Legion World Forums LEGION OUTPOST Mission Monitor Board Coming Out

I am coming out. I know you are probably saying “Gee Quislet, Esq, we know that you are as queer as a three dollar bill.” First, stop talking with that royal we crap. Second, I’m not talking about sexual orientation. So, no sudden lady love on my part either. I am coming out as ....... an Atheist! Dat-Dah-Dum!

I am not sure if atheist is the right term for me. (Humanist? Free Thinker?) I feel that atheist implies a 100% certainty that God does not exist and I would say that while I don’t have much doubt (about 99.99% certainty) I know that I could be wrong. Plus it would be emotionally reassuring to know that there was an omnipotent, omniscient being that loved me unconditionally and was concerned for my wellbeing. But rationally, I am forced to say it is otherwise.

It was a while coming though. I was raised Catholic. Did the Holy Communion, confession, confirmation, and was even a reader during mass. Then when I came out to myself (sexual orientation wise) I stopped going to mass. Although I am not sure if being gay was the only reason I stopped going to mass. I would say that I believed in God, just not sold on organized religion. But for the past couple of years I have been thinking about the existence of God. What got it for me that there is no all-loving God is the fact that in a natural disaster some people live and some don’t or that a little baby can be born with some horrible genetic defect and lives only for a couple of months.

To those of you who believe, I can appreciate your faith, especially if it brings you joy, completeness, and a sense of community.

So why am I telling you all this? I think those who are gay can understand the need to express who you are. My non-belief is a part of who I am.

You are the first people I have told this to. I'm not sure if I will be telling my family (they are religious), but I think they kind of know already.

I can understand. I came out of the closet in January.

To be quiet honest, if you're an atheist, there's nothing wrong with it.

Actually, I too don't see myself as Catholic but I believe in God and Jesus.

My brother's an atheist for the reason that the notion of someone judging whether or not you get paradise or damnation after you die can really upset someone.

Agnostic here.

Too much about organized religion and the biblical practices of the majority fly in the face of what I believe to be reasonable, rational or moral. Questions about a creator always lead to further questions, for me, like "Yeah, but who/what created the creator?"

I still find it hard to let go of spirituality in terms of belief in a higher purpose, soul, after life of some kind, or point of existence. Especially with the recent loss of my partner. I cling tightly to the concept that our time together had a greater meaning and that we will be together - on some level - at some time again. I just don't know what that's going to look like. I don't know that I'm meant to know right now. I hope to be content to keep questioning and searching....

Heavy topic, Quis. Congrats on coming out.

Quislet, I think your beliefs come pretty close to my own. I haven't been able to believe in God in any traditional religious sense (Christian, Jewish, Muslim etc.) since childhood. It just doesn't jibe up any rational way in my mind.

It's not so much the existence of pain and suffering (ie natural disasters, disease, war) that led me to feel this way. I think if there were a God, His reasoning in such matters would be way beyond us anyway. I think people who question why a perfect God would create such an imperfect universe are missing the point. The real question is why would a "perfect" God create a universe at all?

I guess, for me, the real reason not to believe is simply the complete absence of proof. Maybe if I had one of the religious experiences other people say they've had I'd feel differently. But until then...

Also I'd point out there's a *big* difference between athiesim and agnosticism. Athiesim is the assertion that there is no God. Agnosticism is saying that we don't know, that there isn't enough info to say either way. Remember, any scientist worth their salt will always tell you the NON-existence of God can't really be proven.

My best wishes "coming out" to your family. My mother, who is Christian Reformed, came to terms long ago regarding my sexuality. She does consider homosexuality a sin, as the Bible says it is one. But she points out that the Bible also says fornication, gluttony, drunkenness, and many other things are also sins. So she doesn't see why she ( or society) should condemn me any more than it does people who engage in premarital sex, overeating, drug abuse, etc.

For better or worse, I choose to keep my religious beliefs (or lack thereof) from her because I actually think she would have a much harder time accepting that than my sexuality.

Honestly, Quis, I thought you had come out as an atheist a long time ago.

Interestingly, I also left the Roman Catholic Church around the same time that I came to terms with being a gay man. I found my home in the Episcopal Church, which, twenty years and some change later, it still is. It's part of who I am and, honestly, I don't think I'd be happy anywhere else.

But that's me.

I'm far more concerned with a person's actions than their beliefs. Are you a kind person? Are you a caring person? Are you an honest person? Are you a respectful person? I've known you online for almost seven years and have met you in person twice and can say without reservation that the answer is "yes".

Families can be very weird when it comes to religion. My father, with whom I am not close, had more issues with my becoming Episcopalian than he did with my being gay. Tread lightly there, but, as you've said, they probably know.

Hang in there. It sounds like you've found the right place for you to be.

I am a firm believer in God, but I do ask myself the hard questions, some of which have already been mentioned here.

1) Why bother? Why would God bother to create mankind?

2) Where did evil come from? If God is the Creator, why did He allow evil to exist?

3) Why would God create a world, where, if I understand the Bible correctly, most of the people will end up in hell?

Of course, on the other end, if there is no God...

1) How did life start? Something else else alive arose from a primordial soup and was able to maintain its existence, and even reproduce? That sounds so silly to me.

I do think about things. What does it mean to be good? Is there such a thing as good?

I wish I had all the answers. I would write a book and get really rich and then I could be as lazy and obnoxious as I dream of being.

[snip]

Quis, We (I can't stop) cool!

Congratulations, Sarky!

Gay. Atheist. How much more "out" you got coming, Quis? ;-)

Seriously, I believe in God. Can we still be friends?

Thanks for being you with us.

Heh!

Many people seem to assume I am an atheist, but I actually do not think of myself as one. I am more of a passive pantheist, maybe even an animist. I am not an active believer per se; I see it more as a way of experience rather than outright belief. Belief, to me, seems rather antithetical to spirituality.

That said, I have respect for any path that is willing to respect others.

I think it really says something about the quality of people on this board that -

a. We are the first people Quis has come out to
b. We've had almost a full page of posts from all kinds of faiths and there hasn't been a flamewar

And seeing as we are all "coming out"....
I was raised Roman Catholic but by early teens realized that wasn't for me. While in art school, I took Religion as an elective and after a few semesters of learning other faiths, discovered that I am a Pagan.
My practice and faith lapsed for many years but I have recently rediscovered it.

Personally, I think humanist is a preferable term. My DH is an ex-Catholic humanist and, although he has come out as well, he keeps his mouth shut in certain circles rather than invite abuse. Some people, it's just not possible to express your views without invoking ire.

I was raised as a Protestant, and a denomination that was wishy-washy enough to make me a solid agnostic.

Who were the first recorded atheists? I figure humanist is a more modern term. Were there ancient Egyptian atheists, Greek or Roman non-believers?

I'm an atheist too ...

Gay Atheist Republican?!

And yet you never tried the secret atheist handshake, did you?

Visibility was also one of the reasons for my coming out.

In my experience, the teachings of Jesus have been far, far easier to follow since I gave up on churches, with their constant pressure to engage in un-Christ-like behaviors (such as judging others).

The carrot (of heaven) and stick (of hell) don't much concern me. I have no power over such things, so I just try to live my life as best I
can.

My best friend is also an ex-Roman Catholic, which makes me wonder if raising a child in that particular faith is almost predestined to produce another ex-Catholic...

Perhaps it's a wiser choice to allow young people to seek out their own faith in their 'searching years.' Perhaps, as with almost everything else in this world, there's no one right answer that works for everyone.

How could we not be friends? We both love the Legion.

Well, now that you've mentioned it..... Nah! I'm as Republican as Abraham Lincoln. What? Abraham Lincoln was the first Republican president? You don't say. OK I'm as Republican as Theodore Roosevelt. Him too? Yeesh! Are there any non-Republican Presidents? Don't tell me I have to compare myself to Hitler. How about Gandhi? Was he a Republican?

As for my third coming out secret. In a previous life, I was Dr. Mayavale.

I do appreciate all the responses. Viridis, the main reason I felt comfortable "coming out" here was because I knew there would be no flamewar.

Rockhopper Lad, knowing how involved you are with your church, I was a little anxious about how you would feel. Not that I thought you would start calling me an infidel and shun me, but I <strike>think</strike> know that some people of faith are uncomfortable with non-believers.

So, that is both you and your brother. Do your parents have a perfect record or did they end up with at least one heterosexual?

I'm not one of them.

What you said.

I was 99.99% sure you weren't.

It does strike me that such people must not have strong faith if knowing that thre is someone who believes differently is that upsetting to them.

It seems to me that many pre-monotheist paths' worldviews are so intertwined in daily life that belief-systems were not as separate and separable; monotheism seems more inclined towards an all-or-nothing approach (by which I intend no disrespect) any more than we in our society would feel a need to disbelieve in adjectives based on their etymology.

That is not to say that earlier civilizations' gods are more real (or 'real') than any monotheistic god, just that as concepts they are more immeshed and interwoven with everyday life. With Plato we start to see some more concrete delineation of terminology and the beginning of a god-concept that stands on its own, but I'd be hesitant to say this caught on as a widespread phenomenon even in his own times.

Even so, I would suggest that the idea of a concrete/discrete god separable and distinct from the world would need to catch on and become attached to authority in order for it to become central enough to be outright rejected as a concept.