Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Let's Talk About LSH #5 (DEFINITE TOTAL SPOILERS!)...

Director Lad I agree. While they may seem juvenile physically and despite all the underager talk the characters seem well rounded and don't appear to have the same hang ups as they did for decades before.

I think the ZH reboot made them younger so some of these hang ups were enhanced (Garth for example). So far these "kids" are pretty well developed. I like that because I don't feel like I am starting all over again...again.

So now we get new hang-ups (and complications but hey they are NEW!)

Hi guys
Great to read most of you enjoyed #5!

I was happy to bring Brin back as you know - and VERY pleased most of you like his new look!

Just because he says he's not a Legionnaire doesn't mean he's telling the truth

I'll try to get the character sheets for Brin and the bad guys to Nightcrawler as soon as I can for those interested in seeing them.

The no old villains for at least the first two years thing - is largely because we know where we're going for that long very clearly - and there's just no room for any old villains yet - sorry!

Geez I am reading this later this morning after work but I can't stop commenting on what you guys are saying.

Projecta and Brin? Ahhh, anyone remember her being leader and him deputy leader?

I always thought those two had a chance since those final days of v3. He was done moping over Ayla. She became a very strong force on the team after Val's death. And well Brin was her dead husband's best friend at one point? I don't know I just thought way back when (i was 13 geez that was long ago) that they can become an item. I hope they do.

Random comments and thoughts about this excellent issue of LSH:

--Brin Londo. Now THAT was unexpected. I like him better here than I EVER have before. Here's to reimagination.

--I figured Ultra Boy's bluster was cover for normal teenage insecurity, but it's even worse than I thought.

--Are he and Shady an item? Ewwwww, I don't know why that bugs me, but it does.

--Too bad that Bizarro story was bunk. Sounds like more fun than the real Bizarro Legion we got years ago.

--Wow. You wanted a legion of super-villains? You got it.

--They take orders from a guy named "Lemnos?" That's the same name as the Praetor from last issue! Same guy? Or is this the son of the Praetor -- and as such, is this the extremist version of the Legion/adult generation divide?

--That head badguy sure looks like Mon-el. But it couldn't be him.

--...Could it? "Lemnos" is mostly an anagram of "Mon-el."

Issue 5 was great...much improved over 4 and the return of Barry on art really makes a difference! Still no Violet or Projectra but I will take the return of Lone Wolf...ala Levitz.. in their place. Love Lightning Lad's 70's Grell look..hair, burnes...it's awesome. Imra was in character too butwould love to see her hair down! A new Legion of Super Villians and Mon-el to boot it looks like. I LOVE the roll call page..it's so cool...keep it up Barry. Looks like we have a speedster..yuk...you know we went years and years without one before the bland XS.. do we need one now?? Would much rather see original, unique characters like Dawnstar, Blok, and White Witch.

Great issue...

Hmmm. There must be some mistake on my copy. The alien Ultra Boy is fighting on the cover looks absolutely nothing like the hot chick billboard he tussles with in the story.


Translated from Interlac:
<I'm getting really tired of these random covers that have nothing to do with the story. I was looking forward to Jo kicking some alien ass and all he did was burn a hole in a billboard. I bet we don't even get a Colossal Boy/Ultra Boy fight in #8.>

at first glance, it looks like the cover with Ultra Boy as nothing to do with the story. but hey, on a deeper level, just suppose the alien represents whatever demons, or virus is causing Jo's powers to become unstable. than the cover makes perfect sense.

White Witch! In the crowd, at least.

So, who are the parents on the Council? We've got one shapechanger - and could that be a very aged Papa Dox on Page 3? Of course, the kids don't have to look like the parents - but they usually do in comic books.

That's Lemnos Jr. isn't it? He looks younger than the Praetor Lemnos in the previous issue.

I would have preferred to see Lightning Lad and Saturn Girl on the cover, since this issue was essentially their "re-intro".

Really liking Garth, but no surprise there, as he has always been my favorite super! "Gotta be waaaay honest!" Loved that bit!! And being irked at Brin for dumping his sister. And I don't see where it is implied that Projectra is his sister. I took it that Ayla dumped Brin (she seems to be a popular girl) and Brin now has a thing for Jeckie. I guess we'll see.

Enjoyed the Bizarro tales Garth was spinning, whether it was true or a story to entertain the kids. Either way, it was a great nod to the past (of course I mean the Bizarro Legion of the Adventure Era, not the one immediately preceding DnA).

Was that Bertron Diib (wasn't that his name, from L.E.G.I.O.N?) on page 13, panel 4? I believe Mr. Kitson designed Bert, so why not include him/one of his species amongst the Legionnaires?

I also noticed, as has been mentioned, that Saturn Girl never spoke in the entire issue. It is always thought projection. I like the idea that she would generally always use this method of communication, but sometimes wasn't sure when she was having a general conversation (with all the Rimworld survivors) or a private conversation with Brin or Garth.

There is actually no evidence that she can talk to begin with. Maybe Titanians(?) have lost the ability to project sound, as their voicebox has atrophied, like an unused muscle or something. I also noticed in the last pages, when Cos & Brainy are getting an update from Garth and Imra, he does all the talking. Maybe Imra can't 'path across light years. She may have to "mime" in a report if she's on a solo mission.

Few discrepancies (or maybe something I "missed", feel free to enlighten me anyone):

Brin's gloves changed a couple of times. In most every panel they are cuffed at the wrist, and solid (closed at the fingertips), but on page 10 panel 4 they appear to be open at the fingers, and in the next panel, they extend to the elbow with the pattern that Jo has on his gloves. Minor thing.

What I really was getting thrown by was the alien Anti-Legion members. After rereading a few times, I don't think any of them have telepathic powers (which I originally thought). The green nameless guy who projects water mentioned engaging the psionic filters, so they must use 31stC tech to scramble telepathic powers. When the battle turns against them and Imra has broken through the filters, he mentions to Phren "jam the blonde's power again". But just before this, the fire projector (Inferno/Beauty Blaze) chick says "Phren don't get rattled! Maintain the filters". So for a while I thought maybe Phren was a telepath. But I ultimately decided that the filters are tech related.

Also, Phren changed color from green to orange on the page where he 'gated' them out. Maybe it happens when he uses his powers?


All in all, another hit outta the ballpark!! Keep 'em coming!

Looking forward to seeing them, Barry. I love seeing your design pages. You are doing a fantastic job on the book.

I believe Barry has previously mentioned that the covers for the first 6 issues were designed to give a "feel for the LSH" rather than a feel for the action contained inside. So, the cover for issue 7 likely does have something to do with the stroy inside--perhaps something regarding Ultra-Boy's lack of ability to control his powers (a good reason to leave the legion, by the way).

Also, I wouldn't put too much stock in a Karate Kid and Ultra Boy feud. It seems like Waid is good at dropping hints that a big group of teens inherently involves conflict, but the team gets over it (see Sun Boy & Chameleon almost coming to blows over religion). Then again, you never know where a storyline will develop.

regarding Lemnos. I noticed that Praetor has similiar triangular markings on his forehead. maybe he is related, or some kind of clone?

Hi Guys
I think some of the small inconsistencies are down to my having done Layouts rather than full pencils so with all these new characters Art was thrown in at the deep end rather.

The cover with Colossal Boy and Ultra Boy DOES take place in the story!

Barry, with your cryptic comment about Brin Londo's status as a Legionnaire, can you confirm or deny he was the orange sleeve/black glove seen in the splash page in issue 1? Enquiring minds want to know! I can't think of anyone else on the team now who matches that combo, which has been traditionally linked to Timber Wolf.

ps: It's good to have you back both on the book and on the board.

It could be Cham's orange skin and black glove.


So, since Brin's not a Legionnaire, does that mean there's still a mystery "brown boots boy" unaccounted for?

Jim, I bet you're right. I never noticed that Cham has the longer gloves this go 'round. Didn't he have cuffed gloves in the SW6/Zero Hour design? I must still have them in my head. If he didn't have cuffs I must be even more tired today than I thought.

atom girl must be shrinking violet. we haven't seen her yet but we know she has been designed.

i thought all the atom girl lines were just a joke.

i loved this issue !!! my favourite so far !!!

the scenes with the SP and the diplomates was great, but i wonder out of the ones we saw, match up to be parents of LEGIONNAIRES ???

i noticed a DURLAN, so i guess that must be CHAM's father/mother !!??

the one with the "long face" and the hood, resembles the same cloak/hood of PROJECTRA's costume IMO !!?? is that her parent ??

who could RED HELMET and GREEN FACE be ??

i also noticed the WHITE WITCH is the view screen !!

it was cool seeing BRIN return !! and i'm really glad also that he is human !!

JO's power "shorts" are interesting ?? wonder if he has any different powers this time around !! [ i still want the "one at a time" rule though .... ]

i liked the fact that IMRA used her telepathy throughout to communicate !! and the "private exchange" notion was cool !!

the scene with ZEPHA blowing GARTH a kiss, reminded me of URSA from "SUPERMAN II" !!

finally the new "villians" seemed interesting enough, and i'm intrigued by the name LEMNOS ??? could it really be ..... MON-EL ???

can't wait for the next one !!! thanks for a great issue Mark/Barry !!!

Matthew.

Was anybody else disturbed by general Toling4rd's assertion on page two? Specifically, I mean, "As a law-keeping force, we work with you, but do not answer to you..." The 31st century is a disturbing place, indeed, if police feel that they can casually dismiss the concerns of their society's democratically elected leaders! Yes, yes, I understand that present-day police must not bow to political pressure in the day-to-day pursuit of justice, but they would never dare to dismiss the opinions of powerful politicians so blatently, especially to their faces.

Originally, I saw the Legion as having formed to fight social stagnation and crime--period. Now, it seems clear to me that there may be something intrinsically wrong with the United Planets on a political level as well. Maybe Brainiac-5 has the right idea: a revolution.

By the way, the spelling of the general's name with a "4" was also interesting. Is this an indication that on-line/cell-phone style spelling becomes the norm by the 31st century?

I seem to recall someone opining in the Levitz era that the skill of handwriting itself may arguably have become extinct by the Legion's time, due to complete dependence on keyboards for printed communications. My point is that I like it when Legion writers throw little touches like these ones into the mix just to make the future seem more authentic.

Another nice touch would be if they brought back the old Encyclopedia Galactica entries in the narration. Hint, Hint.

True, though modern police organizations were mostly established by the governments of the regions they operate in; while the Science Police apparently predate the United Planets. They've been around for "generations," and probably the worlds they protected were entirely politically independent to start with. That's why I'm thinking that the SP may have evolved from a known private law-enforcement organization like L.E.G.I.O.N. or the Darkstars. As such, the UP wouldn't have any real claim on their loyalty. Indeed, the SP probably sees it as a competitor of sorts.

I'm trying to find a 21st-century analogy...maybe the UN versus the International Red Cross?

Or there's another level of government we haven't seen yet - like the individual governments of Europe vs. the European Union. For that matter, to whom does NATO answer? Not to the United Nations - although the two might work together in some situations.

If there was some administrative collapse in an earlier generation, the Science Police might have become the law - now there is a new multi-planet group (a government or just a cooperative body?) forming... Which makes me wonder, who came up with the Youthreg of the last issue? The SPs, Praetor Lemnos or some other "government"?

Maybe the Legion will become the United Planets "Science Police" - enforcing their policies?

When I read the "Toling4rd" I thought of android or robot naming traditions - that maybe he was part machine. But Mediocre Boy's explanation makes more sense. A society that uses help-clones (unless that's just an expression) probably wouldn't accept to have a half-robot running the show.

Read it yesterday just got around to the PC.

Cover: Beautiful. But does it have anything to do with the inside? Shady and Jo didn't fight the aliens it was the other group. And the alien on the cover resembles one the survivors the Legion is rescuing not one of the "super villains". Wonder when the covers will make a bit more sense. Also while Jo looks awesome I don't care for that costume design much. The gloves are cool but the brown forearms? eh. Thinking maybe black forearms? Or bare? The insignia is too streamline IMO. It's my fave of the team...considered getting it as a tatoo a few times. I like the fuller version personally.

The issue: (yeah I haven't even started talking about the issue) I will try to skip something previously said.

First few pages? Yes I am not a fan of the entire underagers thing, eat it grandpa, etc. But this explained things a bit more and I enjoyed it. SPs are NOT the enemy.

I really liked the issue. The change of scenery. A new conflict with members we haven't seen before? yes! The children stayed behind to help in a near hopeless situation. I've echoed Saturn Girl's comments on the board before...at one point does common sense kick in?

Brin? Nice. Liked his attitude, his dialogue, his costume, his "I'm not a 14 year old dork" vibe. By far my fave (with Dirk!).

I liked the villains big time. Cool costumes and powers! I thought Brin was going to save the day but LL kicked ass! Great page. Before I forget loved the art by Barry.

Last page was cool. Lemnos looked so imposing last issue and I read he wasn't as big this issue. Thankfully he didn't shrink much. (I think all the members need a couple years, pounds, and inches added on personally).

This issue was a bit more my style. More action, more drama, etc. Did I mention that LL rocked?!

I've thought from the start that the SP weren't the equivalent of present-day police, despite the name. I don't think they're the army either, exactly, and that was reinforced this issue.

My original thoughts about them in the current series were that they were closer to the robots in "The Day The Earth Stood Still", a "police force" created by the allied governments at some point but once established operating completely independent of them to enforce a simple order. Of course, that could just be me trying to overlay one of my favorite movies on my favorite comic. In any event, I'm sure it's not an exact parallel even if it's headed in the right direction.

Have we seen any non-human SP's yet?

And without going through all the issues again, I'm not sure we know that the UP's leaders are democratically elected. That seems a bit off for the Naltor we've seen at the very least.

One other random thought: think "Eyespy Date" was our obligatory crossover with Infinite Crisis?