Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Reboot Re-read: DnA Legion

Well, I figure Vi reads a lot.


Good observations on the GDS. I have some other comments to this as well, as there is an aspect of this trying to be GDS in the context of the reboot that rubs me the wrong way.


I think in my headcanon, I just figured she was getting her ribs taped up when the other team was leaving out.

The Legion #30

Released February 25, 2004
DC Comics, Color
23 Pages

Foundations The Final Chapter
Dan Abnett & Andy Lanning - Writers
Chris Batista - Pencils
Chip Wallace - Inks
Sno Cone - Colors
Stephen Wacker - Editor

Synopsis

Superboy gets the jump on Darkseid as Garth, Violet and Kid Quantum emerge from their quantum time portal. Superboy fights Darksied while the others handle the minions. The time barrier the older Darkseid begins to fail, possibly because he had some kind of a failsafe that only he knew about. The young Darkseid has no idea how to proceed. Vi and Garth have an idea to go back a short period of time to stop Darkseid and go back 20 minutes to when the young Darkseid comes out of the boom tube. The foursome pops out, and Connor and Vi punch the young Darkseid back through the tube and follow him in. The rest of the Legion handles old Darkseid. The combined powers of Superboy, Kid Quantum's powers, Garth's electricity and Vi's brute force keep pushing Darkseid back and Jazmin realizes that this is the moments she's been seeing over the last several issues.

On Apokalips, old Darkseid weakens, and he pulls the energy from his dark servants to fortify himself. This makes the dark servants disappear, and their 20th century counterparts to emerge confused. In the boom tube, Vi has yound Darkseid talk to the hand and pushes him out into his proper time. The boom tube closes. Clark defeats Darkseid on Apokalips, which turns dormant again.

Back at Legion World, which is under repair due to the time wave, the Legion prepares to return Clark to his proper time. Superboy stays, because they haven't figured out his specific time of origin. Connor and Clark say goodbye. Connor helps Brainy restore the dark matter back to the universe. Imra and Rokk deliver Clark.

One thousand years in the future, Darkseid stirs on Apokalips.


Commentary

So we're finally here - the conclusion of the Foundations epic. As a final issue, I think this actually works pretty well considering the timey-wimey nature of this story. As has been the case for many issues now, the art is just amazing. Finally, the art and story do very well together. Things really move along and makes this particular issue a page turner. Not perfect, but pretty well done by itself. The Superboy team "do-over" was handled pretty well, and I (personally, mind you) loved Vi having a literal hand in putting Darkseid in his place. Things get put back in place as they had been generally, although I'm still confused as to how a time wavefront physically affects the real world to the point of repairable damage.

I actually enjoyed Superboy in this issue. Irreverent and cocky, yet capable, but yet he was never given his real redemption moment by an apology from his tormentor, Cosmic Boy. The overall storyline was what we've seen is classic DnA and should be used to it - multi-part stories designed to be sold as a package, so the editing isn't as tight as it should be, especially with the waste of a first issue in #25.

I'm going to pause here for a moment, to comment that this overall storyline is obviously a homage to the classic Great Darkness Saga. Its obvious from issue 25 that this story is supposed to be a celebration of the Legion in the DC Universe, but while the GDS really collected almost all elements of Legion Lore together at some level (25-ish years at that point?), this storyline is really just a celebration of DnA's Legion, and not what had come before them the prior five years. The original GDS was five issues. In six issues, this overall story just doesn't have the level of care with anything outside of DnA's work. It's something I've commented on often during these reviews - This Legion existed before DnA and barely acknowledging its existence is kind of a diss to those creators and the fans. An equivalent story to the classic would include Andromeda, Mysa, Lori, Marla, etc, but no, nothing - no magic, barely even select relationships - existed before DnA took over.

I understand why fans love DnA. I get it. DnA came along at a time when things were bad for a lot of fans - the stories for the most part were stagnant since the 20/30 split - and they re-ignited the flame. It doesn't mean they should have been allowed to be gatekeepers to that universe; whether they (or the readers) liked it or not, DnA built upon what Peyer, McCraw, Stern, Merlo, Waid, Carlson and others had built before them. Inclusion or recognition of characters and events prior to McAvennie pulling them in and bum-rushing the earlier creators out would have been welcome. The original GDS had almost every Legion ally involved in the story. This one couldn't even be bothered to pull in the characters dispatched to the Kwai galaxy, so failing to reference the earlier creators was a massive fail on DnA and Wacker's part. As a tribute the story arc falls flat on its face.

Grade: B+. Good stuff, but not quite A-worthy

Yeah, I agree - it was a nice, fun issue but I would struggle to classify it as a classic.

Drawing parallels to, say, the Great Darkness Saga - or even in the Reboot, the Mordru story or the COMPUTO story (which marked Legionnaires 50 and LSH 100), those other stories referenced the rich long history of the team better. The GDS brought in Supergirl, gave small but key moments to the Subs, the Wanderers, even Dev-Em... Mordru brought back Andromeda, LSH 100 had some 20th century guest stars.

This one... the Servants were interchangeable, yeah it was nice to see the likes of Barda, Firestorm or Hawkgirl, but nothing differentiated them from one another, when Hawkgirl appears it could have been switched with anyone.

I did like the banter and fun that our heroic foursome (Connor, Garth, Jaz and Vi) had.

I'm trying to forget, but was it revealed that young Clark only escaped from Darkseid's clutches because Darkseid let him? I can't remember anymore. I know there was a passing explanation, but I remember not caring too much about it, I was focused more on Connor being all annoyed about being compared to Clark - by Cos. Sigh, Cos.

Connor was a bit cocky, but again, nothing too bad - Cos still seemed like a jerk due to his disproportionate reactions through the story.

Really good point about the LSH 100 and Legionnaires 50. As Legion tributes, both did much better jobs. I'd argue that Emerald War was a much better storyline than Foundations.


I was just happy that Vi got as much screen time as she did. Parched man in the desert and all that....


It was revealed two issues prior when Clark fell into the Smallville preserve area - he saw Connor's S-emblem in issue 26, tore it from his shirt, then blindly ran away to Smallville in the 31st century. Then Orion tracked him down and tried to dispatch him, which is the fight where Cos acted like a real prick to Connor and let Orion get away.

thanks for refreshing my memory, GL!

yeah, and even the bios in this Secret Files were meh. The bios in LSH Secret Files 1 and 2 at least had extra tidbits... a list of all UP worlds... bios of other dead heroes honored on Shanghalla... we did not get much new here.

I'm behind in my reading, so I caught up with #27-30 in two sittings.

Overcoming my resistance to a new Darkseid story and especially to "Jarth" is hard, but if I accept this story for what it is, I find I enjoy it quite a bit. Comparisons with the original "Great Darkness Saga" are inevitable, but DnA chose to do something different with Darkseid this time. They focused on the idea of Old Darkseid disrupting time by bring his younger self into the present and trying to rule the universe in his younger body. But Darkseid, revealing an interesting character flaw, forgot to take into account his younger self's ego. So, things go very badly for him. In previous stories, Darkseid has been portrayed like most god-like villains are--knowing all the answers, infallible, able to anticipate anything--so it was refreshing to see that he doesn't really know himself well at all. I love it when even major villains have significant character flaws.

I also enjoyed the twist on one of Darkseid's servants turning out to be the young Clark Kent we saw in # 25. I thought DnA had forgotten about him or that he had suffered some horrible demise (like all the Catastrophists); when he revealed who he was, I was pleasantly delighted. I also thought the riff on Superman's origin that began # 26 was an effective way of leading into this revelation. I was a bit confused as to whether "Pa Kent" was the real Pa Kent or a simulation of some kind--did Clark travel back into the past? We're quickly told that he landed in a Smallville historical preservation site, but Pa's exact nature remains unexplained.

And I enjoyed the twist of learning why Clark had ripped off Conner's "S" emblem. This reveals another flaw in Darkseid's scheme--his Servants maintained some of their own identities and memories, and they can shake off his "brainwashing" with enough motivation.

Another element of the story I enjoyed was the revelation that Jazmin's power fluctuations were caused by the temporal anomalies. At least twice in the story, Jaz experiences visions of ghostly characters engaged in some kind of action. The outlines of these figures are clearly herself and her other teammates (Superboy, Vi, and Garth) as they undertake their mission later in the story. She's experiencing a flash-forward. It's great to see what DnA were doing here. They had planned this story very carefully and threw in things such as this to keep us guessing.

As far as the Legionnaires themselves go, I don't mind Rokk's continued irritation at Superboy. Rokk may have grown since the early days of the Legion, but he still has the same personality. He's a by-the-books guy who gets things done, and he has no time for anyone he sees as a liability to the team. Factor in his obvious disappointment that this Superboy isn't the iconic hero he thought he was, and I think Rokk's actions make perfect sense. We don't have to like it when our heroes behave like jerks, but sometimes it's useful to ask why they are doing so.

I also appreciate Ferro standing up for Superboy. When he first joined the Legion, Andy was portrayed as a nebbish. It's good to see him develop some backbone.

Imra is dismissive of "Jarth," and, yes, this is not a flattering character trait of hers, but again I have to wonder why. She has seen her fiance die only to be reborn in the body of the man who killed him. It's a wonder she's not in a loony bin or begging Universo to send her back to an uncomplicated fantasy. Just how should she feel about this man who looks nothing like the man she fell in love with? We all want to believe we fall in love with souls, but bodies count, too. And she's grown some since Garth's sacrifice. She had to come to terms with her own prejudices regarding the Progeny. Is she even the same person she was before Garth "died"?

The Lyle and Brainy scenes were cute, but the two scientists worried too much about each other in the heat of battle. Okay, we get it: They may be developing a mutual attraction or friendship for each other, but subtlety counts.

Vi finally gets something to do. I still feel she's a cypher as a character. DnA haven't invested much time in developing her personality; she does what the plot requires her to do. I, too, was puzzled by how she could be injured and not only time travel but fight Darkseid and his Servants. Ah, 31st century medicine!

There were some elements I didn't like. Once we are introduced to the concept of historical DC characters such as the Demon, the Amazons, and Jonah Hex disappearing into the white void, we get what's happening. Showing other DC heroes from more recent eras disappearing simply padded the story and was a little too similar to Crisis on Infinite Earths. Also, Issue 29 ended with Jaz and her team embarking on what I thought was a time-travel journey. Vi makes a point of saying there is nowhere to go but "when." So it threw me when No. 30 opened and they arrived on Apokalips to fight Darkseid in the present.

Time travel stories always require a lot of suspension of disbelief and a lot of acceptance of pseudo-scientific theories. For the most part, I found these not too distracting. I loved it that Jaz and her team went backward 30 minutes to stop the young Darkseid from emerging from the boom tube.

On a purely aesthetic level, I found the action scenes overwhelming. So much is happening in every corner of these panels that it's hard to focus on any one thing. If this were a movie, we'd have the rush of characters running forward into battle to keep the story moving and to show the sheer magnitude of the battle. In static images, the action scenes conveyed no new information except to give every Legionnaire something to do. Snippets of dialogue such as Andy missing Steeple also added nothing.

I read your posts, GL and Ibby, and I'm surprised that you don't like this storyline more than you appear to. Sure, it doesn't contain everything we might expect from past Legion stories (such as former Legionnaires appearing), but it has the happy ending you both seem to appreciate. Darkseid is defeated. Clark Kent goes home (a wonderful scene!). Superboy can't go home but makes himself useful. None of the Legionnaires were sacrificed, maimed, or altered. For the record, I'm not opposed to happy endings. I just want my stories to mean something or have a point. I'm not sure "Foundations" has a point, but it was a very clever take on a Darkseid/Legion story, and almost every Legionnaire has something significant to do.

I also enjoyed this aspect of the story. The other nice thing was that everyone had to tiptoe around Clarks eventual fate. I had the same assumption about what the servants had done with him and was glad to be proven wrong - that may have been a factor of the different art style of that aspect of #25.


Agree - but it made me scratch my head on the inclusion of Lobo in that mix.


Agree this was a good misdirect, although I did have my issues with the explanation, but that's minor handwavium when you get into quantum mechanics.


Well, I don't know that it worked here. It was over the top, based on a retconned religion, and Rokk never apologized after Superboy helped save the day.


Agree. It was much too long in the making.


I'd argue she became a completely different character in "Widening Rifts." But she's definitely a different person at this point.


Yeah, between the future medicine angle and them being turned into Tromium for protection, I waved past that, although I did thing similarly. But yeah, its a shame that DnA barely broke out of the 'Legion Lost' cast after 30 issues. That right there is probably the single most disappointing thing about their tenure.


Yeah this was way overdone, and it made me wonder how much of this was DnA's writing, to be honest. They used simulations of the JLA in issue 12, but this was pulling more obscure characters that the Legion wouldn't necessarily deal with as part of the servant cast, although some that probably had to be there, namely Orion and Big Barda.


This was initially confusing to me as well, until I realized they were using Jazmin's power to travel - quantum magic.


I really enjoyed this as well.


Yep, while prettily drawn, it had the effect of the later MCU movies' large battle scenes, which is to say I tune out and get bored. Ah, life after 50.


Actually, the last couple issues individually I did like - Issues 29 & 30 are definitely in the "Good" category. As is issue 26. I enjoyed the fight and especially Vi having a central role.

I think my more critical comments in the last review were around the entirety of Foundations, which has a mostly waste of a first part, a useless extra issue (the Secret Files) and a dragging middle. Plus, this is where I'm comparing the entirety of Foundations to the GDS. I think it speaks to the unevenness and lack of pacing to make this a better story. To your point, I think they made a couple of mistakes with this arc. First, they aimed it for eventual collection into one sellable volume, so had to stretch it out quite a bit for the pages. Second, I think they executed this wrong, and I suspect DC Editorial had a hand in this. If this was supposed to be a big story arc event to celebrate the Legion, they did this completely backwards.

The "event" issues from the prior run that Ibby and I were mentioning - LSH 100 and Legionnaires 50 - were the CULMINATION of big event story arcs, not the beginning. In this case, you had issue 25, a milestone event for the DnA title, which was all setup. For a milestone issue, you want to go with the big climax happening here, not a bunch of setup that people will be paying extra for without context. Not sure whose fault in planning that was, but it wasn't great.

The other item that was grating to me was the fact that yes, they had a lot of elements throughout the arc, and the end brought *most* of the Legionnaires together for common cause, but in a celebratory storyline, it wasn't even all of the *current* team, nor RJ Brande. You'd think in a story called "Foundations" he'd be around. And again, you have the Time Institute with no Rond Vidar, etc. DnA inherited a universe to improve upon; a little more overt recognition would have been nice. In the GDS, Levitz was very thoughtful about all the characters he included in the story, even for just a panel. That was absolutely not done here.

Re Cosmic Boy - I liked him calling Superboy out for reckless behavior, BUT NOT the sarcastic, passive-aggressive way he dealt with Superboy after the Superman costume fiasco. Nope. Him calling Connor out after the Karate Kid scene was okay: it was Cos being direct. That is the Cos I know. But the costume scene? The Cos I know would have sat Connor down, laid out the facts, and given him AND Ferro both a stern talking-to without disproportionately laying blame only on Connor.

Re every Legionnaire having something to do... Not quite. Where this story falls flat for me, is that most of the Legionnaires are actually interchangeable window dressing. Maybe it's space constraints, but again - comparing to GDS, the Emerald Vi/Mordru three-parter, the COMPUTO 3-parter, the Legionnaires had roles in the story where they could not have been mixed up. Here, it's basically a mass of Legionnaires charging into Apokolips without a plan. Let's take the initial encounter versus the Servants, there were like 10 Legionnaires there - it could have been any 10, as long as Connor was there, It didn't really matter which ones. Sorry, I prefer the creative power uses and tight planning that my Legion has shown in earlier battles. Let me break down the final defeat of Mordru -

1) Kinetix, Particon and Mysa deflect Mordru's attack
2) Sensor's illusions and Cham's shapeshifting fool Mordru into thinking he had killed everyone and gained the Eye
3) Kinetix cuts off Mordru's oxygen
4) XS, at super speed, strips him of his talismans
5) M'Onel, Monstress, Andromeda and Star Boy encase Mordru in an imprisonment sphere
6) Element Lad encases the sphere in metal
7) Invisible Kid as leader coordinates
8) Umbra buys time with her darkfield to distract Mordru while everyone gets into place

now THAT is everyone having something to do.

here.. the assault on Apokolips just felt amateurish, frankly.

Now, I did like many things - young Darkseid turning on old and messing up because he didn;t have his future self's knowledge. The timestream thing, with the shred of localized reality whatnot was an interesting and creative solution that made the time travel thing work. Young Clark Kent as an easter egg was inspired. Old Darkseid thinking his younger self would just turn his body over to him. And the mish-mash crew of of Jazmin, Vi, Connor and Garth saving the day.

But in the end, I was hoping for a bit more. This arc was fine enough, but did not hold a candle to the Emerald Vi/Mordru or the COMPUTO stories at all.

I'm not sure why Rokk would apologize. He still thinks he was in the right and, from his perspective, Connor did nothing to change that perspective. Sure, Connor was part of the team that beat Young Darkseid back to his point of origin, but Rokk did not witness this. Even if he had, he still knows Connor to be an impulsive and somewhat incompetent hero. Nothing about that has changed.

And, from a pure storytelling perspective, such an apology would detract from the story. It wouldn't really add anything. DnA were going for an emotional moment of Rokk and Imra taking Clark back to his time. It worked beautifully. Adding an apology just because it's expected wouldn't serve the needs of the story.



I get what you're saying here. Every new writer brings his or her own interpretation of the characters, so the pre-DnA Imra probably does seem like a different character (as, I would suggest, do each of the Legionnaires). But even if we start out with Imra from Legion Lost, she's been through an awful lot. Her assumptions about the universe and her place in it have changed. And after coming to terms with her beloved's death, she finds him alive--or someone claiming to be him. Even if her telepathy tells her one thing, her emotions may tell her another.

Even within their own self-contained universe, I think DnA have done a marvelous job of fleshing out Imra's character, getting inside her head, and relying on the reader to connect the dots.



I think that as Legion fans we're going to have to accept the fact that no new version of the Legion is going to give us exactly what we want. Comparing the current version to past versions only leads to frustration.

When the reboot began, a lot of fans did not accept it because it wasn't "their" Legion. To be candid, guys, some of your comments sound the same way. Yes, things were done differently in LSH 100 and L 50, but to expect the current team to do things the same way just seems like an exercise in frustration. Please don't compare this story to GDS or any previous Legion story. Accept it on its own terms.

As for every Legionnaire having something to do, I actually said *almost* every Legionnaire had something significant to do. I'm fine with some being window dressing. That's the nature of good story-telling. The writer focuses on what the reader needs to know, not particularly on what each individual reader wants to see. (Just think: If DnA had catered to my tastes, M'Onel would have played a major role in this story. I'm just as glad he didn't. It gave other characters a chance to shine.) Several Legionnaires have significant roles to play, including Jaz, Cos, Lyle, Brainy, Ferro, Garth (whatever body he's in), and Imra. The others are around to fill out the sense that this is a legion of heroes and to remind us of the camaraderie they enjoy. I think that's fine. Not every story needs to give a "shining moment" to every character.--not even an anniversary story. If all anniversary stories followed the same formula, they would get rather predictable and be no fun.

But each of us has a different expectation of what makes a good Legion story, and that's fine, too. I've enjoyed these re-reads as I've come to appreciate these 20-year-old stories in a new way. I've also come to appreciate your perspectives on them.

I'm not quite sure how to apply this bit of advice from you, to be honest, HWW. I feel a little bit misunderstood, so I will attempt to make my thoughts and comments clearer. I appreciate your perspectives as well, and I like that you appreciate mine, though I also feel you don't quite understand what I am trying to say. I don't quite feel that you "got" my criticism of this story.

I'm not saying this story should be just like GDS or the Mordru story, I am saying I expect a certain standard of story-telling. I am also saying I disliked the assault on Apokolips because it was basically - let's all rush in without a plan, without any tactics, without a clear goal other than to "get" Darkseid.


Your other review also compares Foundations a little bit to Crisis on Infinite Earths, so this adds to my confusion, HWW. From my view, I reference past stories within the same continuity as a standard of how I expect characters to act, not because I want the story to be a re-hash or re-do of that past story. So I'm not quite sure why you're asking me not to constantly compare to the past, when I think we all do tend to compare to past stories for various reasons.

Because even if I had not mentioned those other stories, I would still have the same complaint about window dressing.

I did look at my post earlier, and I can see I could have been clearer in my comment -


I should qualify, that the meat of my criticism comes from the various battles, especially the battle on Apokolips. I am fine with not every Legionnaire having more than one line of dialogue.

I expect my Legionnaires to use their powers wisely and approach battle with some strategy - something like Sensor cloaking the team (which she has done many times before) or Umbra giving shadow cover.

But again - and forgive me for comparing to another story - take JLA/Titans: Technis Imperative. I hold this up as a master-class of story-telling in terms of juggling a cast of dozens. Nearly every featured hero (which included the entire Titans membership) gets at least one panel and one line of dialogue highlighting their unique powers or personalities, enough that things feel new and fresh, and I feel like I've learned something about each. Rose Wilson gets a couple of panels challenging Big Barda, who clearly overpowers her. As a reader being introduced to Rose for the first time, this tells me she's a plucky, scrappy hero. I take something from it.

Another two panels have Prysm and Mirage talking about their experiences with being upset. In these two panels, I already learn that Prysm was raised in a VR environment, and that Mirage has considerably more real-world experience with some past traumas. Again, as a new reader not familiar with these characters, I already learn a lot about them.

That was the characterization bit, now about powers and abilities. Mister Miracle plays a key role helping break through the Watchtower security systems (a nod to his escape artistry). Bumblebee and Herald contribute their technical expertise. Guy Gardner was a shapeshifter here, and used his abilities to distract the malleable, shapeshifting substance that housed Cyborg's consciousness. This is what I meant when I wished the Legionnaires weren't interchangeable - instead of just having 20-odd heroes charging into battle, I want to feel like there is a game plan, where each Legionnaire is used in the manner that makes the most sense.

I will compare ahead - DNA's two-parter wrapping up the Credo storyline. The last issue shows a much better battle, where you have the Espionage Squad on one mission; Gear, Ferro and Cosmic Boy dismantling ships; Umbra using her darkfield as cover, and melee fighters/specialists in the first wave of battle as a distraction and a way to break the enemy ranks. Now that is a good game plan.


As you yourself said earlier -


I believe we have the same observations, but perhaps this element holds greater weight for me than it does for you. Hence, it may not be a deal-breaker for you, but it greatly reduces my own enjoyment of the story. Especially coming from a Secret Files issue that also reveals very little new information. I was hoping this story would reveal more to sink my teeth in.

And as you said, that is fine. I'm pleased that you like this story more than I do, as we are individuals. What I hope to avoid, is feeling misunderstood with where I am coming from in my reviews. I am not criticizing or disliking this story simply because it is different from past Legion stories - if I did, I would probably have disliked all of Lost and Worlds, and I would likely have hated the Element Lad as Progenitor twist. I actually liked it, and found it a masterpiece of story-telling.

And I will also add, my criticism of characters being interchangeable window dressing would be levied on any story, not just a Legion story. This is why I liked Crisis on Infinite Earths considerably more than I did Zero Hour - COIE made a much better use of the large cast, with many characters having an interesting moment be it only one panel. Speedy destroying the Shaggy Man because Shaggy isn't alive. Dove stopping Robotman from destroying a crystallized Black Adam. The Joker babbling about selling Poison Ivy's flowers to church groups. Doctor Phosphorus burning Hawkman. Peacemaker threatening to kill the visiting heroes, while Nightshade goes "maybe not kill, but..." Most of these took place in 1-3 panels, yet showed so much about each character. That is what I expect from good story-telling.

I also wonder if perhaps, we are coming from different angles in our reviews. You are a professional writer (you are published after all), so perhaps you come in with different ideas about what constitutes good story-telling. I primarily look at these stories from an angle of: what would make me enjoy a Legion story, based on my expectations of the team as a showcase of diverse individuals who work together to produce something greater than their individual selves. I enjoy clever power uses, clever battle tactics, and was a bit disappointed that many of the pages on Apokolips weren't more - seemed like a waste of space.

Now, I hope I have clearly explained and outlined my thinking. Perhaps this is more a "me" thing, but I find it unpleasant to be misunderstood - and (in my perception), being admonished for doing something I feel I did not do (i.e. constantly comparing new stories to old, and being disappointed when the new stories are different from the old). In my view, I am breaking this story down on its own merits, and comparisons to other stories are simply because I hold them up as stellar examples.

I didn't mind it, as it did give me a sense of a looming deadline. Though I do feel the space could have been used better indeed. Perhaps instead of showing these characters from the past, the panels could have been used for moments between our Legionnaires.

Apologize may be the wrong word. "Acknowledge" or "Show gratitude for" would probably be a better selection. And Rokk did not witness it, but Jazmin was there, and I'm pretty sure they have a close enough relationship at this point where she would have told him what happened.


No real disagreement here in concept, but the fact that they are supposedly five weeks out makes me wonder about why she'd not spent more time with Garth.


If we're accepting that this is a different Legion, then I'd probably agree with you more there. But its the same characters that were introduced in 1994 whose only real "reboot" was a continued series of traumatic events.


Yes, but DnA's main problem over 30 issues was not expanding focus that much outside of the Lost cast or the characters they introducted (TWolf). Its great that they finally showed a larger Legion in action, but just throwing them together for the purpose of a tribute story arc did nothing special for me other than remind me that we haven't seen a ton of focus on half of them, much like we are seeing in the Bendis Legion today. I will say that DnA did do a better job of that, but over 30 issues versus 12, that may not be saying much.


I agree and have really appreciate everyone's participation and perspectives in this as we near the end of the run. As a reminder, this thread was borne from Ann's poll back in the spring regarding DnA. I had originally responded with saying they should never have touched the book. My stance has definitely changed, as this re-reading and discussing these issues has brought me a new appreciation of what they did, but I'll get to the specifics of that when we actually DO reach the end. At first I disliked it for what could essentially be boiled down to the "not my Legion" argument, but it basically came down to "not my favorites." There's good, if inconsistent, writing here for sure, and many of these individual issues are really good.

This is exactly right, Ibby, and I don't think I articulated what I wanted to say there. They definitely could have used those extra historical panels and the 20th c heroes returning to feature more Legion.

Indeed, I agree GL, this is a continuing story from the same continuity, so I feel that comparisons to earlier issues (including characterization) are exactly appropriate here. It's not like we're comparing to the Adventure Era or TMK

Thanks for explaining your perspective, Ibby. I apologize if my comments made you feel unpleasant.

I think I understand now where your standards come from. I also think DnA were using other standards, not just the Marvel/DC paradigm of super-hero storytelling. They seemed to be drawing influences from movies and novels, as well.


Perhaps Rokk and Jaz had other things to talk about besides Connor.



I agree about the five weeks later thing. It was both unnecessary and confusing.


Every time a new creative team takes over, there's a shift in how characters are portrayed, what stories are told, and how they are told. Sometimes the transition is seamless, other times not. If our standards rely only on the way things were in past stories, I think we are missing out on what new teams have to offer.

I'm reminded of an interview given by Gerry Conway, writer of the Legion during the late '70s. Being under contract to write so many pages for DC per week, he had to use a short-hand approach to characterization: Garth is the guy with lightning powers, Imra is the telepath, etc. Writers since then have given us much more than that, and I think DnA understood the emotional pinnings and relationship dynamics of most of the Legionnaires. They've brought their own spin to these things, either intentionally or because they saw the characters in a different way than the previous team did. I'm not seeing anything in Rokk that rings false, though, as I've said, I don't have the benefit of re-reading the earlier issues as you have done.

I think the same is true for this "anniversary celebration." I'm sure I've read other stories in which the kick-off of the anniversary was in the "tribute" issue, and the rest of that storyline followed from that. But if we gauge this story only by what previous anniversary issues or tribute issues have been like, I think we are imposing unnecessary expectations. Your mileage may vary.



I think this is a valid criticism. Even Timber Wolf has now faded into the background.


I'm glad your perspective is changing. So is mine. I had forgotten many of these stories, and while it was unsatisfying to read the issues one month at a time, I find they read much better back to back.

Thank you, HWW. No worries, thank you for being receptive, I really appreciate it!

You make a good point that DNA were probably using a different paradigm - perhaps one in which they focused on a smaller group of "main" characters.

And I will affirm that I also enjoy reading different perspectives, as I've come to reconsider some things, while seeing others in a new light.

In the end, I can enjoy these stories for being a genuinely good, often great, read. Were they perfect? No. Were they worth buying, and are they worth re-reading? Definitely yes. And do they have their place in Legion history? of course!

I *SERIOUSLY* LOL'd at this having just finished reading #31!


Oh, absolutely - I would 100% expect for a new writing team to bring a new voice to the table and add to what the prior creative teams have done. That's what the wonderful thing about the Legion history is that you start out with "funny hats" but then a new writer comes on and layers on certain mannerisms, or a relationship or a breakup, and all those elements become part of that character's history, which is for me a huge appeal of the Legion. DnA did that as well, but for a much smaller subset of the Legion, and also shifted the narrative style to a much more SciFi bent. But what I didn't really like was them ignoring/leaving out a lot of little character things from before their term - The Chuck/Triad relationship, the Vi/Kinetix friendship, magic, Marla Latham, etc - lots of little things that made the universe an actual place that just up and vanished. It's their prerogative, of course, but it leaves their universe less fleshed out, IMO.

This is a great, short summary of the past thirty issues.

It also brought to mind that while there was a recent oral history writing about the creation of the v4 "Five Years Later" Legion, I think there really needs to be one for the reboot. It sure saw its share of drama with the Waid/Carlson reboot, to McAvennie's taking over and letting the title stall for a few years before he fired everyone for DnAnO. Then Lost and the restart, McAvennie's firing, and DnA's end on the title, which as I understand it, also had some drama. Not to mention bringing Gail Simone on board, who was not even told she was writing the final story arc for the Legion's (first) reboot.

It's been 20 years, and I know Abnett & Lanning aren't working together anymore, but I wonder if people are willing to talk through all this without feeling like they are burning bridges? Waid has been the most forthcoming of all, but mainly around the threeboot's overlap of the Lightning Saga stuff.

Anyway, I know *we* all would find it an interesting read, but not sure if it would get more visibility than the "Teenagers of the Future" essay collection.

Oh this also reminds me, given the title of the thread - I know we are very close, like 3 issues, from the end of the "DnA era" but I will review through the end of the series itself!

The Legion #31

Released March 31, 2004
DC Comics, Color
22 Pages

Housekeeping
Dan Abnett Andy Lanning Keith Giffen - Storytellers
Al Milgram - Inks
Sno Cone - Colors
Stephen Wacker - Apologizes for everything

Synopsis

The day after the Darkseid crisis, Chuck Taine and Gear are snooping around a lab, breaking into a case labeled Experiment N 13. While finding the experiment, they also come across some pictures of a blonde woman, which Chuck takes for "insurance." Legion World is apparently in bad shape, and they are grousing about having to clean up after the Legionnaires. They are on the hunt for something in Legion World, but hiding their real purpose being out in public with hazmat suits on which are just holoprojections that disappear as soon as they are out of view of others. Ten minutes later, an older Cub noses in on their business and wants to help. Chuck takes a shower in the Medlab, where Gym'll notes that the lab is impeccably clean. Gear is looking for something, but won't say what. Chuck & Gear run out of the lab.

Continuing with their search on the Command Deck, they note that the surfaces there are extremely clean also. Triad talks to Chuck, who gets nervous making Lyle wonder if he'd been drinking. Continuing their search, presumably for something they released, Chuck decides that they need a patsy - Superboy. They go to his extremely messy quarters and enlist his help, claiming that a xeno-parasite is on the loose on the station and it came from his room.

First stop is the Clubhouse. Gear suggests using Superboy's bad hygeine to lure out their prey, causing Superboy to yell and get them kicked out. On Sublevel 17, they find an entire habitat has been completely emptied. Superboy is suspicious and Gear lets loose the truth - they borrowed an experiment of Brainy's - nanite cleaners - to help with station cleanup, but it escaped. Soon the nanites form into a pale creature which attack Gear before vanishing, leaving him sparkling clean.

The trio moves on with Gear being magnetically pulled around. Superboy scans and finds that Rokk is, er, "using his powers" on Jazmin, which is what is affecting Gear. The nanites attack Superboy, release him, then fade away. Gear speculates that Superboy's 21st century germs were too much for the nanites.

Hours later, Brainiac 5 returns to his lab and notices his nanites are missing as well as a note. If Brainy doesn't say anything about the nanites, Chuck & Gear won't say anything about the "Private Holo" collection of his fellow Legionnaires.

Commentary

Well, that was completely different. It took me quite a bit of time to sort out how I felt about this story. I like "day in the life" stories, especially in the Legion, so I generally enjoyed it, but I'm generally not a fan of the later Giffen artwork, although I DO tend to like the nine-panel layout that most of the story used. The story was entertaining enough, I did find it more interesting to read than the Cub issue in the lead up to Robotica, but I did find it a little weird that they made Brainy out to be a bit of a pervert. Very much enjoyed the focus on Chuck and Gear, two characters that we haven't heard much from. This story was SO left-field that I wondered if Lanning and Abnett were just along for the ride and this was mainly Giffen's issue all up, especially given Chuck & Gear's dialogue. It didn't SOUND like them as we've heard them prior. I think I overall enjoyed the change of pace of this mostly harmless filler issue.

Legion World sure seemed to take a beating from Darkseid, didn't it? I mean it looks like there is a bite taken out of it. Very odd given the temporal nature of the experience. Still, you need a plot, and station cleanup is as good as any, I guess.

I did find it odd with the use of nanotechnology, Vi wasn't anywhere to be found or mentioned in the story.

The Cub scene is just painful to read. He's sure learned a bunch in five or six weeks...

Okay the clubhouse. We see Tinya and Brin talking and drinking - presumably with Tasmia and I guess an oddly dressed Jarth??? That whole panel is just weird. STILL no resolution on Jo & Tinya while she's there happily carousing with Brin and a glum Garth.

The question mark shield on Connor's shirt was an interesting choice.

I was confused somewhat by certain aspects of the Cos/Jaz "sex" scene - Either Cos and Jaz are into some weird s**t or reproduction on Braal is potentially lethal! Also, why is Connor happy he has dirt on Cos? Doesn't everyone know they are together at this point?

Good to see that Laurel Gand's existence was acknowledged, even in an odd way (I am assuming the blonde woman in the photo is Laurel).

Grade- B-

I liked it! though I did pretend a bit that this was not Reboot Chuck. Sorry to lead in with a... well, not exactly criticism, but it did feel jarring as Chuck is a fairly established Reboot character (debuting way back in LSH 76) and he's always been this earnest, good-natured, sincere, honest type - so him being the plotter and shirker in this issue felt odd. But once I got past that, I thoroughly enjoyed the issue

Gear was more the straight man here, though not as established. And he has had some humorous, sarcastic moments under DNA so it was easier to accept.

Re Cos/Jaz, yeah that's an interesting one. Do other Braalians lose control of their powers on Braal? Or maybe houses and walls are made of non ferro-magnetic materials, to enable security and privacy!

Connor in his baggy loose clothing seemed to fit quite well.

I thought it was clever that the nanites ate themselves because of all of Connor's 20th century germs (on the other side, how did he not cause a plague on Legion World by onw?)

I found the dialogue funny. "Even I've never been kicked out before!" "And to be fair, you've tried!"

Brainy as a pervert, I can kinda buy. I guess. It was funny, so I can buy it. Also, the In- at the end... Invisible Kid, like Lyle? tee hee.

Yeah - it's not like DnA wrote a whole lot of Chuck, but when they did, it seemed to be in line with the PMS team. That's why I'm pretty convinced that this whole issue was a Giffen operation. Maybe DnA provided a rough outline of a story, but I don't think they did much of anything else here.


A REALLY good point.


This was my favorite line of the issue, but I can't envision Chuck doing the kind of stuff to get kicked out of a bar.


Yeah, after the kiss Brainy gave to Lyle a few issues ago, I just assumed it was him!

#31 . . .

Keith Giffen is the David Letterman of Legion comics. His sense of humor is so dry and off-the-wall that you either get it or you don't. (For the record, I never warmed up to Letterman.)

This story works within the "Giffenverse"--that is, the humor is effective as long as we accept that the characters behave in dumb ways and get into sitcom shenanigans. The story's premise is that Chuck and Gear scheme to make their cleanup duties go smoother, so they steal nanite technology from Brainiac 5. When things go awry, they bring in Superboy to solve their problem because he's, you know, dumber than they are. Hijinks ensue, and nobody takes anything very seriously. Gear is lifted and dropped by the nanites, but Chuck and Kon aren't concerned. In fact, they are so unconcerned that they make jokes about Cos and Jaz's love life, whatever it happens to be.

Let me get this straight: All plant and animal life in Habitat Deck 43 has been consumed by the nanites, yet nobody except our three bumbling champions seems to notice or care? This is a huge deal--or it should be. What was the purpose of Habitat Deck 43? Was food grown there? For such a large space, it must serve some purpose. Somebody should notice that it's been literally cleaned out.

In other words, the humor works if you don't think too deeply about the ramifications. Nothing wrong with that, but the story didn't tell me anything new or interesting. Brainy's secret porn stash and whatever Cos and Jaz are doing are merely gags. I don't believe there's any follow-up in later stories. (This is the first time I've heard of Cos losing control of his magnetic powers, though. What is it with DnA and Legionnaires losing control of their powers?)

As for Cub . . . he does whatever the story requires him to do at this point. He's aged to the point where he can get into all kinds of intentional trouble. This could have been an interesting angle to explore--Cub as the "little brother" of the Legionnaires who rebels against their do-gooder ways and causes mischief. But DnA aren't going there. They aren't going anywhere with Cub.

Reading "Housekeeping" was like watching an Abbot & Costello routine or a Three Stooges short--a fun diversion but not as clever as those long-ago comedy masters.

That part was indeed clever and showed an understanding of how hygiene standards do change over time.

Not only does Kon carry 20th-century germs, but so does M'Onel! But maybe a thousand years in the Stasis Zone had its own cleansing effect.


I enjoyed this line, too. If we're looking for reasons why there was no follow-up to the earlier Chuck-Lu flirtation, perhaps a clue can be found here. Chuck's too busy exploring his "bad boy" side to follow up with the ultra-efficient Triad.

That would be an interesting spin. On a Legion World full of super humans, and with his Bouncing Boy ship piloting sidelined and now basically taking on a desk and maintenance job, maybe Chuck is being a bad boy to feel some of the excitement and purpose he felt as a Sub (Cos? little squad in LW4).

Yep. I think I was able to go with it given the change of pace. It's nice to have these in the mix now and again.


I had a similar thought - thank goodness there were no people in there!


I'm convinced that Giffen wrote him in there solely for the "Hock a loogie" line.