Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Powers, an in-depth discussion

Candle, thanks for the post. Very infomative. I've read the Adventure archives stories but couldn't recall anywhere her powers were used beyond the expectant cloud of darkness/ray. Now that you've brought it up, I remember the mordru story your speaking of. When I first read it in the hardcover archive, I was rather impressed. It's kinda funny how a person gets an idea in their head that "this is how the power worked and that is all it did". You definently opened a door for my thinking which is precisely why I started this thread (along with others), to start thinking beyond my limited scope of memories.

As far as the game goes, once the core rules are written in a have decent way,(combat, advancement, skills, and powers), I'll be spending most of my time reading comics and picking out all of the little details and catologing them. This includes alternative ways powers were used that were overlooked the first time around. It will also include things like "what the eat on Braal for breakfast(if its in the comics), what the Khund uniform looked like, virtually every character, architechture forms for various planets, what sector of space they are in, every detail you could think of. I've done this with a couple of issues already because I got impatient (and it was a lot of fun).

Coming to Legion world and involving myself in these discussions makes the first writing much easier for me. My memory often comes up short on ideas because a person tends to forget most of the details they have read (which is where taking notes and re-reading it 5-10 times comes in). If you have the time and interest, it would be great if you can locate the stories (I know where the Mordru story is) so I can expand her powers. Making the changes is very easy, everythings right here on the computer and I'll just add the new ideas in. Currently they are very weak overall which may be a considerable injustice to Shady. I really wouldn't want to grapple with her over the issue. Being the Talkon VIII champion she is, I suspect I would lose.

That will give me something to read in detail, thank you! Hopefully it isn't overly complex to follow. This will be very helpful, not only in explaining Phantom Girl better but the whole idea of how different dimensions work (and apparently dealing with the Chameleon Boy issue mentioned above). Dimesional travel consistently pops up throughout the Legion comics (the Fatal Five were locked away for a while after Ferro Lad's death as I recall (this would be the story where Shadow Lass was introduced and took them to Talok VIII).

The dimensional article reminded me of an in depth writing I came across on time travel some time ago. Both of these are subjects I have already decided to address from a scientific point of view (providing I can follow it well enough). Eventually, there will be a section (or several sections) going into 30th century science with dimension travel, time travel, and space travel being at the top of the list.

I also checked out the Roll Call link and that went into a lot of detail on Phantom Girl herself. Another very informative article. The writing and research for this game is so much fun.

In the cartoon, Phantom Girl was seen from time to time as being able to "take others 'phantom.'" She could make one or more people as immaterial as she, usually in order to help them escape somewhere.

I don't remember if she was ever able to do that in the comics, but it was cool.

I haven't had time to read that link yet, but I will this afternoon.

PG could very recently, during the WdK 3boot, see into other dimensions, even ones she wasn't from.
She saw and joined Mon-El in the Phantom Zone before Brainy released him.
The Legionnaires were on the Kandorian settled planet with Supergirl.
They took the projector back with them and PG saw Lar. Saturn Girl and she joined mentally and the two entered the zone (or a buffer) to talk with him.

I hope that wasn't addressed.

I remember Invisible Kid entering another dimension when he went invisible, too.

I didn't have time to check those issues for Shady info last night ~ Bible Study night.
I'll check this weekend!

Threeboot Shady appeared to be able to create 'darkforce blasts' in some scenes. She's seen blasting one of Praetor Lemnos' army critters with a black blast from her hand and he's doubling over as if he's been hit by something tangible. [Certainly, that isn't *supposed* to be how her power works, but that's how it was portrayed!] During a Brainy vs. Cos leadership scuffle, she's also shown blocking blasts of energy from Sun Boy with blasts of darkness from her own hand, which suggests that she can negate incoming energy forces, not just light, but also heat.

In Superboy's Legion, they flat-out made her a darkforce manipulator, able to create magical tentacles of hardened darkness to fling people around or whatever, but that was very much an Elseworlds' and not something that any other interpretation of Shady has been able to do, that I know of.

In theory, if she isn't 'creating darkness,' so much as negating light, Shady *should* be able to put a Kryptonian or Daxamite on his butt by negating the internally-stored solar energy that their powers are based upon. She's never been shown doing this, but it would be a logical 'power stunt' for her power, if it's definited as nullifying light. With stored solar energy, Superman and Mon-El are essentially humans in good shape, and her Talokkian strength is greater than human (if not 'can lift tons over her head' like Timber Wolf) and would give her the edge in a major way, as she's also a better trained martial arts combatant than either of them.

I thought I read here (I could be mistaken) that Phantom Girl was shown either making someone else or objects intangible. It seems to be a logical extension of the power and when I write it up it will be included. If we can find a solid comic reference to Tinya performing this maneuver I'll include it on her characte sheet or at least access to it even if its not part of her standard abilities. If we can't find a reference than it will be in the power description but simply beyond her particular talents. Someone else with a similar dematerializing ability might be able to achieve this though.

I'm starting to like this Shadow Lass more and more. Honestly, prefer her being portrayed as being able to do more than block light. Can we find references so I can get a better idea of what she was accomplishing? I know coming up with an issue # or even approx. issue number is tough to do sometimes, but with all this talk about how she's more powerful and versatile than I recall, I really need to study this a bit closer.

On a side note Set, you said: "With stored solar energy, Superman and Mon-El are essentially humans in good shape, and her Talokkian strength is greater than human (if not 'can lift tons over her head' like Timber Wolf) and would give her the edge in a major way, as she's also a better trained martial arts combatant than either of them."

I'm not sure if I understand what your saying when your comparing her to Superman and Mon-El and Timber Wolf in strength. I agree that citizens of Talok VIII are stronger than humans (as a species) and so when I give them a strength score they will be higher, but I'm missing your point in comparing them to beings with super strength. Please help me understand your point. How strong would you say these folks from Talok VIII are? How much could they lift over their head? I do agree that their martial arts training as a species would be better (martial arts or brawling (there's a difference), which is the planetary norm for Talok VIII?

My attribute scale ranges from Subfeeble/0 on up to Infinite/19. The scale hits Typical/4 and Average/5, which is where I see humans being in most stats. I got Superboy at a strength of Super/15, Timber Wolf at a strength of Epic/12 or so. Where would you drop Shadow Lass in? The non-super strength Legionnaires such as Saturn Girl have a Strength of Good/6 to someone like Cosmic Boy who's at Remarkable/8 or Astonishing/9.

If a Human has a Strength of 3-18 in D&D, for instance, Shady would probably have a 20. Timber Wolf, able to lift a couple of tons at least, would probably have a 30 or 40, and Superman/boy would be in the 100s. But Superman *without super-powers* would probably be closer to 16-18, for 'fit human.'

[Using your 1-20 scale, whatever the top non-super-strength men of the Legion, Karate Kid, have for Strength, Shady would be a point higher. So if Val has a 9, Shady would have a 10. She's 'super-strong' by human standards, but not at all 'super-strong' by *superhero* standards.]

And without 'yellow sun energy' inside of him, he's just another dude. *IF* Shady could negate not only the light outside, but also the solar energy stored inside of him (which we've never seen, so this is pure speculation), she'd suck the super-strength (and invulnerability, etc.) right out of him, and be fighting essentially an in-shape human male. Her own Talokkian strength is marginally better than that of a human male, and she's got much more martial arts training than Kal-El, who generally gets by more on his super-powers than on any sort of intensive martial arts training, so, in a field of yellow sun negating 'darkness,' she'd probably thump him soundly.

Which would put a whole new spin on the Shady / Mon-El romance dynamic (since Daxamites are also solar powered), if it was revealed that she was one of the few Legionnaires that could shut him down and spank him like a red-headed stepchild!

Still, this is all speculation. Shady has been shown creating darkness, but not at often depicted as 'negating light.' As with many Legionnaires, her powers aren't always depicted consistently, and if she can 'nullify light,' she should be able to block lasers with one of her darkness fields, which I've *heard* that she's done, but don't recall ever seeing personally.

Ok, now I understand what you were saying. By your thoughts, I'm rating her to low on strength. I don't really recall anywhere in the original series where she was shown beng exceedingly strong (at least prior to issue #225 or so. I was giving her a strength equal to one of the less muscular depicting guys like Element Lad. On the scale I had her at a 7. Keep in mind I'm only talking about her Strength score here. When we get into the martial arts thing she would be quite formidible. Perhaps I need to push her up a couple of points yet.

Typical/4: Average human female
Average/5: Average human male, Saturn Girl, PG
Good/6: Nobody comes to mind at the moment
Excellent/7: Shady
Remarkable/8: Muscular guys like Lightning Lad
Astonishing/9: Cosmic Boy (max human)
Heroic: Low level super strength

As you know nothing is set in stone and it is nice to get opinions and feedback from people who didn't take the 20 year Legion break like I did. My comic reading really is limited to the Adventure Comics and on up to issue #225 or so. After that, it becomes really fragmented.

By the way, there is an in depth rule presentation at the other site if your curious or trying to get a better understanding of what I've done thus far (or totally screwed up depending upon one's point of view).

I'm always appreciative of your thoughts and as I plug away I make a lot of changes that come recommended by Legion fans and other gamers

Set, I'm curious about this conversation we are having about Shadow Lass. In regards to her physical strength, are your estimates Pre-boot, another boot, or sort of a logical blend? I had still thought about coming up with stats for the characters at various stages throughout the comics. That's why I was wondering if your Shady comments were pre-boot or otherwise.

I want to include power use from all re-boots if possible. It makes the ability more flexible and it would be more fun to play. Just because a character in pre-boot was never seen doing "include your neat power move here" it doesn't mean they couldn't do it, but rather it just never came up in the comics we have. Such moves would be one of those "tapping into new areas for the power, here's hoping the die roll favors me:, shake, shake, shake, roll, roll, roll.

"Yes, an 18, add bonuses, let's see I got a 28. Does that succeed?".

I know bupkiss about the Shady(s) and / or Umbra that existed in-between pre-Crisis and the Threeboot. But I do recall Shady bragging about Talokkians being stronger than humans at some point in the pre-Crisis era.

I'm afraid that I've always carried that thought with me, so I've never really considered whether or not Threeboot Shady, or Umbra, or 5YL Shady (if there was a 5YL Shady) had above-average strength or not.

Funny, I wouldn't have put Shady as that strong. Putting her on the D&D scale, where 18 is basically maximum strength for regular humans, and 11 is a guy who maybe works out once a week... I'd put Shady at maybe 15 or 16, which is nothing to sneeze at. What's the basis for having her way above that?

PG: The hosts of this site have done an in-depth analysis of each silver age member's powers. Hope this helps with your project.

http://www.studiosanning.shawbiz.ca/legion_of_super-heroes/membership/monitor_board/index.htm

I read my 6-12 Legion Archives this weekend but I'll have to bring in the numbers of the few stories that had her in them.

There is an issue where ALL of the girls had there powers increased, temporarily.

Besides increasing Shady's powers of darkness to cover HALF the planet and blot out the sun (if you can blot out the sun, I would suspect a WHOLE planet would be a piece of cake!), there's a drawing of her holding Lightning Lad over her head.
lol

In Archives 12, she blocks the lethal radiation from a machine that's set to kill Tyroc's people on that island.
Superboy asks her to do that, so her ability to block many forms of energy, besides light, must have been common knowledge in the Legion ranks.
It was a temporary blocking but enough to give Kal time to remove the device with no one being hurt.

Other then that though, she didn't do much of anything for 6 Archives!
Two stories she's in, aren't even her!

I'll get the exact issue numbers, tonight and try for some of my other issues.
Most before the 5 year gap were stolen a number of years ago, but I have all of everything from there on.

I love Set's idea of her pulling light power out of Kal and Lar!
A translation of Umbra's abilities with fiber optics might hint at that ability.
That issue # will be quick to get!

This is fun.
Thanks.

(EDIT: inaccurate information, I think)

Excellent suggestion jimgallagher, thank you. I shall use this sight to help answer many questions. By the way, I like your statuettes. Very nice!

I got the archives as well so it will be nice to jump straight to the stories as well and pull out some of these power uses. I'll decide which ones she "knows how to do on a ongoing basis" and those which "she tries as sort of a experiment to see if she can do it". The later will explain how some of these mysterious feats that came up only 1-2 in 50 years happened.

I've got an ability called Power Control which will help a character utilize their ability in unusual ways as well as help measure their ability to not ruin things (such as how Superboy manages to hold a glass without shattering it by accident). When I do the subs as characters, they will have a pretty low (comical) rating in Power Control.

I'm sorry Hypno Lad, I have no idea what post or information your referring to. Could you clairify?

I wrote something that I could not actually find support for, and could not delete it - so, settled for an edit.

Ok, so tonight I was working on Ferro Lad. As I was compiling stats for his super-strength it dawned on me that he momentarily concentrates or decides to turn on his super-strength, ok that's fine no problem.

Then again, why can't he just stay in a state of invulnerability and super-strength like Superboy? I don't recall this being addressed. Now if he turns his Invulnerability and Super-Strength on and off, there must be a reason why he can't just always keep it on. Does anybody know why? Not that I've seen this addressed anywhere, but perhaps if he keeps it on to long it drains his power; in other words, a time limit before it becomes an issue for him.

Anybody got a better idea?

Perhaps he never turns it off in battle - he probably stays in fleshy form for comfort, physical interactions, etc.

I like that better than my idea. It keeps the character the same and works fine from a game mechanic point of view. It would possible enter the idea of a psychological/personality preference (weakness) though. I always saw him as someone who likes to take risks/challenges and having it "off" for social interactions make sense as he most likely always had a difficult time fitting in with others. His more human form would make him appear more socially acceptable. In addition it emphasizes the "take a chance when you don't have to" aspect of his character.

Merci beau coup.

Post-boot Ferro got to the point where he HAD to stay in his iron form or die.
He suffered the alienation Hypno Lad talks about.
He also had a difficult time feeling things, something that has been addressed in comics before with the power of invulnerability.

I'll find the reference.


In Adventure 365, her introduction issue, she's not shown to have any extra strength. She has to be carried by Superboy when the other male members of the team don't.

She's also shown to have a true weakness for intense light, saying that it could weaken and even kill her.
She uses her cape for shadow strengh.

In Adventure 366 she's shown to not be very quick, prown to injury and not much of a fighter, although she knocks the Empress out with one punch.

In issue 368, Thora of Talstal increases the girls powers.
I'll write more after school.
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Shadow Lass' first appearance was actually one of my favorite Adventure comics stories, plus I'm a fan of the Fatal Five. I always thought she was very lady like and no tougher than any of the other ladies, but then after Superboy left the Legion things start to get kinda fuzzy from there. Whether or not they changed the character much from the original I can't say. I also liked the backstory in issue #212 as well, that was my first introduction to Shadow Lass. Did she toughen up later in the preboot series? Even though I don't recall her being tougher than anyone else, if there was a girl that should of stood out, I think it should have been her (in strength (somewhat) but fighting ability more so.