Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Making the grade

[jimgallagher]
{ Yes, Greybeard [sic]. We all know you hated the TMK era. You don't have to tell us yet again. }

Ah, but this is a relatively new forum, where I haven't gone on at such length for a while on the subject, and it's a notably different "we" reading it all. Why should everyone be deprived of my thoughts? Not keeping such brilliance readily at hand can be sheer masochism, I'd say.

As has always been true, you simply refuse to deal with any counterarguments, preferring -- after you bring up TMK -- that I, alone, simply shut-the-fuck-up instead. It's oddly reassuring to have such points of stability in a turbulent universe {rueful smile}

And as for your major thread point? As with so many other issues, follow the money. Who buys the action figures, of all varieties, two each? every peripheral (with the notable exception of HeroClix)? Not the prepubescents, teens, 20somethings. It's us farts in our 40s and 50s who, generally, have the money to burn. Sixties to Seventies nostalgia. Only now is the window shifting to Seventies to Eighties.

You want to see their using post-Adventure cast? In stories or in merchandise? Wait ten years. It's that simple.

I had a more sympathetic reading of Dirk's story -- that the vanity was a mask for his need to be accepted and loved. It made him lose his center without the Legion as a support system and he clung to one that eventually lead to his moral corruption.


Aw, don't be so hard on Grey -- not everyone here has read his anti-TMK statements as much as some of us and the subject was brought up by someone else. I appreciate that he explains exactly what he doesn't like about TMK and I see where he's coming from. I loved TMK and see things differently than him, but that's natural.

But getting back to the topic...

Catspaw, Computo and Dragonmage have a hard time of it because they were brought in during "Legionnaires" but aside from that, Catspaw didn't seem to have much more of a character than to just be "catty", which isn't very heroic and Computo, while a good character, requires a certain amount of backstory unless you reboot her origin which kinda takes away a lot of what made the character intereting.

I'm really surprised we haven't seen Dawnstar yet though -- she was a pretty high profile member and her visuals are unmistakable and classic.

All the above are certainly valid & interesting possibilities but I believe the reason is the following.

Each creative team sees the Adventure Era (and I would include Action and early SLSH in that era) as the foundation of the Legion mythos. Everything else grows out of it. With each reboot, the new team goes back to the basic story/cast, discards any new additions introduced by prior teams (new characters) and begins to write a new history of their own making.

In some cases, a newer character "fits" in their history (i.e Wildfire) but others don't and are discarded or that character's concept (backstory) is reworked to fit the new storyline they are creating (as I think Gear is intended to be a reworked Computo.)

While we have seen Chuck, Condo, & Tenzil in recent Legion reality, they can hardly be considered Bouncing Boy, Chemical King & Matter Eater Lad. It's simply not the case. They share the same names but that's about it. So in a sense, the creative team has discarded them as well.

As for Quislet, Tellus & Blok, they were introduced as "token" non human legionnaires. Those slots have now been filled by Shikari, Gates, & Sensor.

For all it's negatives, the TMK era (SeaPea, you are correct that this stands for Tom, Mary & Keith ~ also refered to as the 5 Year Gap) was not a reboot, IMHO. Much as I dispised it, it was one possible logical continuation of the LSH story line.

Maybe DC management, editors and writers grew up with Adventure era Legion (I'm not sure of the ages of everybody involved in the book). If so, it could be their reference point, their cornerstone from which all other eras developed - first is best, sort of thing. I've often wondered if our initial exposure to a series becomes the favourite as it recedes into the fog of nostalgia. Perhaps some future DC honcho, whose first Legion story read was about Blok and Mysa, will encourage or mandate that those characters be brought back.

Which doesn't explain why the Subs haven't reappeared....

Not all the Adventure legacies graduated to current continuity intact. Element Lad, Colossal Boy and Projectra are the most notable casualties. Nonetheless, I agree that post-boot creators have displayed strong favoritism towards characters with earlier, more "heroic" origins, and a clear bias against V4 characters who were born in an era now out of favor with TPTB. DnA, for example, have paid homage to the Adventure and Levitz eras in past interviews. They once gave Giffen a few left-handed compliments too, but followed up with the slap that Giffen/V4 "short-changed long term readers by altering things so much".

Given the current creative team's strong traditionalist leanings, it's odd that the V4 character Kent Shakespeare is back as an Academy cadet. He never seemed particularly popular. Maybe he's intended as parademon fodder. It wouldn't surprise me seeing how rudely other V4 characters have been treated post-boot, i.e., Laurel Gand, Dragonimage, Catspaw and Kid Quantum I. All were exclusively V4 characters who made their appearances post-boot, however briefly, but were deep-sixed or sent A.W.O.L. (Note in response to a previous post: Wildfire wasn't TMK. He was created in the 1970s.)

The door is still open for others, however. There's a fair chance we'll see Chuck Taine with powers some day, assuming the creators can figure out a way to maintain his dignity (I hold out no such hope for Matter Eater Lad). If Element Lad remains dead or permanently vilified (sob) there might be an open slot for a Chemical King-type character. Dirk Morgna, the last dormant Adventure-era icon, will be back in action soon. And Blok is believed to be coming back in a somewhat altered form too, isn't he? As for the Levitz's missing heroes, I agree it's just a matter of time. We have the primero Levitz villain, Darkseid, making his debut in the 31st century so maybe the sands are shifting in that direction.

An alien that looks like Tellus has been shown postboot.

A creature that looks like Blok was featured in that elementals story (sorry so vague).

A creature that looks like Catspaw was shown in a holo, along with a creature that looked like Furball, IIRC.

Kono was rebooted as a villain in a minor role.

My point is just that *some* attempts at rebooting non Adventure era characters has been made. True, none of them are Legionnaires in good standing, but at least given some acknowledgment.

He will? How do you know? Spill the beans, Baby.

jim, since this isn't really a spoiler thread, and some people might not want to know more, I sent you a p.m. about what I (and no doubt many others) have heard.