Legion World Forums LEGION OUTPOST Mission Monitor Board Fare thee well...

Lance, I looked up Kentucky's law on security deposit. It really didn't say anything about how to go about getting it back or how long til the landlord has to give it back. What I did find basically sayss that the landlord has to put the security deposit in a bank account, and has to sign (along with you) a list of damages to the apartment (or in this case room) before you moved in and a seperate lisst when you moved out. If the landlord does not do this, he/she is not allowed to keeep any of the security deposit.

It wouldn't hurt to put the request for the security deposit in writing and mail the letter with return receipt. If you decide to pursue the matter. You can refer, in the letter, to Revised Kentucky Statutes Annotated Section 383.580

I have to say that the Massachusetts and Ohio statutes regarding security deposits are much clearer than Kentucky's

Thanks again Quis!

Ram Boy, I can look back now and laugh. It wasn't nearly as funny then. And thank you for the kind words!

And that's exactly how Kentucky rednecks like it.

(...from someone who lived 40% of his life in Kentucky....)

lance, it sounds like your former landlords might be distant relatives of my current co-workers. (Some of them, anyway.)

Glad you managed to make your escape, and hope you get your money back.



<span style="font-size: 11px;">Oh, and Ram Boy is definitely correct about Craigslist.</span>

Cleome, if that is true, then I feel very sorry for you. Big hug sweetie, and thanks for reading my story and for the good wishes.

Having nothing in writing may not go against you, they'd still have to come into court and say their side, and typically they admit all you need to win your case-- simply that you did in fact pay a security-- because they don't know better. At that point they have to either prove they did give it back or justify why not.

Then they give reasons why they shouldn't have to give the money back that either don't hold up legally, or would if they documented them but they of course didn't document them because they're not true.

The real problem is whether they have the money to give back at all. You have to ask yourself if it's worth the time in court just to make their lives more miserable. If they don't have the 200, and it sounds likely they don't, it's not worth getting the judgment against them unless it will bring you great satisfaction in and of itself.

Though I suppose it's worth checking if a judgment would allow you to put a lien on the mobile home.

It is worth pressing the issue a bit by letters and phone. Persistence tends to win if anything will, and it's cheaper than court in time and money. If you can stay friendly while doing it, it looks even better if you do eventually decide to go to small claims court, and by then you'll have documents showing you tried, and that they didn't deny your claim. Or if they do deny you ever paid a security (or that they even know you at all) at least you'll know what you're up against.

Another benefit to staying friendly is that if they DO have it, or come across a minor windfall one day, one of them might just be willing to send you the money just to piss off the other. But that won't happen if they're mad at you too.

When I typed that last post I had only read this page. Now that I've noticed there are three pages before this, I'm caught up, and just wanted to add best wishes, and sorry it's been so painful.

Thank you for the good wishes, Shining Son! Actually, I am not sure about their financial situation.

Let's think about this: they have the money to feed at least 4 dogs and 2 cats. I know the female owns the mobile home, and the man owns a house elsewhere. He shut up the house to live with the woman. (I have no idea why they live in the mobile home instead of the house - maybe the guy didn't want animals peeing on his floor?)

The pertinent questions are:

1) Do I really need the money? Well, yes, I do.

2) Could they come up with it if I pushed a little? Yes, I think they could. They have assets and seemed to go out in the evening a lot, and that costs money. I didn't mention this, but while they didn't have cable, they did have a 44" flatscreen tv and a DVD/blu ray player (as well as a lot of DVDs) and a Wii. So yeah, I think they could actually come up with the money without too much trouble.

Conclusion: I think I will try a little gentle pressure, and see what comes of it.

One final point of interest: The lady owned the mobile home, yet when I moved in, I made the check out to the man. I have no idea how that affects things.

Thanks again to everyone for their pleasant thoughts and well wishes. Reading the pleasant responses to my postings has brought me more comfort and pleasure than you can imagine.

Let me just say again, that if you do write to them, make sure you send the letter registered with a return receipt (and keep a copy of the letter you write). This would be your proof that you did send them a letter requesting the security deposit back and that they received the letter.


Them: Gee your honor, we never got a letter requesting the security deposit back.

You: Excuse me your honor, but I have here the return receipt for the letter I sent, showing that they did receive it.

Oh I had no doubt that you need the money, the point was questioning if the effort is worth it if you won't get the money anyway.

I also had no doubt that they spent money all the time, and that was precisely why I was reasonably sure, given everything else you said, that they wouldn't have more than 50 bucks in a bank account ready to be attached legally. I hope you're right that they do actually have enough that its easier to to give you the money than it is to deadbeat you and put up with your reminders and/or legal action and followup collection.

My best guess as to what it means that you made your check out to the man is that they've been through this before (or have been instructed by someone who has) and at least have learned that they should have the business dealings officially and only through the person who doesn't own the mobile home, therefore you can only sue him, and can't take the mobile home from her. If that's the case, the house he shut up is probably worth even less than the mobile home, if anything.**

But that's assuming some intelligence or craftiness. There may be a totally silly reason instead. They may just be nuts. Which means this process could be endlessly frustrating for totally different reasons.

I hope you succeed, whether through a lack of evil on their part, or some uncharacteristic usefulness of the legal system in your neck of the woods. Yeah, I'm a cynic, but always hope right wins out, and toward that end I hope you persevere, but not if it costs more than you win. I can't wish that for you. You've been through enough.

**(Here in NYC, it's typical to talk to your landlord for years and then if you ever have to sue him, you find out that your real landlord is his wife, and everything is in her name. Therefore all the promises he made you were not binding on her.)

My Story

I am sure many of you have wondered just what happened to my marriage. It is a long story. The main reason for my current separation, I suppose, was the breakdown of communication over several years. No one had an affair, there was no domestic violence, and no fighting or screaming. It certainly wouldn't make a good movie-of-the-week.

Here, then, is the story of the failure of my marriage. I hope you learn from it.

I'll give some backgound first. My wife and I married in 1997. I moved to the Cincinnati area and got a job at a radio station here. In 2004 my job was downsized, and I became a stay-at-home dad. I didn't really want to be a stay-at-home dad, but my wife makes very good money and after the costs of day care, it seemed like a reasonable plan. Besides, I wanted my kids to be able to play at home after school and during their days off school. When you also consider the "hassle factor" and how much more flexible it made our schedules, it seemed like a good idea. I still am glad I did it.

Also, my wife has been in therapy for several years for sexual abuse she suffered from a neighbor boy in her youth. I have never really pressed her for much information about these incidents, and she (understandably) didn't volunteer much.

Maybe I should have asked more questions. Perhaps I would have learned how to deal with my wife.

Here is one thing I didn't know how to deal with: sometimes, especially early in our marriage, I would tell my wife very personal things. She would sometimes tell me, essentially, that my feeling were just wrong. Then, to make matters worse (for me) she would call her mom and discuss what I had told her. There are some things that simply aren't meant to be shared! Still, like a coward, I never confronted her about it. I just stopped telling her my secrets.

In the year 2000, my wife became pregnant with our first child. At some point during the pregnacy, she snapped at me. I mean, very bitchy, bite-my-head-off snapped at me. I thought it was just hormones and the pain she is in, so I just took it. Unfortunately, this established a pattern that did not end after she gave birth. Many times over the next several years she would verbally attack me. These incidents were most common when we were around her parents. I really don't understand why this is. She always yearned for her parents approval (especially her father's,) so I suppose putting me down was her way of showing her parents that she cared more about them than me. That's just speculation; I still don't fully understand it.

Another thing about my wife that I just don't get is: she has to be right all of the time. If something goes wrong, she has to have someone to blame. That someone was almost always me. Here is an example:

Several years ago there was at least three incidents where clothes were getting lost. My wife, on each occasion, absolutely bit my head off. She would yell at me, saying things like: "You're the one doing the laundry! How can you be losing all these clothes!" In each case, I didn't know where the missing clothes were. It could have been my fault, so I just tried to find them. (My wife also looked for them; she just had to have someone to blame first.) The thing is, in each case, my wife was the one losing the clothes. This stands to reason, I suppose; I am fairly organized, while my wife is a slob. Still, even after each time when it was discovered that my wife was the culprit, I held my peace.

As you can imagine, these incidents made me feel awful. I never yelled back at her, though. I guess I should have, even though I have never been very confrontational. I never wanted to fight, and in 14 years of marriage, I can't say my wife and I ever had a fight. I did get very angry about it, though. I never showed her the anger - I just suppressed it. Of course, this had consequences.

Several years ago, I started having what I called anxiety attacks. (They weren't.) The best way I can describe them is this: Imagine you are sitting somewhere quiet. Everything is calm and serene, and you close your eyes. Then, someone sneaks up on you with a baseball bat. They start to swing the bat directly at your face. When the bat is perhaps a foot from your face, you open your eyes. What kind of reaction do you have? You yell, and put your hands to your head, of course. That is exactly what was happening to me. It would sometimes happen several times in a day. Other times, I would go several days without such an incident. These episodes would happen only when I was feeling frustrated or angry.

My wife suggested on several occasions that I seek therapy for my problem. I refused each time. Honestly, I had a very low opinion of therapy. I thought therapists were just quacks who thought everyone needed therapy so they could get a paycheck. Or maybe I was just too proud to admit that I needed help with a problem. (I have since sought therapy for my problem - I hold therapy in much higher regard now.)

Over the past few years, my wife and I both knew that our marriage was not in good shape. She suggested that we seek marriage counseling. I really didn't want to do it, because of my views on therapy. I did tell her, though, that if she set up the marriage counciling that I would go. She knew I didn't want to go, though, so she never set it up.

What I didn't realize was how much anxiety I was causing my three children. These episodes were causing them much distress, and I couldn't see it. Everyone in my home was becoming more and more unhappy. In fact, these episodes weren't even the worst part. On one occasion, I became so angry I slammed down a chair and broke it. Another time I hit a wall hard enough to leave a dent in the drywall. On another occasion during one of my "attacks" I yelled the phrase "fucking whore!" I had no idea why I was yelling such an expletive. I avoid using such language because...well, I just don't use it. Typically. Clearly (in hindsight) I was becoming more and more emotionally disturbed. I needed help, but couldn't see it.

Just so you know, I never once hurt my wife or kids physically, or even threatened to.

Then came Halloween 2011. My wife took the kids trick-or-treating, and I sat outside our home giving out candy. (We live in the suburbs and between 100 and 150 kids stop by on Halloween. One of those kids was a young girl, perhaps 14 years old, wearing a Robin costume. (as in Batman and) Later that night, I made a very crude joke right here on Legion World about her. I typically don't go for locker room humor, but for the sake of making a joke, this time I did. The comment was vulgar and tasteless and frankly, not even funny. (Don't look for it - I have since deleted it.) The problem was, at some point I left this comment up on our computer at home, and my wife saw it. She then looked through the history folder on our computer, and found out that I would occasionally wisit a pornographic web site. (This was straight adult porn, by the way, not kiddie or gay porn.) I fully realize how irresponsible this was; any of our kids could have easily found it. I am still quite ashamed of this.

So, the stage is set. On Thursday, November 10th, my wife didn't seem to be getting ready for work very quickly. I asked her if she was going to work from home that day, and she said she was thinking about it. That wasn't unusual, so I though nothing of it. A few hours later, there was a knock at the door. It was my wife's parents. They live a little over 2 hours away in Columbus, so this came as quite a surprise. Well, it was a surprise to me, anyway. I was putting away laundry, and my wife came to talk to me. She said she needed a break. I didn't really know what was going on. At some point she said she could tell the kids I was going to stay with my dad for a few days. A few days. After some discussion, I said fine. I packed a bag (enough for a few days) and I left. I thought it was just for a few days. I had no idea when I left that day that I might be leaving for good.

I went to a fairly cheap hotel. The next day, my kids called me. My 7-yr-old daughter told me that she was going to get to go to day care. (what the?!) After I had spoken with my children, my wife talked to me. She said the reason everything happened so suddenly was that her therapist told her that I had to leave the home or she (her therapist) would have to report me to Child Protective Services. (This was because I had made a sexual joke about a 14-yr-old girl.) As you can imagine, I was devastated.

So now we are separated. I have sought therapy for my issues. My therapist and I have had some nice sessions. My so-called anxiety attacks were caused by a number of things:

1) My repressed anger
2) I had no social activities outside the home. I felt so trapped.
3) I felt like this was how my life was, and was always going to be. It was never going to get better, and I felt like my life was over.

I was sinking deeper and deeper into a state of depression, which I seem to have pulled out of. That's what my therapist said, anyway. I didn't feel depressed, but then, I don't seem to know much about emotional issues.

So what next? Well, I had to find a job, fast. I now have a job (which I hate) and am looking for a better one. I also found a therapist to help me figure out my issues. The therapy was eye-opening and I wish I could afford to keep going, but I just can't right now. I started a regime of self-improvement, including working out and going to church. Still, every time I go to the house to visit, my wife treats me like I have bubonic plague. I really don't understand it at all.

I also had a nice long talk with Child Protective Services. It turns out the therapist's threat is essentially empty. CPS works just like you would think - if there is an allegation of abuse, they investigate. If circumstances warrent, a child can be removed from the home. In our case, though, there wasn't even an allegation of abuse, since I had doen nothing illegal. This means CPS would...do nothing. (I wish I knew more about the law - I would love to sue the therapist.)

So..what do I think now? Sometimes I think my wife was entirely justified in asking me to leave the home. Other times, I wish she had just set up therapy for me and told me if I didn't go I would have to leave. That's what I would have done, anyway. I miss my kids terribly. I miss my wife, too. I still love her, even though she has her flaws. Who doesn't?

I feel much better about myself as a person now. This is due to one thing - I am confronting my issues, not pretending they don't exist.

Still, I am extremely lonely. I hate just about every aspect of my life now, and I don't know what to do about it, other than to take things a day at a time and keep trying to improve my life.

Now, pay attention here. If you are in a relationship, tell them how you feel. This is something most grade-schoolers figure out. I never got it, though. And I am an object lesson of what happens when you don't.

I don't know what to say, lance. I applaud the courage it took to post this. I also applaud your courage in admitting your own mistakes and making positive changes to correct them. I hope your wife continues to do the same.

Sounds like you're on your way to a much better life. Wish the road were easier, but there you are.

Thank you for sharing this with us Lance, it must have difficult to put so much of yourself down on page, and even harder to actually push that reply button.
Don't let yourself get too lonely, we're here on the board for you and if you need to hear a friendly voice you have some of our phone numbers.

I really hate that after all this you're in a job you hate, looking for a new one in the worst economy since the Great Depression, so I'm just going to go right ahead and point out that there's such a thing as alimony, and it would seem she owes you some. I'm sorry to suggest that if you're still looking to reconcile.

At the very least, while you're still married, you might be covered for therapy under her medical insurance.

SS, Kentucky does have alimony, only it is called maintenance. Of course, it also has child support. Honestly, if I end up getting divorced, I have no idea what kind of settlement/payments I am looking at. I need to talk to a lawyer who specializes in family law, but there is just no way I can afford that right now.

The toughest thing right now is the loneliness. I work second shift, and there aren't too may activites that start at midnight. This also means I only get to see the kids on weekends, since they are in bed by the time I get off work.

Shift work makes most people depressed and lonely, hope you get away from that soon.

I don't see how you could be required to pay child support if you were not the provider in the marriage. Not that the law or the judge is guaranteed to make any sense.

You might look around for some charity or government agency that offers a free social worker, they are supposed to be able to find help for people that's either free or low-cost.

Being a man you probably would like to avoid charity, but it wouldn't do anyone any good to turn down help that can put you in a position to be a happy family member again, whatever form your family is taking. And once you're back on your feet you can always pay it forward.

BTW, why does it say Cincinnati at the bottom of your post?

yow! best wishes. I have had my share of depression issues (and still do), and just sharing them, talking about them, can be the hardest part. So give yourself credit for that.

I have no experience with the specifics you describe (save for times of work with no meaningful socializing), so I will not pretend to be able to chime in there, except to suggest a support group or even a MeetUp group for socialization.

Best of fortunes. It may well be a hard road ahead, but you've begun the journey, and just starting to move can be the most daunting.

Come to think of it, maybe Family Court has a social worker available, or can at least point you to one.

Lance. Amigo, you are a brave person, believe it or not. Lots of people in your situation just give up and give in. It sounds like the best thing that could have happened to you, I have to say. You've started a program to help yourself. Now, get out of the apt/house/ whatever and meet people. Shift work makes it difficult, but there are still many things and places you can go. If you are in a city, start going to museums. Find charity work to do. Anything to get out and meet people. find a group therapy session like AA if you can to help yourself. Heck, if you have a degree, look around at some local colleges and see about becoming an instructor in your field.

And stay in touch here. The internet puts up a certain amount of space and disembodiment, but this place has had a certain something for years.

Oh, and get a punching bag and some gloves. You can get them pretty cheap at places like kmart. It gives you a great outlet to vent, provides some excercise, increases endorphins which elevates your mood, and gives a workout that can get you into shape. (Ladies like that) But, most importantly, stop riding the guilt train.

everybody. And I mean everybody, has inappropriate thoughts or ideas at some point in life. What matters is the actions you take. A crude joke does not a monster make. acting on it would, and it sounds like that is not the case. Stop beating yourself up, sounds like there are plenty of other people in life that are willing to do it. It's an old saying, but it's true. No one else is gonna like or respect you until you like and respect you ( on a deeply personal leveland intimate level. But we all like you here).

Hardest lesson in life I ever learned was not feeling guilty for things I had not deserved to feel guilty over. But, you have to do just that.

Good luck and keep in touch here.

Lance,

As far as child support goes, basically both you and your wife fill out income statements. That gives your adjusted monthly combined income. From that, it is determined what the monthly child support is based on the table. That amount is then split between you and your wife in proportion to your incomes. So, for example, if you and your wife made an adjusted monthly income of $5,000.00, the child support for all three kids would be $1,257.00 a month. Now say of that $5k, you contribute $2k & your wife contributes $3k, Then your wife would have to pay 60% of the child support & you would have to pay 40%. Here is a link to the Kentucky statute http://www.lrc.ky.gov/KRS/403-00/212.PDF

If you are not already doing so, I would suggest sending some money for the kids before there is a court order. Keep receipts of everything you do buy for your kids.

There is free legal info on the web. It should give you a rough idea about your rights and responsibilities. The best thing is if you and your wife can reach your own agreement. Give yourself and her sometime before you do any legal stuff, if possible.

Good luck with the search for a better job. I'm in job search mode right now. It's tough, frustrating, & depressing. I know lots of therapists offer sliding scales. You might also want to look into whether Kentucky offers medical insurance and if you qualify.

Lance, you sound like you're able to see your situation with clearer eyes, and that's a great start. I've walked with several friends in similar situations, and I can attest that things can get better than you might now even imagine. It won't be quick, and there will ups and downs, but it will happen.

You mentioned going to church. I hope it's one where the folks know the experience of grace and can give you the space and support you need to heal. There may be a group of guys there who can look out for you, handle your emotional spins, and won't let you wallow in self-pity. If you don't find that at your church, just keep looking around like the wise friends above have recommended. Help can come from surprising places.

We're on your side.

Thank you. Thank all of you for reading my very long post and for your input. I know this has to be the most depressing thread on Legion World, but to be honest, you guys are some of the closest friends I have. I have a few friends, but I don't get to see them very much. Not to sound needy, but I look forward to reading posts to my comments so very much. I really appreciate it.

Actually, it was very easy to post my troubles. I have accepted responsibility for my part in the breakdown of my marriage. I don't think my wife has. I think it is more important for her to have someone to blame for her problems than it is to try to find a solution - especially if finding the solution means she might have to blame herself for something. Me, I am trying to move forward and make a better life for myself.

I actually got a phone call today about a job. It would be working in a hotel, but I have done that before and would like it better than the job I have now. We'll see what happens.

SS, it says Cincinnati at the bottom of the page because I live just a few miles from there, just across the river in Kentucky.


Rick, I am not one to give in. I like the punching bag idea. I have, though, been regularly working out at the Y at least 3 times a week. Also, I don't feel guilty. I am getting more and more angry over the situation, though, which is why I felt the need to "talk" about it here.

LT, the pastor of the church has become almost a friend. We seem to get along great. He has met with me onseveral occasions to talk. And yes, there are some good people there. There is one very sweet and pretty lady who is so nice to me. Now, she is married (in her mid 30s I guess) and has several kids, but still, very cute and so nice to me. I found out a few days ago she used to be a Ben-Gal - that's a Cincinnati Bengals cheerleader. Ya never know about people.

Also, yes, I think I am seeing the situation clearly. Actually, I think I am the only one around who even undertands the problems between my wife and me. I don't know if that is clarity or conceit.

Quis, I was a stay-at-home dad for seven years. My wife makes about $80,000 a year. If I make $25,000 this year I will be lucky. I doubt if I would (or could) pay much child support. I just want my life back. By the way, Quis, since I am not living at the house (which is in both our names) is there any kind of time limit where the house would just revert to her since I am not in residence? Thanks!

I really wish you guys could come over and help me kill a case of beer or two. Or three.

Lance,

I'm glad to hear things are looking up, and I'm confident they will continue to get better. Thanks for sharing with us; it means a lot that you trust us with such intimate details of your life.

Re your wife and kids, I applaud how you still love and care for them despite everything. Have you told your wife all about this? Really, if she knew how awful you felt in the past she'd think twice about treating you like you had the plague!

You should congratulate yourself for never hurting or threatening your family even while you had those anxiety attacks. It can be so easy to lose control during one.

You're a strong man, lance. Keep it up, we'll cheer you on!

^okay, I posted the above before I read your latest post, so I shall post a postscript!

Lance, I've been in situations before where I've been totally angry because the other party/parties don't seem to be accepting any responsibility for their actions. It can be infuriating! In one instance my anger over that lasted almost a year.

I wonder how much of your anger at the situation is because of that. Do you imagine you'll get a chance to tell her all about it now? I think that even if she doesn't wise up, it may make you feel better to have tried. Then again, sometimes just writing a letter (and not sending it) can help.

Would love to share a beer with you too - this is the sort of thing that's great to discuss with a group of buddies over alcohol (and I know it's rare outside the Philippines, but with lots of nachos and meat!)