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 the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Jul 2003
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Legionnaire!
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OP
Legionnaire!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,523 |
after doing my GIFFEN redesigned uniforms POLL .... it made me wish V3 had carried on longer ?? [ btw i LOVED the 'FIVE YEARS LATER' / TMK issues ]
but what would it have been like to see the LEGION fall apart !!!
someone [ can't remember now ?? are they still 'around' ] actually wrote out plotlines and covers for issues #64 - 125 of V3 !!!
who else read them ??? i thought they were very good, i really liked the ANNUAL that featured LAUREL GAND and how SATURN GIRL was the only LEGIONNAIRE that knew she had taken SUPERGIRL's place in history !!!
and in the final part of the story IMRA removes the statue of KARA from Legion HQ !!!
[ that image was so clear in my mind !!! ]
anyone have any favourites ???
Matthew.
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,860
Time Trapper
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Time Trapper
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They sure are great reading. I'd have to go back to refresh my memory, but off-hand two favorites would be the issue in which Brainy and Laurel split up, she goes off with Rond and the Black Dawn story.
Holy Cats of Egypt!
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,699
Leader
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Leader
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Matthew's talking about "What if the Levitz run had continued for five more years?" at Get-a-Life-Boy's site. Don Sakers takes the fleshing-out seriously, and it's both plausible and thought-provoking. He even created mock covers for about half of the imaginary issues. He does have at least one hilarious aside, though, accompanying his postulating of v3 n100 (September 1992), "Black Dawn Part Six" -- NOTE: #100 is a special, double-size issue with a die-cut, hologram-enhanced cover of 24-karat gold, polybagged with a complete set of 250 Legion trading cards, a Legion sweatsuit, a toy Legion cruiser, a real working Flight Ring, and a medallion which allows the bearer entry to an LSH meeting. Somehow, the writers manage to work in guest appearances by everyone who has ever been in a Legion comic. In celebration of the Legion's start in Adventure Comics, issue #100 is cover-priced at twelve cents.Now, I'd bag and board THAT. Wouldn't you? {g}
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,644
Trap Timer
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Trap Timer
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I've always been a bit bothered by these being referred to as the "Lost 'Levitz'issues", as if this is what Levitz would have written if he had continued the title. The plots are entirely what Giffen and the Bierbaums imagined for the "Five-Year Gap", and really have little to do with Levitz.
Another problem is that they take it that five years worth of issues is equal to five years worth of Legion years, which simply isn't the case. There really should be about twice as many issues to cover the "gap" period.
That said, it is an interesting project, and a fascinating read.
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,523
Legionnaire!
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OP
Legionnaire!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,523 |
thanks for posting the LINK ... Grey !!!
Matthew.
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,168
Wanderer
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Wanderer
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Posts: 9,168 |
It's interesting that some people are interested in seeing this chapter of Legion history. TMK got enough flak for telling dark stories, yet Legion v4 #1 starts pretty much at "rock bottom" and depicts the road back towards the light. Stories that depict the "5 year gap" would only get more and more dark and depressing, showing the deaths of various characters and ending with the dissolusion of the Legion.
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 17,274
Time Trapper
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Time Trapper
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This would be another great Elseworlds tale if DC hadn't sprocked up and cancelled the line.
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,699
Leader
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[EDE] {[...] The plots are entirely what Giffen and the Bierbaums imagined for the "Five-Year Gap", and really have little to do with Levitz.} Sakers makes a different "what-if," though. If Levitz had continued to work with Giffen, even if the stories had taken such a slow descent into chaos, they would have -- he contends -- at least been evocative and resonant with readers. Sakers' larger point is that TMK's choice to leave five years of the Legion entirely untold -- except by flashbacks, references outside the published comics, and reconstructions -- was a profound mistake. And that it only worsened the mistakes TMK made in telling their own stories directly. The sensibilities of a Levitz might have minimized the overall damage, at least. I find it hard to dispute him. And I agree with Sakers\' detailed assessment of the TMK era as a whole, which concludes: [...] Die-hard Legion fans, reading the entire series at once (rather than waiting for individual issues to come out once a month) can probably get something out of these comics -- if they are fully conversant with Legion history, and have copies of the various Who's Who and Mayfair Games background materials. Otherwise, reading them is an exercise in frustration, tedium, and disgust.
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,699
Leader
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Leader
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Scott and Gary might find an "under construction" graphic that Don Sakers created to be useful and witty, if new or modified areas of Legion World are in process -- outside the scope of the UBB software, that is. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.readersadvice.com/lsh/lshconst.jpg)
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 17,274
Time Trapper
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Time Trapper
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Posts: 17,274 |
Originally posted by Greybird: Scott and Gary might find an "under construction" graphic that Don Sakers created to be useful and witty, if new or modified areas of Legion World are in process -- outside the scope of the UBB software, that is.
That's kinda cool Grey. I might have to ask Don if I can use that for my own site.
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 17,274
Time Trapper
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Time Trapper
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Here is a rundown of the Five Year Gap, based on he Mayfair sourcebook and conjecture, by John Censullo: The last we saw of the Legionnaires prior to the "Five Years Later" storyline was at the conclusion of the Magic Wars on June 23rd 2989 (LSH v3 #63). Hints to the events of the Five Year Gap were given in small doses in both LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES [fourth series] and in Mayfair Games' 2995: The Legion of Super-Heroes Sourcebook. This article attempts to combine these clues into a cohesive chronology of that missing period in the Legion's careers. (Note: There were a few instances where the two sources differed on dates, in those cases I went with the data in the comic book series).
THE FIVE YEAR GAP
Year One
In September 2989, Earth removes its polymer shield. Earthgov debt soars. (LSH v4 #30)
In October 2989, the United Planets economy collapses. Many, such as the Coalition For Human-Humanoid Preservation, believe the rumors that the collapse was the result of a Khund conspiracy. Months later, a leading group of economists would conclude that the collapse occurred for other reasons. (LSH v4 #1, Mayfair)
On November 2nd 2989, Tayla Wellington is elected President of Earth, defeating Hass An. (LSH v4 #30)
On December 14th 2989, Thom Kallor sends Nura Nal a letter, ending their relationship. (Mayfair)
On January 9th 2990, Laurel Gand resigns from the Legion to fight back the Khundish invasion of U.P. space. (Mayfair)
On January 19th 2990, a mutual assistance pact is signed with the Dominion, Earthgov officially secedes from the United Planets. (LSH v4 #30) (Note: Date given as July 24th 2990 in Mayfair)
On February 26th 2990, Saturn Girl resigns to tend to her family and its business in the wake of the Validus Plague on Winath. (Mayfair)
On March 17th 2990, former Legion Academy student Nightwind joins the Legion. (Mayfair)
On April 12th 2990, Chameleon Boy resigns to accept the chairmanship of Brande Enterprises. (Mayfair)
On April 13th 2990, Madame President Tayla Wellington sends a letter to the Global Council of the Planet Earth regarding the Legion problem. (LSH v4 #1)
On April 14th 2990, Richard Kent Shakespeare a.k.a. Impulse joins the Legion. (Mayfair)
On June 7th 2990, the Legion Academy closes. (Mayfair)
Year Two
On July 6th 2990, the United Planets Militia Academy is formed by the Instructor Generals, Chuck and Luornu Durgo Taine. (LSH v4 #16, Mayfair)
By July 24th 2990, the United Planets has lost roughly 50% of its original thousand worlds, either through secession or Khund invasion. (Mayfair) The United Planets Council, the administrative structure, and the Science Police relocate to Weber's World. (LSH v4 #13, Mayfair)
On September 23rd 2990, the Human Rights Interstellar announces that its latest list of Human Rights Violators includes the mother world of the United Planets, Earth. (Mayfair)
On October 8th 2990, The Incumbency Restriction is repealed; Tayla Wellington begins successful run for re-election. (LSH v4 #30)
On Feb 10th 2991, Atmos and Karate Kid [II] join the Legion. (Mayfair)
On March 5th 2991, Sensor Girl receives a plea from Orando to return as their queen. (Mayfair)
On March 20th 2991, Sensor Girl resigns from the Legion and returns to Orando to reacquire her crown; Timber Wolf is left as acting leader. (Mayfair)
On March 23rd 2991, the Daily Planet reports that Ultra Boy and Phantom Girl plan to wed on June 9th at the Prism Cliff Chapel on Deltwan. (LSH v4 #2)
On March 25th 2991, Projectra renounces her Sensor Girl powers and is re-coronated as Orando's queen. (Mayfair)
On March 30th 2991, the official announcement of the marriage of Ultra Boy and Phantom Girl is made. (LSH v4 #2)
On April 12th 2991, Phantom Girl and her cousin Enya Wazzo are lost in an interdimensional accident while traveling from Bgztl to Earth. (LSH v4 #2, LSH v4 Annual #1, Mayfair)
On April 19th 2991, Atmos resigns from the Legion to pursue independent ventures. (Mayfair)
On May 8th 2991, the search for Phantom Girl is officially declared dead by the Science Police. (LSH v4 #2) The grieving Ultra Boy resigns over the death of his fiancé and returns to Rimbor. (Mayfair)
On May 26th 2991, Mekt Ranzz is released from Labyrinth Rehabilitative Institute into the custody of his brother Garth. (Mayfair)
On May 28th 2991, Crystal Kid, Echo, and Reflecto join the Legion. (Mayfair)
On June 12th 2991, Braal declares war on Imsk and launches a completely unprovoked attack on the planet. Shrinking Violet resigns from the Legion to serve in the Imskian Army in the Braal-Imsk war. (Mayfair)
In June 2991, Rokk Krinn and Lydda Jath are married. (Mayfair)
On June 25th 2991, Rokk Krinn is inducted into the Braal army. (Mayfair)
Year Three
On July 5th 2991, Sun Boy is named unofficial temporary leader, as pressures of the Black Dawn crisis mount and Timber Wolf's mental state deteriorates. (Mayfair)
On July 7th 2991, Reflecto is killed in a duel with the Molecule Master during an investigation of the Black Dawn crisis. Although Reflecto's powers protected him from most of the Molecule Master's attacks, he was unaware that the android was also releasing a slow-acting poisonous gas, which he ultimately died from. (Mayfair)
On July 23rd 2991, a state of emergency is declared, elections are suspended. (LSH v4 #30)
On August 14th 2991, the crisis known as Black Dawn occurs. Timber Wolf, Wildfire, Blok, Sensor Girl, and Dream Girl battle Doctor Regulus, who is attempting to destroy the Earth's sun. He declares that with his device, Molock Hanscom will show the universe that no planet welches on a loan to the new Starfinger. Suddenly, Regulus realizes the detonator has been triggered, causing it to explode. Fellow Legionnaires Sun Boy, Impulse, Lightning Lad, Polar Boy, and Star Boy rush to their aid. Timber Wolf is caught partly exposed when the radiation sweeps past, apparently giving him severe radiation exposure. Sensor Girl and Dream Girl sense that the Sun is cooling down. Sun Boy states that his solar powers won't be enough to help. Wildfire gets an idea. He merges his energy with the Sun's, enabling him to control the internal implosion and prevent its collapse. Wildfire is lost and believed killed. It is postulated that full Dominion control of Earthgov began at this time. (LSH v4 #30, #52, Mayfair) (Note: Date given as August 12th 2991 in Mayfair)
On August 15th 2991, Karate Kid [II] resists arrest and flees, ending his Legion membership. (Mayfair) (Note: Date for Black Dawn given as August 12th 2991 in Mayfair, this event adjusted from August 13th)
On August 17th 2991, Dream Girl, Dawnstar, and Blok resign in the wake of Black Dawn. Dream Girl becomes High Seer of Naltor. Blok goes on a quest to find out more about his people. (LSH v4 #28, Mayfair) (Note: Date for Black Dawn given as August 12th 2991 in Mayfair, this event adjusted from August 15th)
On August 19th 2991, Crystal Kid resigns in the wake of Black Dawn. (LSH v4 #28, Mayfair) (Note: Date for Black Dawn given as August 12th 2991 in Mayfair, this event adjusted from August 17th)
On August 23rd 2991, Element Lad resigns from the team to return to Trom. (LSH v4 #28, Mayfair)
On September 1st 2991, Impulse flees Earth to escape arrest, ending his Legion membership. (LSH v4 #28, Mayfair)
On September 4th 2991, Echo resigns and disappears to join the Carggg-Shwar social-resistance ring known as "The Gnats". Tellus resigns to return to Hykraius, eventually joining the Dark Circle. (LSH v4 #28, Mayfair)
On September 12th 2991, Lightning Lass resigns from the team to return to Winath. (Mayfair)
On September 14th 2991, Sun Boy resigns, leaving Polar Boy as acting leader. (LSH v4 #28, Mayfair)
On September 24th 2991, Fire Lad joins the Legion. (Mayfair)
On October 8th 2991, the Venado Bay Massacre on Braal-13 occurs. The Imskian weapon known as the Damper leaves 4,000 Braalian soldiers dead and 1,500 missing. Rokk Krinn loses his magnetic powers, Vi loses an eye. (LSH v4 #20, Mayfair)
On October 20th 2991, Chlorophyll Kid, Infectious Lass, Porcupine Pete, and Visi-Lad join the Legion. (Mayfair)
On October 21st 2991, Salu Digby submits her official protest of the use of the Damper on Braal-13. (Mayfair)
On November 7th 2991, Prince Evillo returns as Supreme Ruler of the planet Tartarus. (Mayfair)
On November 27th 2991, Color Kid and Stone Boy join the Legion. (Mayfair)
On January 17th 2992, the Legionnaire Fire Lad becomes engaged in a struggle with police while attempting to apprehend a graffiti artist. (Mayfair)
On January 20th 2992, the Legionnaire Porcupine Pete is detained on charges of interfering with an officer. (Mayfair)
On January 21st 2992, leading economics authorities adjourn Rebirth Summit I, condemning the Khund Conspiracy theory behind the Great Collapse, instead deciding it was caused by a combination of massively over-extended credit, widescale ecological damage, and runaway spending on anti-Khund fortifications. (LSH v4 #1)
On March 15th 2992, Storm Boy joins the Legion. (Mayfair)
On March 28th 2992, Infectious Lass is forced to resign and go underground to avoid Earthgov prosecution. (Mayfair)
On April 9th 2992, Chlorophyll Kid, Color Kid, and Porcupine Pete resign, and begin underground work against Earthgov. (Mayfair)
On May 27th 2992, Calamity King joins the Legion. (Mayfair)
On June 21st 2992, Kivun Roxxas is released from his imprisonment on Labyrinth for unknown reasons. (LSH v4 #10, Mayfair)
On June 30th 2992, Invisible Kid [II] resigns to organize the underground resistance to Earthgov. (Mayfair)
Year Four
On July 6th 2992, Polar Boy, leader of the Legion of Super-Heroes, sends a letter to President Wellington regretfully announcing the disbanding of the Legion. (LSH v4 #1, #30, Mayfair) Most Legionnaires join the resistance and form the SUB-Heroes. (Mayfair) On the planet Tharn, Mordru is made Supreme Teacher of the Sorcerers' World and the Bearer of the Robes of All Power. (LSH v4 #6).
On July 29th 2992, Gim Allon, formerly known as Colossal Boy, re-applies to the Science Police. (Mayfair)
On August 22nd 2992, Polar Boy is arrested in a pizza hall for attempting to rally anti-Earthgov dissent. (LSH v4 #11, Mayfair)
On August 28th 2992, Ral Benem, formerly called Chlorophyll Kid, escapes from the custody of the Science Police, after being arrested for illegal interference with an S.P. investigation. (Mayfair) Mysa Nal marries Mordru. (Mayfair)
On September 9th 2992, Dirk Morgna, formerly Sun Boy, joins Earthgov as a spokesman and liaison. (Mayfair)
On December 12th 2992, Karate Kid [II] is captured by the Science Police. (Mayfair)
In January 2993, former Legionnaire Calamity King, who had volunteered for ECC espionage work, is exposed as a double agent for the resistance movement. (Mayfair) A Protean is discovered tampering with Earthgov-secured Legion records. The Protean escapes. (LSH v4 #32)
On April 2nd 2993, on Talok VIII, Grev Mallor agrees to marry Lady Memory on August 14th. (LSH v4 #15)
On April 10th 2993, Char Burrane a.k.a. Starfinger is found brutally murdered on Janda. (Mayfair)
On June 12th 2993, Crystal Kid is arrested for disseminating anti-Earthgov propaganda. (Mayfair)
Year Five
On August 14th 2993, Grev Mallor marries Lady Memory on Talok VIII. (LSH v4 #15, Mayfair)
In October 2993, the Quebec City powersphere is firebombed. (LSH v4 #17)
In November 2993, it is reported that the Winathococcus Validus bacteria was introduced into the population on Winath in 2990. (LSH v4 #3)
On November 19th 2993, the Dominion Cover-Operations agency reports to the Dominion Earthgov Embassy on Earth that the feasibility study on the return of Marzal to the Earth dimension is completed. Theoretically, they can return the extradimensional island to a location of their choosing, catching the Marzallians by surprise, enabling Earthgov forces to destroy them. (Mayfair)
On January 17th 2994, Marzal re-materializes in the heart of an African jungle; the city is destroyed by Earthgov. Only a few citizens, including former Legionnaire Tyroc, escape to safety. Tyroc joins the underground resistance. (LSH v4 #16, Mayfair)
On February 10th 2994, Dirk Morgna protests the harassment and confinement of the Allen twins for their supposed involvement in the Quebec powersphere disaster. (Mayfair)
On March 3rd 2994, Anton Relnic of Earth is named Chairman of the United Planets Council. (Mayfair)
On June 27th 2994, Lauren Gand is born to Laurel Gand and Rond Vidar. (Mayfair)
On September 13th 2994, Eve Aries of Titan a.k.a. Saturn Queen becomes the 12th wife of Prince Evillo of Tartarus. (Mayfair)
On October 23rd 2994, Cham decides to re-form the Legion. (LSH v4 #1, Mayfair)
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,168
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,168 |
So it appears that Sensor Girl was at Black Dawn after she supposedly gave up her powers to reclaim her throne on Orando?
Interesting rundown of events -- thanks for posting them. I'm even more sure I don't need to see a series to show us the way the Legion disintegrated - especially since most of the Legion I'm familiar with leave and are replaced by subs and other peripheral characters.
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,457
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,457 |
I wondered about the Sensor GIrl thing as well. Some of the stuff might have been ok to see, but I don't think I'd want to read most of them in comic form.
I still someday hope for a continuation of the series from Magic Wars on...
Touch the magic...
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,644
Trap Timer
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Trap Timer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,644 |
Bumping this old thread to share the unfortunate news that Don Sakers recently passed away. Per Paul Levitz on Facebook: One of the joys of writing LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES was the passionate group of fans the characters had. Some became good friends over the years, one or two collaborators. Sad to say, one whose fanac gave me particular pleasure has just passed. Don Sakers created the 'Lost Levitz Legion' -- extrapolating from my run to devise an issue by issue litany of subsequent titles and loglines of what he thought I might have written if I stayed on the series. He had a good grasp on my approach, and the effort involved delighted me. Don was a science fiction writer in his own right, but for me, his magic came to life in that one moment of channelling my stories. My sympathies to his family and friends.
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,293
Legionnaire!
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Legionnaire!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,293 |
Aw man...  RIP... I almost hate to say it, but I feel like we need to build an "In Memoriam" wall for the creators and the fans....
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,278
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,278 |
Sad to hear. His "Get-a-Life Boy" pages are great and I have referred to them multiple times in the past.
Last edited by stile86; 05/20/21 04:59 PM. Reason: spelling flub
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,293
Legionnaire!
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Legionnaire!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,293 |
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 84,969
Unseen, not unheard
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Unseen, not unheard
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 84,969 |
This is very sad. I remember reading Don's work with a lot of interest.
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,404
Nowhere Girl
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Nowhere Girl
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Posts: 6,404 |
Still "Fickles" to my friends.
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847
Tempus Fugitive
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Tempus Fugitive
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 31,847 |
Really sorry to hear this. My thoughts are with his family and friends.
Back when I was a kid, I'd have a line of my self made titles, with little plots outlining each issue as I went. I remember getting a lovely rush of nostalgia when I first saw his Levitz continued run.
That was a long time back, where there didn't seem to be a lot of Legion sites around. His pages stood out as a lovely bit of creativity linking the eras together.
A lot of my Bits notes are still in this format, and I like to think this inspired that.
I really liked the cover images too, and still smiled fondly at it, when I last saw it a few years back.
"...not having to believe in a thing to be interested in it and not having to explain a thing to appreciate the wonder of it."
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 750
Active
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Active
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IIRC there are actual "lost Levitz" plots such as the quest Shady was taking an injured Mon-El to "find the Last Psion."
Last edited by Korbal; 12/18/21 05:07 PM.
"I am the LEGION--you colossal Jerk!"--Garth Ranzz LEGION #63
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Re: the 'Lost' LEVITZ issues ......
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,404
Nowhere Girl
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Nowhere Girl
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,404 |
IIRC there are actual "lost Levitz" plots such as the quest Shady was taking an injured Mon-El to "find the Last Psion." I, for one, would have loved to have seen that happen, instead of...what actually did happen. 
Still "Fickles" to my friends.
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