Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Batman, Detective Comics and All-Star Batman

I am a Batman fan, but I somehow knew to stay away from this one until the verdict came in.

Um, I meant Smith shouldn't be banned from comics. Just Batman.

OK, so the November solicits are out and there are a massive <span style="font-size: 18px;">19</span> Bat-family titles on sale that month!

I may be loving all things Bruce Wayne right now but methinks DC might be pushing the limits as to how many Bat-books the market can support. I predict a big implosion about a year to two down the track.

One that will probably be one of the first to go is Streets of Gotham, which brings me to the point of this post - is anyone here reading it?

I recently read all of Dini's run on Detective (of which SoG is a kind of sequel I think) and I really enjoyed it. A lot of clever and fun done-in-one tales that used a good selection of the usual suspect villains along with a bunch of little-seen old ones (the Terrible Trio, Tweedledum & Tweedledee) and a few interesting new ones too.

And the art in the last half by Nguyen was amazing too.

So I was wondering if SoG is as good as Detective was and whether I should hunt down some back-issues of it. Anyone here reading it?

I picked up the first 3 or 4 issues of SoG, then dropped it. It wasn't anything horrid but just didn't grab my interest. Wasn't crazy about the focus on a new Black Mask, and the usage of Mr. Zsasz and Firefly wasn't exactly doing it for me.

I never picked up Dini's 'Tec issues, but it seems that he dropped the done-in-one style that had made that run successful. I'd heard good buzz about that, but saw no evidence in SoG.

I was also looking forward to the Kate Spencer Manhunter backup. That let me down, too. Uprooting the character to Gotham felt forced and robbed Kate of a lot of what made her book work.

For the record, I wasn't impressed by Gotham City Sirens either when I tried it out for the same number of issues.

For my money, the consistently best Bat-book (other than the great Batwoman run) has been Batgirl. It's nothing groundbreaking, but they simply know how to produce an entertaining comic book with interesting characters. That's harder to find these days than you'd think!

I am. It's been OK. Not fantastic, but good enough to keep. I will probably hang onto it for the near future because of the upcoming Ragman backup.

I'm going to reassess all the Bat-titles once Bruce returns. The only ones I know I'll get now are Batman & Robin (Tomasi returns to Dick Grayson) and Batman, Inc. (because it's Morrison). Everything else gets looked over once they hit the stands.

I never gave it a chance to be honest. I enjoyed Dini's Detective arc but felt by the end he'd kind of strayed from his formula and Streets didn't seem appealing.

Truthfully, and this isn't exactly the best reason not to buy something, I was feeling a little overwhelmed by the sheer amount of Bat-books in the sense that "DC is trying to screw me over". It's the same feeling I get with all the X-Men books by Marvel (even Dynamite is doing it with Green Hornet). Part of me can't allow myself to get them all unless I really feel I'm part of something special, which this current era of Batman doesn't feel like. So I only decided to collect Batman & Robin, Detective and Batman, putting my foot down on all the rest. I do plan on getting Dark Knight and Batman, Inc. though.

Thanks everyone. Maybe I'll see if I can flip through a few issues at the store before buying them.

I know what you mean about having to put your foot down on buying certain Bat-titles CK. Does anyone out there buy all of them? That must cost a fortune. I am at the moment only buying Batman & Robin and The Return of Bruce Wayne (and Batman while Grant Morrison guests on it) but come November the only definite on my pull-list will be Batman Inc. (though I am not a fan of the new costume).

The others are all maybes, with Batman & Robin, Knight & Squire and the Batman/Catwoman: Follow the Money one shot being the most likely to make it into my bag. Batwoman and The Dark Knight will undoubtedly look pretty but the unproven writing talents mean I'll be waiting for reviews first there.

One of the things Grant said at the SDCC panel was that he liked having a variety of Bat-Books you can pick and choose from, disparaging the days when you had to "Buy them all". So I don't think your meant to have to get "Everything" (though DC would like you to, I'm sure), but at the same time, the teams are working to ensure co-ordination and communication.

^ I agree. I certainly don't feel I'm missing out on anything by just getting the few that I do. It is good that there seems to be a Bat-title for everyone out there - almost literally everyone come November.

It seems obvious that Dick Grayson is staying on in the role for a while too so I wonder how that will shake out - having two different Batmen as the leads in their respective books?

For the longest time I collected them all. When Robin, Nightwing and Birds of Prey were all cancelled, I decided that it was time I gave the Bat-Books the same treatment I give the X-books. The only titles I feel any really loyalty to are Detective and Batman, and only because our collection (my father's and mine) extends back into the 1950's.

For what its worth (not much I wager), I decided that as long as Tim Drake is 'Red Robin', I will not buy his book; if he is 'Robin', I will. If Dick is 'Nightwing', I will certainly try out his title; if he remains Batman, then there is a good chance I may not.

James Robinson has also maintained that Dick Grayson - in whatever ID - will stay in his Justice League. So unless editorial thinks otherwise, Dick will be Batman there as well.

Oh, you're special, all right... :rolleyes:

Streets of Gotham was suppose to be more of a POV book from the average citizen of Gotham on the adventures of Batman. it didn't last long, and it's more a general vigilatnes of gotham style book. In the year or so since it's launch, at least 3 issues have been written by someone else. There have been some good bits - the opening arc with Firefly, the Huntress/Man-bat story. It's not a bad book, but not as tied to the Bruce Wayne drama as BATMAN and B&R. If you like the idea of an urban vigilante, but don't want to mess around in Bruce's psyche, than this is the book for you. <strike>Tho' I do think Dini's Hush story will close out the series.</strike>

As for the flood of Bat books, even Bruce can't support more than 2 titles on his own. All these mini series should be folded into the main books, help keep them fresh. These one shots- make an 80 page giant out of them. DC's getting over $30 a month on the monthlies I buy, no way I'm wasting money on one shots designed to test a characters Q rating.

I am definately going to check out Detective when Snyder and Jock start on the title. Outside of that...I don't read any Batman stuff.

Well according to the cover images used for the November solicits:

Dick will be wearing the yellow oval-less Batsuit, paired with Damian, for B&R. And featured in BATMAN.

Both BATMAN, INC & B:TDK feature Bruce and the yellow oval.

'TEC doesn't seem to specify one or the other.

I think I may discontine Batman & Robin after Morrison leaves. In fact I may not buy any core Batman titles off the stands, not even Batman, Inc., though it will be the most tempting. The $3.99 price points on many of them and the uncertainty about the creative teams are the main factors. Most likely, I'll trade-wait on them and buy those in that form if the reviews are good.

I will, however, continue buying Batgirl monthly and Batwoman when it debuts,

Funny how the interim Batman storyarc with Morrison and Tony Daniel--the "Missing Storyline"--is a 2-parter in which the two issues give me completely separate feelings.

In the first issue, in which is more based on the ramifications of Batman: RIP, was something I was highly interested in and loved.

The second issue, in which if more heavily focused on the events of Final Crisis, I found myself a bit uninterested and bored. I'm still so blase about that story that I can't really muster much interest, even though Batman's story there is so tied into Bruce's current journey.

Now I had the opposite reaction. I thought #701 was enjoyable enough but really a waste of an issue as it didn't show anything that wasn't either inferred or explicitly stated before. I didn't find it all that necessary.

But #702 blew my socks off. I really informs the whole narrative of RIP as well as RoBW, and indeed probably the whole Morrison run. It all starts to click: The Hyper-Fauna, the Hole in Things, Thomas Wayne, time changing around him. It's like it stepped back and revealed a larger tapestry and lets you see where all the threads are running to. It's got me really excited for the conclusion of RoBW (which I was only lukewarm to before) and the next few issues of B&R.

I assume that Batman Inc. is going to be about Bruce building a global army to combat Hurt and the Black Glove, with some kind of crazy end game. If so, count me in for the ride.

Detective Comics
I was just praising David Hine in the Spirit thread, and I’ve been a huge fan of the Bulletproof Coffin since it’s debut, and now I have to offer up even more praise to the masterful writer for his latest story in Detective. One again, he seems to be providing the very best Dick-as-Batman stories since the status quo was changed, and this latest story, in which Batman has to deal with “The Imposter Wars” is a genius idea that I’m shocked no one has thought of before. Hine crafts an excellent Batman story that continues to move at a rapid fire pace as an excellent premise is executed. He also had Dick make a minor mistake in the beginning—not taking the threat seriously—that causes Dick to regret it later, which is a subtle example of writing Dick as Batman, differentiating him from Bruce.

Scott McDaniel, who has no doubt by now proved himself to be one of the great Batman artists of the modern era (and Nightwing, Robin and other Bat-related characters), does a great job reminding me why I love his Gotham City artwork.

The Return of Bruce Wayne
I am still loving this every step of the way, and Morrison is just knocking it out of the park more and more with each issue. I love, love, love, the idea of Bruce handing his descendents the classic pearls that Martha Wayne had when she was murdered (little bit of Batman trivia: it was Frank Miller who added that bit to the mythos in Year One).

Does anyone know of any really good annotations websites for Morrison’s Batman, specifically the Return of Bruce Wayne and RIP? I’d love to see what clues and bits I’ve missed over time, especially the ones I may forget when it takes me 2 months to read the next installment.

Well there are these little-known facts...

Damien Wayne is a Golden-Age character -

http://www.comics.org/issue/11713/cover/4/?style=default

Grant Morrison is just rehashing these old stories -

http://www.comics.org/issue/14655/cover/4/?style=default

http://www.comics.org/issue/15576/cover/4/?style=default

This is the direction Morrison is taking the book post-The Return of Bruce Wayne -

http://www.comics.org/issue/16904/cover/4/?style=default

And Ace is just so super-cool -

http://www.comics.org/issue/12628/cover/4/?style=default

Some quick Batman reviews here -

Return of Bruce Wayne #5 - I don't think I can say enough about how great this series has been. I know some posters on other sites really seem to be hating this story (and Morrison's whole run on the book) and I just find that unfathomable.

The level of creativity and excitement and mystery and surprises that this book/run has had is just on another level IMO. Though there have been lots of great stories and storylines in Batman's loooooooonnng history, this certainly has to rank up there as the most consistently entertaining and impressive of them all. Right from his very first issue - Morrison has been telling one long mystery-story here and that even now, 40 or 50 or whatever chapters later, I *still* don't really know what's exactly going on and have no idea how everything's all going to shake out, and am LOVING the fact that I don't know that info, is testament to just how successful Morrison has been at telling a gripping and suspenseful story here IMO. So, so good!

Batman Confidential - speaking of good... it takes a LOT to get me to pick up a random issue of a title I don't currently buy (mainly since it means the completist in me now has to go and buy all 48 of the issues before this one!) but all the good word of mouth I heard about this issue had me curious as to whether it was good as they said it was. And it was! This writer, James Patrick, is one to watch. Anyone who can tell a very simple tale about Batman doing something we've all seen him do a thousand times before - solve a murder and save a little girl in a night - and yet keep you on the edge of your seat throughout while being intellectually entertained by the minutiae of Batman's investigation, is a talent with a future. VERY solid done-in-one.

Knight and Squire - pretty good. As an English Passport-holder who lived there for nearly a decade I chuckled at the *many* English in-jokes by way of the heroes and villains' names and costumes and the slang they used (and totally laughed out loud at the Beatles joke) so that was all fun. The art was OK too (not great, not terrible) though I think the artist really let down the script in a certain important event toward the middle of the book. Took me a long time to work out what was going on there. Surprisingly, Knight and Squire themselves didn't seem to do much this issue so I hope to see more from them in the coming months.

All I can say about Return of Bruce Wayne #5 was so awesome that as soon as #6 comes out, I may just have to reread Grant's entire Batman run, highlighting the Club of Heroes arc, RIP, Final Crisis and Batman & Robin just to take in the awesomeness of Grant's tapestry all at once.

I just started reading B & R with issue #13 so I'm scratching my head with a couple of things in that title as well as Return of Bruce Wayne... I just reread Final Crisis and picked up Batman & Son... curious about Dr. Hurt and the "return" of Thomas Wayne... Morrison's work bears several rereads, making it seem so much heartier than some of the other books I've been sampling (and dropping), e.g., Green Arrow...

^ I think reading Morrison's latest Batman stories would be impossible to completely enjoy without having read pretty much his entire run leading up to them. As I said in one of my earlier posts - he has been writing one continuous storyline right from his very first issue, so it wasn't really The Return of Bruce Wayne #5 that came out last week - it was Morrison's Epic Batman Storyline #42 (or whatever). All of these later issues are informed by the clues and characters and events from the previous ones.

If you're going to try to get into his Batman now Shark Lad I would totally recommend seeking out back-issues or Trades in order to better grasp how excellent (and multi-layered) this story has been.