Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes On Kinetix and Power Lust

I kind of liked the whole "anything goes" aspect of the line-up that it felt like the early reboot had. I actually thought it was kind of cool that some of the "classic" Legionnaires like Ultra Boy showed up but weren't members of the Legion at all, and that there were these new people who'd never been seen before, and there was at least the possibility that perhaps long-time characters who'd never been Legionnaires before could show up as members of the team ("Oh boy, I wonder who's going to be the Legion draftee from Lallor?"). I was pretty excited by that at first.

In regards to the retroboot, one of things that's frustrating for me is that, since they are clearly significantly revising Legion history and they are clearly blending in ideas from later versions of the Legion, I don't understand why they can't just revise things in such a way that we get all of the great characters that were created after 1989, such as Kinetix, somehow in-continuity.

to that. There's nothing stopping planets like Aleph from showing up. It's also not like they HAVE to use them all as Legionnaires. The Legion universe has plenty of room for Kinetix, or Kono, or Kent Shakespeare to pop up as Academy cadets or Science Police officers.

The wanton killing of Kinetix should, in my opinion, be put in a box with other stuff from Legion of Three Worlds like seeing Brin and Ayla together and Sarya alive and Validus once again, well, Validus. That box should then tossed into a black hole, never to be heard from or mentioned again.

^^ best post EVER. There wasn't really a point in killing her, or Threeboot Sun Boy and Element Lad...

And I was rejoicing that we were seeing hints of Kinetix's old personality in 3 Worlds, too.

I (and another poster here named Omni) have a few ideas on how Kinetix could return, though, and not have it be too cheap...

Hint hint, Mordru absorbed Zoe's magic - but Mysa absorbed Mordru!

Oh, and Mysa's line - "Even in death, she will never know peace" - that was just CRUEL.

That origin story in the annual was one of the best reboot stories, IMO.

Building up Kinetex to become the emerald empress only to have Vi become possessed was a huge misfire. And it lead to the 20th century storyline, which most fans agree is when the post boot jumped the shark.

I kinda thought zoe's death in legion of 3 worlds set her up to be resurrected. Isn't her spirit like part of Mysa now or something?

Yes. They could have salvaged it, if only they'd explored Zoe's power lust more. But after Legionnaires 41 it was kind of dropped - when the Legion fought Mordru again Zoe never even made a move on the Eye.

While it would have been nice if Zoe had outgrown the power lust normally, she didn't... it was too abrupt.

I agree, that was an awesome origin story. It really pulled me in.

It could have - Mordru absorbed Zoe's magic, and Mysa absorbed Mordru. So Zoe could still be somewhere in there.

I just hope the addition of Glorith, a magic user, to the main team won't be a bar to Zoe returning.

I found Annual 6 and #66, and enjoyed them both. Zoe is indeed a strong and fascinating character, probably too much of a challenge for certain small-minded fanboy writers. *cough* (Johns) *cough*

And I had no idea that her origin story in Annual 6 was drawn by Alan Davis! That was a treat, as was seeing Shvaughn starring in the framing sequence.

Glad you enjoyed them! It's really disappointing how off the rails her storyline seems to go after those early appearances. And I'd totally forgotten about the Alan Davis art in that! It's been ages since I've read it.

That annual has a special place in my heart. Glad you found them, FL! I lent that issue to a close friend, and Zoe ended up becoming her favorite Legionnaire after she borrowed the rest of my run.

I wish Gail Simone had been able to use her "true" self when she wrote an arc for that version of the Legion...

I think that having Vi become the Emerald Empress instead of Zoe was a deliberate bit of misdirection. Zoe had been set up from the start for the part and I think the writers always intended to throw the readers a curve ball with that one. Aside from the Twentieth Century stories, I thought it worked. Vi, as she was portrayed in the early reboot, was the perfect host for the Eye: easily dominated with low self esteem. If the Eye had any choice in host, I'd be surprised to see it bond to a strong-willed, magically adept person like Zoe. If the Eye has its own agenda, Zoe would be the last person it could rely on to carry it out.

That said, it surprised me a bit to see such a kind appraisal of Zoe's character. I'll have to re-read the early Reboot issues, but she always struck me as the most mercenary of the newer characters. Still out to help people, as far as it goes, but interested in power for the sake of power as much as anything else. Maybe a re-read will change that perception.

See, one of the reasons I hated the Eye storyline is because what it did to the characterization of Vi. She started out incredibly shy, then we saw her gradually gaining more self-confidence which each adventure, and then suddenly out of nowhere it turns out that all of her apparent character growth was really just Eye manipulation. I despised that revelation so much.

Zoe went through a number of physical changes - the girl, the super-powered girl, the girl with the tail, the SP officer, the Robotican... there were probably others I don't recall offhand. I think Mysa may have outnumbered her in terms of versions of the same person (i.e. not a rebooted character). Possibly something in the nature of magic wielders, or those who mess with magic objects, leads to changes of form.

I always got the impression that she loved power most for the feeling of "perfection" it gave. Every time she used the power to do good, she'd get a kick out of being significant and useful. So yes, the doing good had "selfish" roots.

For that matter, her need of self-validation would have both made it easier for the Eye to seduce her, while at the same time make her slightly less appealing because she wasn't that inherently strong.

As for Violet, I'm just glad that her self-confidence remained after she was freed from the Eye.

I remember DNA explained that her being transformed into a terrorform that was different from all the others was a result of her Alephian heritage AND her mystically-altered DNA. Brrrr. Playing with magic is scary!

Most of the Teachers on Sorcerer's World seemed to have altered physiologies as well, usually with an elemental theme.

It could be neat to have part of training on Sorcerer's World being forced to accept the consequences of miscast spells, on occasion, to serve as reminders that the powers they tamper with are fickle and dangerous, and to not get overconfident. Someone like Mysa would show up on Sorcerer's World a caucasian redhead, but a miscast glamer during her training could have bleached the color from her skin and hair, and, at her Teacher's insistence, she's not allowed to use magic to correct that, so that she carries it around as a reminder of the risks of the power she's tapping into.

Mordru, interestingly, is the only Sorcerer's World native we see a lot who *doesn't* have some sort of magically altered physiology, suggesting that he never learned that lesson (or that he went ahead and magically fixed and covered up any mistakes he's made, rather than be reminded every day that magic is not a plaything, and deserves respect from those who would manipulate it).

Interesting idea regarding miscast spells, although given the mistakes one makes when learning, the teachers might only force one to live with the spell if it was cast for bad reasons - revenge, hubris, etc.

You don't get much higher on the power lust spectrum than Mordru. Kinetix might well have come under his influence, in a different version of the Legion.

True, and, even if it was a 'bad reason,' I imagine the Teachers wouldn't require you to live with the consequences of a miscast spell that makes you a danger to everyone around you, or is horribly limiting or whatever.

Or been harshly smacked down (perhaps even more harshly than her situation warranted!), due to the precedent Mordru had set.

After Mordru, the Teachers / Mysa / etc. might be a bit quick to pull the trigger on mystics that they feel are getting too close to the 'dark side.'

Maybe they'd make the consequences temporary. Like, "I'll help you reverse that next week, once you've learned your lesson."

The way Postboot Mysa manipulated Kinetix was partly because she felt Zoe was too power-hungry. Unfortunately, it seems that the Preboot Teachers didn't really act much on the policing side. When Mysa was transformed into the Hag, they didn't strip her of her magic; they merely banished her. so there was nothing stopping her from using her powers for evil.

Hi everyone - Sorry to be resurrecting such an old (almost 10 years, are you kidding me???) thread, but I am in the middle of several era rereads, and this thread seemed to speak to my curiosity versus starting up a whole new thread. I just finished up with the Emerald Legion story for the Post-ZH Legion, and I had this nagging feeling about the whole nature of Kinetix and the Eye from the editorial side of the house, so I was searching the forums to see if my question had been addressed. From what I could see, the closest comment I could find was this from Director Lad:


I will need to rely on some of the folks who were on Usenet back in the day when Peyer, McCraw & crew would participate in some fashion. But I want to say that I remember a statement to the effect of, "Yes, the intent was for Kinetix to be the Empress, but you all figured that out early on, so we made the change to Violet."

Did I hallucinate that, or did that actually happen that way? The Emerald Princess sketch from Jeff Moy seems to indicate that there were indeed plans, but that could have been Jeff doing designs (which he's great at).

For the benefit of anyone who hasn't seen this, since it doesn't seem to be in this thread:

That's pretty much how I remember it went on Usenet chat, but not sure if it was the the creators themselves that made the switch to Vi or if the incoming editor asked them to throw a curveball.

GL - don't apologize for re-igniting an old discussion

Looking at that sketch, a comment is "even though she has control of the Eye". I wonder if the original plan was for her to have found the Eye, use it visibly/obviously as a force for good (she has the Legion belt!), then have it slowly corrupt her... then Mordru would have come in, wanting it back?

... I'm also trying to remember when the Post-ZH Legion enacted the "only inherent powers" rule. L* 43 for sure, but most likely as early as L*37 when they were writing a constitution. Would the Emerald Eye have disqualified her?

It's a good question - KC Carlson was hip deep in everything Legion at that time, as well as being active on Usenet as I remember, so he was definitely in on all of that, but I'm not sure who communicated that to the masses. Or if that decision came from farther up the editorial chain above Carlson.



Be careful what you wish for.


Its a fascinating question that makes me wonder what the whole plan originally was. Could they have done the "Emerald Vi" but then have Zoe save the day and end up with this transformation? Was the 20th Century cross-promotion another catalyst for changing the plot? Could the two end results have still worked (I think so, given that the Mordru story resolved while half the team was in the past). Were there other reasons around the nature of the Eye?


That may depend on whether she still retained her original powers. Well, regardless, I'm sure they would have written in some kind of special dispensation like they always do

Ooh retaining her original powers would have made sense. The Eye could easily have restored them...

Lots of what-could-have-beens. Would Kinetix have proposed marriage to Mordru (like Emerald Vi did) as a distraction? (does not sound at all like Zoe, frankly). Would Gim still have died, and his death been Zoe's catalyst for going nuts (so basically like what happened with VI)? How would the Mysa/Zoe dynamic have played out?

Definitely, and its why I'd love to know how far down the original path the creative team had gone in their planning. Emerald Vi still seems like it could have happened for exactly the reasons Director Lad gave, but from there it has to diverge significantly. Mysa is another big variable. Regardless, there has to be some kind of a big battle where Zoe comes out on top with control of the eye, if that's even possible. If that's as part of freeing Violet or a separate arc where she goes after it separately are both very interesting threads to pull.

It's hard to say. Sometimes you can find some of these details out from creators, so we'll see.

Regardless, once Violet was freed from the Eye, the creative team just basically did nothing with Zoe, and no one but McCraw could write her worth a damn.