Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities DC vs. Marvel

I am a lifelong DC fan. I've always read more DC books than Marvel and Legion is the only book I currently read on a regular basis. My 2nd favorite DC book is Teen Titans, which I collected religiously until the days of Pantha and Baby Wildebeast (puh-lease) when I finally couldn't take it anymore and jumped ship. I used to read Avengers and X-men but finally quite because I couldn't afford the 10 X-men spinoff titles that you need to read to get the full story in the Marvel verse.

Here's something I've long wondered about. In spite of my favoritism toward DC, I've always felt that the Marvel books had much more complex characters and meatier stories. Does anybody else agree with this? Why is this? Can DC not afford to hire decent writers, or is there some editorial policy to keep their characters complex lite? I can't think of a single DC character who has anything even approaching the complexity of motivations, emotions, sympathies, alliances, etc. of say Magneto, Quicksilver, Namor, Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye, Cyclops, Iron Man, Daredevil, Spiderman, etc etc. I'm talking complexity, not complicated. Don't even get me started on the convoluted messes that Wonder Girl/Troia and Supergirl have turned into.

Granted, I only read the one DC book currently, but just going by the last 2 Legion reboots, I really have to ask "Where's the meat?" And having Cosmic Boy act like a total prick for no apparent reason and Triplicate Girl thumbing her nose at Invisible Kid for what he supposedly told Brainy for umpteen issues is not what I'm talking about. This is not depth of characterization. This is assigning each character a one-trick-pony personality and running it into the ground. Projectra just had her entire planet destroyed and she cried for what? 2 panels?

Does anybody else have an opinion on this?

I spent my first ten years as a comic book fan as a Merry Marvel Marcher. The only DC book I collected with any regularity was the LSH.

That has completely reversed in the last 5-6 years. I am not collecting ANY Marvel title on a monthly basis anymore. Why? The writing and continuity have become AWFUL. The X-Books are the best example of Marvel glomming onto something and beating it to death. HOW MANY FREAKING X-BOOKS WRITTEN BY MEDIOCRE TALENTS AND ILLUSTRATED BY CLONES DO WE NEED? New Avengers is another example. I was a huge fan of Busiek's Avengers, now this monstrosity comes along. I know, I know, it's entertaining, but the Avengers was always a spotlight for those who were NOT in their own books.

The central Marvel problem is a general comic book industry problem, which is:

The entire industry is cruising on fumes. Everyone is still playing in the sandbox created by Kirby, Lee, Fox, and assorted Silver Age creators. That sandbox was altered a bit by Moore, Byrne, Miller, et al in the Eighties, but remained essentially the same sandbox. Other than Gaiman's Sandman, what in comics in the last twenty years hasn't been a reimagining, reconstruction, deconstruction, retcon, or some other form of working in exactly the same freaking sandbox?

I honestly think that DC has done a much better job of showing their history and characters respect as they monkey around in their corner of the sandbox. JSA springs to mind, Starman, I think there's a whole lot of interesting characterization in Nightwing, Birds of Prey, Hawkman, etc.

The lack of characterization in Legion has been an issue for me, but we've been plot-driven for the entire series so far. I think Waid could fix that easily by giving us a couple of "Spotlight On..." type issues.

Signed:
Reformed Marvel Zombie

Oh, yeah. The reason I got on this particular soapbox right now is because I just read the Avengers: Disassembled and House of M TPBs. I thought they were awesome reads.


Didn't Waid say he was going to make this Legion character-driven and not plot-driven?

I have to disagree with ya Jim. I think Marvel lacks character depth, it really seems to be a home for artists, with writing only recently coming to be seen as important.

Iron Man and Captain America have been rebooted how many times in the last decade? Wolverine's latest series has had how many creative teams in it's sort lifetime? Joe Q. has said he believes shaking up creative teams allows for fresh stories. But it also prevents character growth. Writers have different takes, and stay so briefly, they rarely get any development done.

Devin Grayson may not have been liked, but she held to her Nightwing for her entire run. Geoff Johns has really fleshed out the JSA.

Barring his work on the Flash's rogues, or the excellent Villain's United, the villain's of DCU are rather pale. They seem more a needed plot point to demonstrate the character of our heroes.
But for the most part, I have to say DC has more fleshy characters than Marvel.

I think what Jim is saying in the original post is mostly true for every era since marvel launched. Although there are exceptions (Image@Marvel the most eggregious). AFB is right when he says recently some DC characters have achieved complexity rivalling Marvels. For me, I think that Catwoman and Guy Gardner when written properly a really great character studies.

Marvel lost some of my dollars because of intentionally lax editing and loss of consistency. And yeah Marvel has been very art driven since Image@Marvel but Ultimate Marvel and Bendis' group have reversed this over the core MU titles.

I think a lot of us characterize Marvel and DC in this way because we're longtime comic fans and we remember that used to be the case. When Marvel came along they went for pathos with characters having a more human type of hook (FF being a family, X-men highlighting racial issues, etc.) Contrasted to the iconic DC heroes that were around for years (Superman, Batman, WW) they seemed fresh and more character driven.

But the last 30 years or so, the status quo has changed a bit. DC titles like LSH and Wolfman's Titans dealt with relationships (good and bad) while Marvel's characters became more iconic and mired in continuity (Spider-Man) and as such have become harder to write (Clone saga, anyone). I think that's the biggest reason for the Ultimate lines success. They are starting fresh without 30 years of retcons getting in their way.

I think the waters are too muddied now to make that original distinction. For me, I would say that Nightwing (starting as Robin in TNTT) is just as complex as Spider-Man when it comes to everyday problems.

Jamie