Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Postboot Legion Dangler List

I'm all ok with using technology to bring people back from the dead, in a way, as long as there are rules for it. There should always still be an element of danger when the Legionnaires face enemies, otherwise it cheapens things a bit.

I'd also like to know how people who go through this "data storage and transfer" process deal with it. Is it scarring in some way, does it really feel the same considering they are now inhabiting completely new bodies, does everyone experience it the same way?

And for anyone who missed that discussion:


It adds up

Well, we know there's *a* Wildfire in the 75th century who was a 30th century member of the LSH, and he sort-of-survives into the 853rd century, by which point he's exhausted enough energy that he can't maintain a coherent form, and is just a "Wildflame".

Of course, there's the whole origin confusion in LSH Annual #7 to account for. I wonder if he ends up with a third person in his energy matrix, which recharged him, and THAT's whose origin he remembers in the Dead Earth Annual. Either that, or he plain goes a bit senile after forty-five centuries

I think keeping a backup as a cron job while you sleep would be more reasonable - those who were "dead" for 30 minutes, as you put it, were kept cold (accidentally or deliberately) for that long, slowing brain death. Eventually, the brain still rots too much and you'd get, at best, an incomplete record.

As for telepaths backing people's minds up - c'mon, just how empty do you think Imra's head IS that she could keep multiple people up there?

Our personalities are a mix of hardware and software. Presumably, if you were growing a new brain, the resulting person wouldn't be you, exactly - even if no new flaws resulted, the "fixing" of flaws would certainly change who you were...

[And that's before you come to matters of souls (which may or may not Be Things in real life, but are explicitly for-real in the DCU). Would the copy be a soulless "hollow" that demons could move into at any time, like in Kevin Smith's Green Arrow? Even if it had a soul, would it be YOUR soul, or an all-new one?]

Not at all sure how I'd handle that information. I'd like to think I'd go out and live a wild life but my immediate thought is I'd quit. Life is a funny combination somewhere between knowing through the chaos and the promise of the chaos.

Dear Dark Circle,

My name is Thom Kallor. It has come to my attention, mainly through beating you up, that you have access to cloning technology. I was hoping we could meet and discuss growing a clone of me to send back into the 21st Century.We could call him Danny.

Yours (sort of ) faithfully,
Starboy (or Starman)

To add to that, just KNOWING you went through the process is sure to be disconcerting, to say the least! I'm sure some people wouldn't be able to handle that knowledge all that well.



That wraps it up wonderfully, for Star Boy fans at least!

Funny, but two thingamabobs:
1) The postboot Dark Circle was never shown to have cloning tech (and seemed to be a pretty shoddy group that B4 had thrown together in the past few years, which fell apart when she was taken out)
2) That wouldn't resolve Dreamer's vision!

IIRC, Dreamer's vision only showed a tomb for Thom Kallor, Star Boy. So having a clone "die" COULD still resolve that. Doesn't solve the problem of the lack of cloning tech though.

Nah, a clone wouldn't resolve that. She could, if she was feeling excessively literal and willing to attempt to cheat fate (and as a precognitive, she should know how dangerous THAT would be), just put up a gravestone herself with NO funeral involved! (Wouldn't even need to be in a cemetery on that basis - just find an open patch of ground, maybe in LW's Xanthu zone, stick the stone in, leave for a day and then take it out and have it ground up for gravel).

But if the real Thom was around, they wouldn't have a funeral for a clone who'd just hopped on B5's time platform (or been given that Time Bubble we see the elderly Starman has in Starman #79-80).

Hmm, I can think of many reasons a clone would be given a funeral while Thom was still around. Thom going into hiding, for one; Nura could be in on it and still do the whole "put up the gravestone with mock funeral thing". I see it more as, she realizes after the clone is "buried" that "hey, this clone funeral was what I saw in my vision! Thom won't die like that!"

Or she could spend the whole time after that thinking, "okay, the clone died but this might not fulfill my vision so Thom could still die"... so yeah.

I don't really fuss about which boot version such and such a thing was revealed in. Far too often, these things come round again.

In this reboot the Dark Circle is a Morris dancing troupe who practice at night? Fine. But six months from now, they;ll be killing off the Morris dancers form other villages and replacing them with clones.

Then of course you have those characters who were significantly different in various Boots. Not just physically (Star Boy, Sensor/Projectra), but in terms of personality (preboot Ultra Boy was a lot smarter and more mature than the Threeboot version!, and threeboot Brainiac 5 is so not like the Postboot one).

When I was reading Legion of 3 Worlds, I wasn't struck at how amazingly different any of the analogues were. The three Brianiacs went straight into a Doctor Who homage of trying to show which one was the smarter one.

Postboot Brainy was a lot more cooperative than Threeboot Brainy, though. Threeboot Brainy kept "attacking" the older Preboot Brainy.

Still all pretty much screamed Brainiac to me really, with some minor variations. No more of a variation than we see sometimes from successive writers on the same book.

See, the problem with LO3W was that it was written by Geoff Johns. He never wrote ANY of the reboot or threeboot Legion and I'm rather convinced he never READ them either.

There should have been more major variations among versions. Postboot Brainy had learned to be more polite. Umbra (Postboot) had a lot more issues with herself than Preboot Tasmia ever had. Preboot Violet is a lot more aggressive than Postboot Violet, and Threeboot Violet tops the cake.

True. This is why I may be rather annoyed by you referring to the real postboot Legion as the "247 team" in another thread.

I can't remember where we discussed it Reboot, but you did a rather incisive analysis of the differences between the Postboot Legion and the Legions that had appeared in Infinite Crisis and LO3W. Since we're discussing Postboot Legion vs. E-247 Legion, would you like to share it again?

I absolutely despise the "247" designation as applied to that iteration of the team, simply because it makes no sense as that number has no significance for them.

Anyway, it seems to me the Johns didn't mangle the reboot/threeboot Legions any more than he mangled the "preboot" Legion. Which, admittedly, he mangled pretty badly.

You asked for it! [I can't find the thing right now, so I just spent three-quarters of an hour from 3am retyping this from memory. Tell me if I missed anything.]

Basically, I have it that the Superboy we see in Legion #25-38 was never the DCU version, but the version from an alternate universe where OWAW* went slightly differently** and his backstory was never rewritten, so he was still an altered clone of Cadmus Director Paul Westfield. The DCU half-Lex Superboy, meanwhile, went to Earth-247 ("Earth-Johns") - the timeline seen briefly in Johns' JSA #51 which had a number of differences - a unique HQ, Mordru being free but wearing his Adventure-era look and generally being depicted as much older and more haggard than Moy's version (Dr Fate's dialogue suggests he's more of an irritant than a genuine threat), and Blok being a member pre-eminent amongst them***.

*Note there was ALREADY an alternate Legion stemming from OWAW from DnA's Young Justice: OWAW special. There, Brainiac 5 merged with Brainiac 13, M'Onel started wearing Superman's costume, and they teamed up with various bad guys including Mordru - in his look from JSA #1-5 - and the Fatal Five to fight Imperiex.
**The timeline divergence is presumably related in some form to the "error" Imperiex was obsessed with in the universe, which was the result in Superman blowing him up at the Dawn of Time. Specifically, the major direct difference from the Legion's POV is that Doc Magnus/Veridium was never reabsorbed into Computo during OWAW in the DCU, but was in the postboot Legion's timeline per The Legion #13, although Kon's altered backstory and other wibbles that happen when you mess with the Dawn of Time, like they did in Zero Hour, also become relevant.
***This means that Elements of Disaster cannot have happened, since his world is destroyed and his entire race killed in that story.

Rolling OWAW/Veridium/Computo and JSA #51/Blok/Mordru together, I get this, which is rather more speculatory than the above:

In Earth-247, Computo was never around to found Robotica, and Mordru's history is also different, presumably because events in the 21st century went differently, meaning galactic history is rather different. This has several key effects for the Legion: (1) Mordru is not freed by the Winema-authorised drilling c. Legionnaires #43 - perhaps he was trapped somewhere else, or else was in hiding from a relative lack of power. (2) Dragonmage does not get depowered, and so doesn't free the Elements of Disaster, so Dryad doesn't get blown up, and presumably the Legion intervene in the situation and recruit Blok, (3) the events surrounding the Blight invasion must be different in some substantial way, since Cos, Tinya, B5.1 and Monstress would not have been sent to deal with the Robotican Emissary. (Regardless, the basic events of Widening Rifts and Lost must happen in some form for them to recruit Shikari, so *a* Blight invasion must have happened!)

Subsequent to the Lost team's return, with no Venge/Computo to back him up, Ra's may have been forced to act differently than he did in the real timeline. If Brande still felt the need to retreat and build Legion World during that year, however, it must have been heavily damaged and abandoned for some time as a result of the Terrorform events, possibly even destroyed with an eye to later rebuilding, since the returned Legion is shown with in a building as their base rather than on an artificial planet (and certainly, with no Robotica, Xanthu is not invaded and virtually destroyed during this time, which means Dreamer never gets her Khund training and stays ditzy). Certainly some version of "Foundations" must have happened to bring the half-Lex Superboy to the future, leading into the Teen Titans/Legion Special, although involving portals rather than the disguised parademons.

[Whereas in the postboot timeline post-Legion #38, Star Boy gets thrown back in time to become "Danny Blaine" per Starman #50; and various hints shown in other stories!]

Thank you for retyping it all from memory Wow! I thought you'd remember where we discussed it before (must have been a PM). Sorry for the extra work.

So we're looking at three Legion versions (pls. let me know if I got anything wrong):

1) The real Postboot Legion - the version that was featured in Legion of Super-Heroes, Legionnaires, Legion Lost, Legion Worlds, up to DNA's the Legion (they would have been featured only up to Legion 38, then?)

2) The Earth-247 version - made a cameo in JSA, and was where the present DCU's Superboy ended up. We know this is different because of the differences in their cameo in JSA. This is the Legion that appeared in Titans/Legion, that got lost in the timestream, that reappeared in Infinite Crisis and LO3W, and whose Gates and XS crossed over to the Retroboot Legion

3) The Legion that made a brief cameo in OWAW



It also irked me that they couldn't have had the Postboot Legion remain one of the existing 52 Earths in the New 52. As if they'd already assigned realities to each of those 52!

I remember distinctly in LO3W that Johns had Dreamer use her ditzy-day speech patterns, so that goes towards supporting your theory

Talking some stuff over with iB, a further thought occurred as to why, in the JSA #51 flashforwar, Mordru might look so much older & more haggard and why, from what Dr. Fate says, he's more of a nuisance than a serious threat (backed up by the Legion's apparent attitude - M'Onel smirks as he whacks him in the face!).

What if the "Earth-247" Mordru, permanently weakened by his 21st century fights, managed to carve out some sort of 29th century empire, more dependent on the Eye than in the real postboot, and Mysa confronted him as in the real timeline... and turned the aging spell he used on her in the real timeline back on him, so that HE got hit by it? Leading to him being forced to yield/retreat or being plain imprisoned rather than being sealed away?

Although, when Mysa was hit by the spell in the proper Postboot timeline, only her physical body was affected. Her magical abilities seemed to remain intact (and actually weakened when she was deaged by Mordru again!). For Mordru to be a nuisance, he must have had to have been weakened prior to his 29th century empire - or perhaps the spell in this reality was also meant to weaken magical power in addition to the physical being