Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities JLA/Avengers

As stolen from DC Message Board and someone made a nice comment on JLA/Avengers #1...but let me put the spoilers first....
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okay enough - from DC Message Board:

I just finished the first installment, and I think everyone will be thrilled and satisfied with the effort! Kudos to the whole team, especially Busiek. Kurt managed a range of elements from both universes in a balanced fashion. We've got Superman representing a viewpoint on the Marvel U shared by the anti-Marvel extremists in fanboy land, and Captain America's reaction to the DCU reflecting those anti-DCers out there. Their respective behaviors get worse as the story progresses, and their teammates have started to notice! Kinda like when some of us get carried away! The plot is full of refernces that fans of Busiek's Power Company will appreciate. The characterizations are bang on, from Thor's temper, Hawkeye's quips, Batman's attitude, Atom's curiosity,...
Kurt has established that mechanical technologies work similarily in both universes, whereas the 'Speed Force' does not. The powers of gods and goddesses seem unaffected, for example WW's lasso and Thor's hammer as [Supes finds out!]. I particularly liked Wanda's chaos magic defeating Starro, and Wonder Woman's superspeed not being affected in the Marvel U. [I wish she'd had time to say "Eat my dust" to Quicksilver!] The battle between Batman and the Punisher was AWESOME!! It got about as much space as it deserved!! [20 minutes!!] The diabolical Loophole was hilarious!! And only in the DCU would villians know that Supes was out of town! Looking forward to the inevitable triple-cross by Metron and/or GrandMaster, the Spectre's further role[?], the Wasp's re-entry [where'd she go?], the Atom's continued snooping, and next issue's battle royale!
As expected, and usual, Perez delivered the goods! [I'll admit to a few rough spots, but I'm such a Perez fan I won't point them out!] I can't wait to hear everyone's reactions!! Oh, I'm also getting a kick out of the chapter titles, "Journey into Mystery" indeed! And of course...gawd..."When Titans Clash"!

Here's a repost of my remarks on another thread.

I GOT it today!!!!

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The read was good, not great, but I have a lot of hope for the future. Kurt did once again what he does best and used some great little-used cosmic villains for his master manipulators. Grandmaster, Metron, and Krona (from way back in Crisis) are GREAT choices, and he writes them well. I also really enjoyed the JLA's shocked and saddened reactions to the Marvel universe and it's problems (mutant hysteria, mistrust of its heroes, etc.) and the Avengers' stunned reactions to a universe where the people actually idolize their heroes. Also VERY interesting was the conflict between Supes and Cap. Didn't see it coming, but I can see how Supes would see Cap as a failure and Cap would see Supes as a fascist (though I'm quite sure someone is manipulating them emotionally--knowing Kurt, probably Psycho-Pirate.)

The main negative is that I would like to see a bit better plot device than the search for the most powerful artifacts in the universes. Kind of tired, though it will give a lot of heroes a lot of chances to do things and fight a lot of villains (which I'm sure is what Kurt was going for.)

I wish this mini was 6 issues, not sure how they'll squeeze it in four.

In the next issue, even though I'm sure the fight between the JLA and Avengers won't go to the ultimate conclusion, the Avengers better pray for teamwork to get them through! They're pretty (though not overwhelmingly) outmatched.

Also, I LOVE George Perez. LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE Perez. His art was simply beautiful, and made the book flow smoothly and wonderfully even when the story was becoming a little thin. The only very slight negative is that I prefer Al Vey's inks over his own, but that's a MINOR quibble.

Thoughts about the next parts: if Krona is coming back from Crisis, could we see the Anti-Monitor and maybe even BARRY ALLEN??? And why isn't the Darkhold one of the 6 most mystically powerful artifacts in the Marvel U?

Even though it happened off-page, Batman kicking the Punisher's ass was PERFECT. LOVED that.

My grades: Story - B, Art - A+

I just read it again. On the second reading, it held up better for me. Especially since I realized that the search for the powerful artifacts is just a game orchestrated by the Grandmaster. That's SOOO Grandmasterish!

I think I have to upgrade the writing to B+ or even A-!

Oh, and upon further thought, I think the Emerald Eye is a much stronger artifact than the Medusa Mask. So there.

Darn it! I thought the new comics were out tomorrow because of the Labor Day holiday.

Oh well -- it didn't matter anyway, since I didn't leave work until after the comic book store was closed...

Don't you mean the GRANDmaster?

Oh, fine. You're my own private Threepio, Sanity. Edited in the original post.

I thought #1 got things off to a great start! At first I also thought the "find the twelve objects of power" plot contrivance was a bit used, but then I realized two things -- #1 reads like a combination of "Contest of Champions" and "Crisis on Infintie Earths" -- the first two big stories of this sort in each universe. A nice nod to the past from historian Busiek.

And two -- that Kurt may be using this often used contrivance as a red herring -- that giving us the hero vs. hero clash panders to the fanboy in us yes, but that there's more to the story we've yet to uncover. I actually would't be surprised if the rest of the series doesn't even have to do with gathering these twelve objects.

It made perfect sense that Busiek would give the best line of the book to Hawkeye (Hawkeye's his fav for those who don't know). It was fun of him to foreshadow it with Hawkeye's "There's something familiar about them" remark. I saw it coming, but it still made me laugh when he finally made the "second-rate Squadron Supreme" crack

And of course *GORGEOUS* work by Perez!! It warms my heart that he finally gets to do this book after the previous debacle -- he completely deserves it and it's a treat for the fans. Who says dreams don't come true?

I just got through doing my budget and with the final rent payment, utilities and new furniture to pay for I had to forego my books this week. Hopefully I'll be able to pick them up next week.

After a second read, I noticed a few details Perez threw in there:

Big Belly Burger: "Belly Belly Good" hehe ... and the mascot looks a tad familiar...

Nice shout outs to Toth, Sekowsky and Fox (not to mention the Kirby monster mash)

if there is one thing I am really happy is that I just pre-ordered on JLA/A #1....I just found out that five comics books store here in the Bay Area (South Bay, actually is more accurate) has SOLD OUT those books! wow. I am so glad.

The only setback is I have to wait til mid-September...grrrrr...grrr....CAn't wait!!!!! Damn!

I really liked the book. I felt like such a fan geek while reading it. Of course, I've been waiting 20 years for it to come out. My only complaint was that the beginning felt a little too much like the Crisis. That poor Crime Syndicate... they should stop appearing in mini-series... it NEVER goes well for them

In a way, I'm actually kinda glad that we had to wait this long for the crossover to take place. I've always been a Perez fan, but the stuff he does now completely blows away what he did 20 years ago. Add to that the newer printing and color quality and there is no doubt that this books looks better than it ever could have back then.

I have to say that honestly the whole thing left me wanting a bit more. I was never expecting this to be the greatest comic tale ever told (crossovers always have fairly contrived plots simply to get the teams or characters together in the first place) and while it wasn't bad exactly I just felt there was a little something missing.

There are some great parts to the whole thing; the reactions to the other universes from Cap and Superman, Hawkeye's Squadron Supreme comment (he he he) and the fact that Wally can't cross into the MU because the Speed Force doesn't exist there (such an obvious plot point but still inspired). Overall though I was left feeling a bit like so far the story has just been an excuse for a crossover and not a reason for it, if you see what I mean. That being said this is only
the first issue and more often than not first issues of miniseries are as much about set up as they are about anything else.

As for the art... well I must be one the few people reading comics who isn't completely enamoured of George Perez. Now I think he's
good, don't get me wrong, but I don't think he's *that* good. My main complaint is the fact that almost everyone looks the same and they only have three or four facial expressions. There's the look of shock (which everyone has on the cover. Swap the hair and the outfits and most of the characters are pretty much interchangable facially), the slightly amused look, the happy look and the angry one and not much else. I'm being picky but it's something about his work that has always bugged me. He draws those expressions pretty well but more often than not that's all he draws.

I did love his Plastic Man though.

Basically I think with the hype and everything this should be absolutely top notch on all fronts. It should have made me sit back and just say 'wow', which it didn't. The art is good but nothing we haven't seen before, the writing is clear and consistent but nothing spectacular and the whole thing came across to me feeling more like an excuse for a big marketing thing rather than a great story that was needing to be told. Like I say it was still enjoyable, I'm wanting to know what's going to happen next, but considering all the hype I was expecting just that little bit extra which I don't think was delivered in the end. But then again I'm not a big fan of Crisis
or Legends either...

Busiek evidently had that line from before the gig was even finalized. He uses it in a 1999 interview.

I know I haven't even picked up issue # 1 yet but I just saw the cover to # 4. If this is Perez' last bow in the super-hero comic realm as he has stated, My God!

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Guess I should add that I now have to put Superman on the list of other beings who have been able to pick up Mjolnir.

Picked up this book but other than back issues of Simonson's run on Thor and Coipel's issues of Avengers, I know NOTHING about Marvel. I suppose I am missing many of the
"in" jokes.

Who is Squadran Supreme? Are they as powerful as JLA members?

What't the problem with picking up the Hammer? I do remember something about only some could use it because on Simonson's run they created that alien Thor with the goofy name (escapes me now). Were only certain people strong enough to pick up the hammer or was it another personal quality that was required?

The Squadron Supreme group is supposed to be a Marvel rip-off of the JLA. I'm sending you over here for more answers. That thread deals with the latest comic version of the team.

As for the hammer, this is what is inscribed on it:

"Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of...Thor!"

In Marvel books only the following beings have been able to lift the hammer:

Eitri the Dwarf - he made the hammer
Enrakt the Enchanter - lived inside the hammer
Tiwaz - Thor's great-grandfather
Woden - Thor's son (I think this is also Dargo)
Wonder Woman - in her battle with Storm Diana picked up the hammer but did not use it
Odin - The All-Father
Captain America
Beta Ray Bill - The Alien Thor you spoke of
Eric Masterson - an architect who was Thor for awhile
Jake Olsen - an EMT who was also fused with Thor for a time

Thanks LL for the info on the Hammer and the link. This will make the story more enjoyable for me.

You're welcome BB. Glad I could be of assistance.

Interesting question. Considering that the Avengers will presumably have a harder time with the JLA than they did with the Squad, I'd guess no, but they were close from what I remember.

It'll be most interesting to see how JMS' Squadron might stack up against the JLA as well.

Bevis wrote:
I agree that Perez is weak on facial expressions. He does do great backgrounds though, and uses interesting angles.

Interesting cover to issue 2. Supes, even armed with Thor's hammer and Cap's shield, is taking a pounding from someone. I wonder who.

My first impression was that he took the pounding getting those items. Your premise makes more sense. By this issue, I suppose there is a common enemy. Could be Supes was chosen as the one to use the items to take on the bad guy.

Your theory makes just as much sense - Cap's shield looks like it was blasted, possibly with Thor's lightning.

Honestly, I doubt Thor's lightning could do that to Cap's shield (maybe if Thor put some Odin power behind it, maybe).

I'll take a guess and guess that battle somehow involves the dozen ultimate weapons that the heroes are hunting for.

Ummm, just taking a quick look at Supe's eyes. I don't think he's in complete control of himself. I'm thinking that Cap and Thor didn't give up those weapons willingly.