Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Spoilers - Issue # 36

Gym'll, as surgeon to the Legion stars, would probably be a well-known figure and recognizable. Maybe he strapped down his third arm under his coat to use the glider wings?

Arrow could have been moving around to avoid detection - he might have scouted out several different positions from which to shoot.

Will Winema die? Was she dead when Jo left her? Surely he wouldn't just have left her in an empty corridor?

That Nightwind, with all that long black hair...you know, someone could pile that up and make a beehive....I hope, if the cadets continue to be used, that we see at least one who's brash and confident. They've been very deferential so far, which makes sense - but there could be one who's a little more sure of him/herself.

Fat Cramer wrote:
Gym'll, as surgeon to the Legion stars, would probably be a well-known figure and recognizable. Maybe he strapped down his third arm under his coat to use the glider wings?

Except that a two-armed Gym'll is shown in an earlier scene (talking to Chuck on LW). If Mr. Wacker is too busy to give artists proper references or catch big gaffs before they go to print, perhaps it's time he asked DC to shell out a few extra bucks for an editorial assistant. There's been too much of this kind of stuff lately.

Re. Wildfire's reference to Livewire's "electrical and chemical powers" -- does this mean Garth is now Livewire + Element Lad + Chemical King? Talk about a composite Legionnaire.

There's something uncomfortably gross about 50-foot Violet at the end, not to mention the fact she's making herself an irresistable target. Why can't I stop nitpicking?

This Dr. Gym'll thing better not be some Mark Waid re-imagining crap. It wouldn't be the fist time he's tried to change the number of arms Gym'll had!

Though Cramey makes a good point on why Gym'll would be known to the villains. He was, after all, just features on Trudy's holo-show on them a few months back, so they'd recognize him if they did their homework.

As far as Arrow still being on the loose: it hasn't been very long since he hit the president. With no technology aiding them, I don't really question that the SP's haven't found him. Right now they would probably be less effective than the average patrol cop from today's era. It seems improbable that they would have had time to even figure out which building the shots came from, and even if they did Arrow is an unknown assailant. Lee Harvey Oswald walked right out of the TSBD past the police. They didn't think to stop him, since his boss vouched for him. Maybe Arrow has acess to his perch through legitimate reasons.

Heck, even if the SP's knew where he was, they'd have to get up to him and I'm not certain they'd go in without first getting access to non-tech weaponry if such was even available. They wouldn't neccesarily rush Arrow in a suicide attack. If Arrow doesn't expect to come back from his mission, or has a reasonable expectation of escaping or being rescued he'd have plenty of time to keep raising hell in the chaos of the scene.

I thought the issue was okay. There were some things that seemed glaringly off to me though:

Jo ignoring the mortally wounded president of the UP who also happens to be his wife's mother in order to see if he might be able to help someone else seemed ludicrous to me.

Chameleon's broken arm was even more ludicrous. The guy's body is completely pliable to the point that he can stretch it out for yards and yards or shrink it down to the size of an insect. If he broke his arm or damaged an organ, he would simply use his power to reshape them.

Speaking of Durlans, we haven't seen Winema's Durlan bodyguard since before she was shot. Makes me wonder if this injured Winema is the Durlan in disguise to throw us and the snipers off. Winema's speech to Jo wouldn't make much sense in this light, but there have been bigger inconsistencies in such stories in the past.

I also found it unbelievable that Persuader, who doesn't acknowledge this woman as his daughter--indeed, he and we only have her word for it--is giving her parental advice about which boys to talk to a few panels after deliberating over stomping her in the face. Ridiculous!

I took Dreamer's scene with the dart as predicting the next Legionnaire to fall. I don't like seeing her used as no more than a puppet though. Hopefully she'll rally and kick some ass later in the story.

Hmm... that doesn't seem off at all to me. He's confused, and trying to figure out what to do. It does make sense that he might find the "it's only one life versus all the other people we could help" initially plausible.


Well, we have seen in the past (the first postboot Fatal Five story) that Cham can be paralyzed and stuck in a certain form if a particular organ is damaged. I assume that's what happened.

I doubt that her assistant/bodyguard/whatever he was actually took her place, but it is disappointing that he seems to have disappeared. One would think he'd be playing a major part in helping to organize things.

But the point is that he didn't stomp her. The "don't speak to that boy" line is a bit silly, but the idea that he actually cares about her in spite of himself is, I think, not implausible. He doesn't want to be a father, but the instincts are taking over.

One would think that the Legionnaires, though, would at least be concerned about catching him. I mean... he just shot one of their mothers. Why isn't Timber Wolf trying to track him down? I understand there's a lot of chaos, but making things secure by getting rid of the sniper seems like an obvious step.

Other than Ultra Boy, who went off to try to help President Wazzo, I don't know who else could've taken Arrow out. I suppose he could've made a sweep of the area with penetra-vision before leaving but I suppose we have to make allowances for the stress of the moment. I don't know what Timber Wolf could've gone on, unless his senses could've somehow backtracked the smell of the rifle shot but we don't really know the extent of his abilities in that area. I think the Legion was just concentrating on keeping the crowd under control. They haven't really had much experience dealing with the citizenry lately so they aren't really playing to their strengh in this story.

If (when) Mark Waid bails out on the Legion, Gail has my vote for replacement. The past two issues have been a whirlwind of adventure and excitement, whatever their minor faults.

On Jo and Winema: I thought it perfectly normal of him to take the "logical" tack -- Winema's too badly injured, we need to focus on those who have a chance. Maybe it's a male thing to try to look at it coldly or rationally. Tinya, of course, didn't see it that way. Even if the President weren't her mother, I still think she would have stuck to her guns. This is the President, after all, the one empowered to make emergency decisions. Her death could plunge the UP into crisis. Of course, Tinya didn't argue that, nor did she need to. Her emotional appeal to Jo won the day, and rightly so.

The scene with Jo and Winema at the hospital was touching -- Winema's last chance to make amends by accepting Jo into her family. To her credit, she also sees things from his point of view: Help other people, not her.

That scene was also chilling, vis-a-vis the doctor's remarks. "Would you want a fallible human being operating on another?" Well, yes, it's worked that way for centuries. The notion that a so-called doctor would lose touch with what being a doctor is all about is frightening.

On Winema's wounds: I, too, wondered why Tinya told her mother to phase. It would make sense if doing so would cause the bullet to pass out of her body. But Winema was shot in the back. The wound in her chest must be an exit wound. (And, if it is an exit wound, it's rather high, considering the angle the bullet entered her.)

Another art gaff: On page 1, Trudy notices the blood stain on Tinya's "immaculate white uniform," except that the stain is not on her uniform. It's on her shoulder. (For that matter, Tinya isn't wearing her Legion uniform, but perhaps Trudy was just shaken.)

On Tinya and Tasmia: Both very strong portrayals this issue. Both took charge while the men were either incapacitated or unsure what to do. There's nothing reverse-sexist in that. I think it fits both of their characters that they would have cool heads and a sense of leadership in a crisis.

On Karate Kid: Very calm and in control, even when facing down an army of convicts in a falling prison. The zen Legionnaire knows when to talk and when to kick ass. The shot of him with his legs stretched apart, kicking villans as he's leaping over the crowd made me think, "Yes! This is the Legion!"

In another KK-oriented homage, the cover scene doesn't actually happen in the story, but it is eerily reminiscent of the cover of ADVENTURE # 358, with Superboy in the Hunter's sight.

On the Peruader: Paternal instincts override psychopathic violence. There is hope for humanity.

On "Mr. Taine": You da man!

The climax of the story is excellent: Trudy's faith in humanity is restored, the calvary (cadets) arrive to help, things are looking up ... and then someone shoots (?) the only real surgeon in the area, and Timber Wolf gets a trident through the chest. Gail raises our hope and then yanks it away, keeping us in suspense for awhile longer. (But only two weeks, thankfully.)

There's so much happening in this issue, it's hard to believe that it featured so few Legionnaires, not the overwhelming crowd scenes we've grown bored with. Every Legionnaire has a purpose and is used to at least some good effect (with the exception of Violet, whose sole contribution is to wake up, and Cham, whose "broken arm" too conveniently keeps him from doing anything.)

I gave up grading issues months ago, but, even with its faults, I'd still give this issue a solid "A" for excellence in story telling.

But the Legionnaires were acting as her bodyguards. Winema even referred to Tinya [et al.] as protecting her last issue. As such, protecting the President would be their first priority, just as our president's security guards' first mission is to protect him.

Sorry, I don't buy it. Persuader is supposed to be a ruthless killer. I refuse to believe he would offer advice as to which boys to talk to to a stranger even if she does claim to be his daughter.

As for the Durlan bodyguard, if he isn't disguised as someone else, he should at least still be around for continuity's sake, which is my biggest reason for suspecting something is up with him.

In the extremely nitpicky department, wasn't the threshold gate upside down?

Well, the "boy" in question is a Legionnaire, one of his sworn enemies. Perhaps that had something to do with it.

Yeah, part of what's going into it is that, while he doesn't want to admit his paternal instincts, he certainly doesn't want to see her becoming close to his hated enemy.

Another thought occurred to me that I forgot to post earlier.


Wouldn't the anti-tech terrorists welcome Dr. Gym'll as an alternative to computer surgeons? It seems to me that he's the kind of throwback that would be heroic to them (if they truly believe their own rhetoric) and that he would be a good man to have around when "the survivors will probably thank us."

Sure, but taking him out might to help further the chaos might be an example of "breaking a few eggs to make an omelette."

The Persuader's connection to Lialla is one he'd see as weakness... a weakness an enemy like Karate Kid would be able to use.

And, being human, he's capable of feeling more than one thing at a time... sure, he's ruthless (as depicted in his remarks about plans to kill KKid if Val's plan works)... that wouldn't make him immune to twinges of paternal reactions.

Also, I think he wants to control Lialla, to dominate her. He rejects her, then pulls her in. I'll bet that's not a new pattern. 'That boy' would be a threat to that pattern.

Best presentation of Persuader ever, character-wise. I would've written his 'real' name, but his characterization has been so negligible over the years, I couldn't remember it. We'll see how the 'Persuader' part of his character is handled if/when he gets his axe back (wonder where it is, by the way?).

Todd

Man, it's fun to read these analysiseseseses.

I think Legion readers are so cool with this stuff, I really do.

Lots to respond to, but it's my birthday today and my husband will have me shot if I spend too much time on message boards today.

So all I can says is, thanks for the comments, both pro and con...quite a few of these will be answered next issue, but a couple are genuine flubs I apologize for on behalf of the whole team. I actually was briefly offered the ongoing Legion thing, and I already miss the characters a lot. Again, my consolation is, having read Mark's upcoming Legion, I know that he's the guy for the job.

Gotta run but more soon! Thanks!

Gail, Flip-flopper Supreme

Happy birthday, Gail, and glad to see you here.

"The Persuader's connection to Lialla is one he'd see as weakness... "

That's how I read it, too, Mystery Lad. I know this seems dumb, but sometimes the characters really do tell you what they're going to say, and a writer ignores them at her peril.

He's a military guy, and she's (if it's true) baggage he wants no part of. Is he being mean to send her off (showing an unselfish side), or is he genuinely trying to deny her?

Guess we'll see.



Gail

Happy Birthday Gail! Thank you for doing an excellent job on the Legion.

Happy Birthday, Gail.

I read #36 last night (after having read all the spoilers). I'm really enjoying this story - but you better not kill off Brin! I don't analyze the details of stories, but I really appreciate a story that is accessible and that lets the characters tell the story. One of my pet peeves is when the whole story is told by some disembodied narrator. Bless you for keeping that device to minimum.

One thing I really liked was the interaction between Jo and Winema. You had both of them go through emotional hula-hoops and still kept it real. I've been waiting a long time to see Winema's soft side.

Enjoy your day off and welcome back (I hope).

Maybe the Persuader does care about his daughter, but denies that part of himself to keep her from becoming like him. I guess that's sort of a cliche but for all we know he snuck into the back row of her 3rd grade dance recital or twisted a few arms to get her into the right schools without her ever being aware. Then again, maybe he wasn't aware of her existence until the day before this story started.

Still, why does she have the Fruity Pebbles on her face?

And happy birthday to you Gail, good to see you around again.

Did it seem odd that Lialla would call KK "Mr. Armorr" instead of Karate Kid? I'm always looking for hidden meaning in the details....

That he calls her Lialla instead of Miss ____ could be attributed to her age. It's not clear just how old she is - 14? old enough to join the Legion? That would be enough to send the old man on a crime spree! Or would he do a Universo-Rond - kidnap her and try to win her over? I guess that's for Imaginary Issue #36-3.

I haven't read it yet, but I have to ask, Gail-- Did you write the captions for the covers of 35 and 36?

Actually, no, I didn't...I imagine it was editor Stephen Wacker!

Back later...

Gail