Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Let's talk about LSH #15 (Abundant spoilers)

I can't believe someone (You forgive me for this wamu2) can say something like this in 2006:
" somebody, please tell me that is not the costume Saturn Girl wore on a regular basis. There is a fine line between sexy and breaking public decency laws and Saturn Girl is very much on the other side. underwear only is fine for the home, not on important missions with your team"
Or the puritanism wave is more and more big in America.
It's for me more horrible the censura, the witch hunt.
One girl with a sexy costume can't scared to anyone. It's the future! Not the past!
Or we must burn Vampirella, Projectra, Lady Death, Purgatori and company?

This analysis of the Legion opens a whole can of worms. So if the founders were the "mind" what Freudian appendages are the rest of the Legion. Ultra boy I got pinned down.

oh no. I am not suggesting we ban and/or burn the above mentioned ladies. it's just that it's difficult to take the character seriously when attired in lounge wear.

I suppose a happy medium would be between Saturn Girl this issue and the rather drab triplicate girl costume of this current team. and what do you get Shadow Lass' outfit.

I thought it was a wasted issue. Why didn't they just skip to the Supergirl story? The art was pretty bad too, IMHO.

Element Lad changing the Flashes to air and back again? I realize this was just a kid telling a story and he probably didn't get E Lad's powers right, but even so, why not just have him change the bubbles to air?

And if Triplicate Girl awoke on the devastated Cargg as a teenager and she's still a teenager, how can it have happened "so long ago that nobody remembers who was the first" of her bodies? It couldn't have been more than a few years ago. Does she have early onset Alzheimer's?

If Colossal Boy's whole race can shrink and they're from Earth how is that different from a normal sized race who can grow? and it seems very implausible that Gim and his bro live at giant size in a giant sized apt. if they can shrink to normal. Where are they getting their giant furniture, clothing, dishes, etc? and wouldn't it be dangerous for them to step outside? What if they squish somebody? And Metropolis is obviously an overcrowded highly congested city. Why would they allow these two a giant apt. if they could simply shrink to normal size and live like everyone else? Even if it were allowed, it would be prohbitively expensive. Where are 2 teenagers getting the money for this huge house or apt.?

And the "eat it grandpa" motto really needs to disappear. I thought it already had. Being disrespectful is not the same thing as being progressive or revolutionary. It's just rude.

I thought this issue was interesting . The first "story" that included Bouncing Boy said it was a tale about the founding members. That made me think that if the Legion has been around for a while, Bouncing Boy may actually exist in this reality and was a founding member. Maybe he's retired or on leave. These stories about current legion members wouldn't have come from comic books. They would be stories passed around by the teenagers.

These stories also all involved time travel, some to the past. This makes me think that perhaps they involved members of the Legion who have yet to join, but whose exploits in the time stream are now part of legend. That would explain how the kids know about these legionnaires, even though they haven't joined yet. This gives me hope that one day we'll see our favorite legionaires. I'm still hoping for Bouncing Boy, Matter Eater Lad, Dawnstar, and the rest.

I hated this issue. It took everything I have mildly disliked about Waids run and ampped it up to ten. I hated seeing the classic characters being written like they were here since all of them sounded so wrong. This book has been treading water with me since the first 6 issues, and only has gotten a reprive because of my love for the Legion. The whole issue was just pointless. I am even getting sick fo the letterpage stuff. I would much rather see some stories about team members than what he has been doing with his joke page.

I am giving Waid and crew 2 more issue. Honestly before I realized this issue was not written by Waid I was going to drop the book with this issue since I truly thought it was just that bad. I am dearly hoping that with the one year latter jump Wiad tones the underagers stuff WAY down and just gets on to telling some good stories, but I am kinda afraid that he is going to preach off that praticular soapbox until the very end.

And Moore should never be allowed anywhere near the Legion again.

RE: Saturn Girl's 70's Costume

Did it remind anybody else of Storm's original costume? That's probably why I'm so desensitized...

Storm was an unused Legion design that Cockrum took with him to Marvel, wasn't she?

Well, I for one *loved* the issue! I don't think anyone was seriously expecting the cover three to be around permanently, and this was kind of the obvious way to work in appearances of past versions of the Legion.

I think I enjoyed seeing Quislet more than any of the other past Legionnaires, though his dialogue seemed a bit off. The attitude was spot on, however.

I see this issue really as a prelude to the upcoming Supergirl story. It does a nice job of delving deeper into the whole "20th century heroes are just stories" idea, right before they suddenly have a living story right in their midst. Plus you've got the letter page which serves as a nice membership round up for new readers.

Cockrum combined a couple of unused Legion designs to create Storm -- a male weather-controller named Typhoon and a female character I can't recall off-hand.

I am pretty sure the pink bikini was the first of a series of Legion costume designs submitted by readers of the time. It may be the only one to have survived very long. Presumably, someone LIKED it (Cockrum, Murray Boltinoff?) or it would have been changed in the 1970s Cockrum/Grell revamp. As I recall, it debuted in the last original Legion story until the group popped up in Superboy, so it's not like it had a long history and tradition BEFORE Cockrum/Grell. Perhaps Cockrum DID like it and took some inspiration from it for later character designs. It would be neat if someone would ask him about this.

As a side note, it's quite a hoot now to have Legion fans young enough to not know about the pink bikini. It IS hard to reconcile that the same Saturn Girl in the Adventure stories (or the second Levitz run) could be comfortable wearing the pink bikini. Also, it is telling that, as us --mature-- Legion fans reminisce about those swinging 70s outfits, we tend to bring up Projectra and Shadow Lass much more often than Saturn Girl. Perhaps her telepathic abilities are affecting us...

There's a lot of reminiscing about Cosmic Boy's Chippendale's costume, too. Can you imagine the current Cos arguing with the current Brainy while wearing his magnetic man-kini?

The main story did little for me. I assume it helps set the stage for the upcoming Supergirl arc. I didn't hate it, I just felt that the issue was without a real LSH story.

I also think that the use of the three Legionnaires on the cover was sort of cheap. I don't have any great feelings toward them, but I understand how many people could. I would be disappointed to see Element Lad in his "crotch-arrow" costume on the cover if he were used so minimally in a story.

I love the tidbits that were mentioned in the letter column, but would have preferred that they had been revealed in a more continuity-oriented context -- someone rifling through Sun Boy's quarters finding notes to his parents or something.

Shirtless, hairless naked Brin: I have nothing to say about that: just like typing "Shirtless, hairless naked Brin."

see you next month.

I liked Stuart Moore's story for what it tells us about story-telling. In all three stories told by the kids, the Legionnaires go back in time to meet or help their 20th century inspirations. This makes the Legionnaires themselves somewhat mythical for the non-team members. Characters unknown to some of the kids are added - along the lines of Shrinking Violet: the Legion has become a legend in its own time.

Some of the facts are garbled, as tends to happen with oral communication. Does this suggest that no one is compiling an official, written record of Legion exploits? The stories are adapted to the desires of the teller and listener: all three adventures are recast in terms of underagers vs. adults, with the underagers saving the day.

The one thing I found a bit odd was at the very end. "The adults are at the gate": with all the destruction caused by Elysion, you'd think the adults had other things on their minds than coming to confront some kids in a park. Perhaps the adults are coming to help them. In a disaster of the magnitude of wrecking (part of)Metropolis, would young people and adults still be at each others' throats? (I could be just showing my age, but my reaction is Foolish children! Forget this "Eat it Grandpa" nonsense! We've got a crisis here and now. Lend a hand.)

I honestly wish we knew how this overbearing system was created.

The "adults" aren't the problem. The problem is the moronic nature of worrying about kids in a park (in a super-safe environment) when the planet nearly got blown up.

I think "the adults are at the gates" was meant figuratively, not that the adults were literally encroaching on the park gates.

It's a paraphrase from the quote "The enemy is at the gates," from somewhere. Shakespeare maybe?

In other words, "Dav Hunter" was rallying the troops with a battlecry, not saying that the adults were actually attacking the gates of the park.

Wow. I disliked this issue on so many levels. The biggest was that it felt as if they (the creators) were ridiculing the past Legion stories. And that the reason the "voices" seemed off is because they didn't care to get it right. I definitely hated this issue.

Put me in the 'really liked' it camp. Since I only got into the Legion with Legion Lost I have no preciousness about old characters being used again and having the wrong voice or whatever. It was a fun issue, filler to be sure but fun nonetheless. Which is what comcis should be, fun. I liked the art, I liked the letter column/intro to the team. I liked it. Lots.

Exactly, the kids use the word 'Adults' to mean any threat. Just like when you read stuff from the 60s 'sticking it to the Man' doesn't mean that he's going to go hit Nixon with broomstick.

You know what really gets me about the pre-boot Legion? Its that Cockrum and Grell never gave Brainy a sexy outfit. This is most definitely discrimination against nerds everywhere. Do smart people automatically have to wear formless jumpsuits that look like the came from the mechanics shop? This message brought to you by the Alliance of Sexy Nerds.

Wow. I did not have that reaction at all. Quite the opposite. I think the current crew has all kinds of respect, perhaps even reverence, for what's gone before, and that that's come out in the stories, especially this issue.

Certainly not around me.

I'm puzzled as to how someone could interpret them as "ridiculing the past Legion stories". After all the blatantly stated message of the story was that it doesn't matter if those stories or versions of the Legion "really happened", i.e. whether they are "in-continuity", that what matters is whether they are good stories. I actually found it interesting that they only used the Adventure, SLSH, and Baxter era teams, however, and nothing afterwards. It's almost as though they were saying that everything since 1989 has been uninspiring. I know that's a sentiment a lot of Legion fans hold, but still...

What a nice morsel of an issue. Certainly it will be handy reference for new fans.

Karate Kid obviously wasn't to broken up over his break-up with Shadow Lass because of his crush on Phantom Girl.

Cosmic Boy's crush is obviously on himself. When Mirror Lass comes along, he won't be able to contain himself.

And why, oh why, does Element Lad have to be the "spiritual" one? Why can't he just be "thoughtful?" That whole "nature of change" business is just too much of a setup for him to leave the team whenever he wants. Oh for the days of his motivation based on Roxxas.

The odd thing about Element Lad obsessing on the nature of change is that his current powers don't involve permanently changing things. Whatever changes goes back to the way it was.

Agree about the first bit Eryk but not the - "I know that's a sentiment a lot of Legion fans hold" comment

My only complaint about this issue is I'd have loved to have seen WaK work in the 5YG. Not even a sniff of a 9 panel grid There are a few folk who find the early stuff doesn't emotionally engage them enough to help get them by the incredibly daft stories - I think everyone agrees they are funny at times but maybe some peole just prefer something with a bit more meat to it