made games and flash movies, it's one of the most creative sites on the net-

I like Bob.

I could even see one of the starting characters being mildly ill at ease, even, if that works for you.

I guess the easiest way to change Kent is just to change the first name, as keeping both Kent and the glasses could be inviting trouble. How does "Nick Shakespeare" sound?

Maybe one of Abin's women could round things out?

Oh that definitely works.
One of the fun things about comics is challenging preconceptions. Bob fulfills most people's expectations about "what a manly man should be" except for his sexuality. He's tough, he's self possessed, confident, successful, strong and loving, supportive, he's a winner..it's just that he loves men and that makes some people uncomfortable.

I love turning an idea upside down and rattling cages with it. Not being gay myself is my only obstacle with the character, I don't know for sure that he comes across correctly but I DO try and hopefully LW editors could be there to correct any mistakes I may make along that line.

I think based on your prior track record you'll have little problem... if he ever has a romantic interest, we can get advice from one of the LW gang.

"One of Abin's Women?"

Actually I wanted to start with Ranger, Just Ranger, No Space, Star, Lone-Star or whatever because he's the easiest to write...

But none of my female characters would need re-writing...

So let's use Pagan Lass if this is going to be a Bureau of External Affairs based story or My Whee Fem if it's a Security Office romp.

But on the subject of Bob's sexual orientation, my take is that it shouldn't matter unless there is a natural tie into something else in the plot.

Bob should be Bob (AKA Triple G) [does he have a last name?] a valued member of the PCG and LMBP, Not "Big Gay Al" from South Park... his sexuality shouldn't be more important than his hair or skin color [which I'm assuming will be yellow and green].

Agreed. That was more or less what I was thinking, even if I didn't spell it out.

If we're doing it alt-universe style, and if this is the first meeting, it might be a while before it even comes up at all.

I think Pagan Lass would be a cool addition.

So we have a spellcaster and two tough guys? If Bob takes on the macho-fighter niche, Nick could be more of a tech guy.

Magick, brute force and science is as good a starting dynamic as any.

Maybe Ranger (Lone Star Ranger works for me) could be in the story, too, as a complication (even if 'off-camera').

Maybe Bob and Nick have no idea how or why they got trapped, but PL did - she was trying to find/save Ranger; her own people thought he was dead but she knew better. She was the only one of us to get caught in direct combat, so while Bob and Nick want to find out where they are, who did this to them and how to get home, PL wants to find Ranger (who might not even be in the citadel at all), so even once we've met we have conflicting goals.

Maybe Bob and Nick could have different goals, too: one set on escape, the other on revenge against our captors.

Bob as the "macho-fighter" guy! That's amusing on SO many levels but then again that's the way he's been written for so long so it works.

Yeah, he's naturally green skinned, a human mutant. Hair color and cut varies according to the fashion of the moment. I'll have to brainstorm a little to come up with a different and dynamic super-type name for him and I think I did give him a last name but I'll have to dig through an old thread to find it since I never ever use it. (I've forgotten it)..heck the Macro-Man might work.

Each of the characters we're talking about has extensive back story and support networks already in place. Very easy setups for writers to draw from and that's without (so far) adding Cobalt and Lardy and their own extensive histories.

Built in conflict between a spiritualist and a technophile looks so right.

-btw, should we change the name of this thread or start another one to discuss plots and characters?

If you want Pagan, then I'm assuming we're starting this from a B.E.A. standpoint... So...

Nick Shakespeare is the B.E.A. Diplomat sent to the [Dark Oval, Planet Mongo, Jungles of Amazonia] to negotiate the release of Alicia Quank (AKA Pagan Lass) who was captured while "Trespassing" on the [Royal Hunting Preserve, Castle Mongo Dungeons, Prison Planetoids] and is facing the death penalty for her "crimes."

Bob [Steel, Hardin, Thrash?] (aka Triple G) is Shakespeare's Aide, chosen for both his administrative efficiency and raw power in a pinch.

Shakespeare and Pagan Lass's powers are well known to the [Dark Oval, Mongols, Amazonians] but Triple G is the wild card...

Unfortunately the sneaky, underhanded, [Dark Oval, Mongols, Amazonians] double cross our intrepid heroes right off the bat and all three find themselves confined in a high tech dungeon...

To YK:

It'd be hard to think of Bob as anything but GGG, but I do like the name Macro-Man. Maybe GGG could be more of a nick-name peers have given him?

I suppose Nick's Bureau of External Affairs (tm) should get a more exciting name, too. How about Astral, Stellar and Temporal Reconaissance Agency (A.S.T.R.A.)?

Re: thread name:
You're a mod here... I suggest you change it.

At some point we'll want to shift to either pm's or e-mails as we get into the nitty-gritty of character design, panel design, and dialogue but for right now we should stay here and give others the chance to chime in...

We're going to need artists (Sketch Lad?, Dean?, Joe Boy?) to assist Kent, and a colorist... (Loser, you lurking or do I have to PM you?)

And an Editor...

ha ha
well, YK's name is a derivative of William Randolph Hearst (Billy Randolphs) and Bob's was meant to be similar. I think it was Oral Roberts that I was making fun of. I refuse to call my character Oral Bob though..but as I recall that was the inference back in the day.
Gad, now I have to dig through the "Introduce yourself" thread and see what I originally wrote. You're making me work and think and that's not fair.