Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities The Official Infinite Crisis Spoiler Thread

my understanding is that psycho pirate wanted damage alive for some reason. "luthor needs you alive" maybe alex luthor?


i kinda like WW's new ruthlessness.

the wizard shazam was said to be dead. but i didnt see a body.

how could you forget the "ratcatcher"

That was the Ray, BTW.

Then explain Oprah.

Uncle Sam akways seemed more like a concept given form than an actual individual - he's easy to revive or update.

He's like the embodiment of the American idea of the Declaration of Independance...

my bad. definately was the ray. they look very similar amongst the carnage...i missed psycho pirate spelling it out for me by calling him "Ray".

i'm not up on damage but dosn't he have a force field? ie: why could reverse flash kick his butt?

random reactions:
-- I'm glad they threw in the direct tie to CoIE right away rather than draw it out.
-- Am I the only one who thinks Superman2's opinions were meant to be reflective of fandom's (or some of them) attitude to the current DCU?
-- In that scene where the four mystery characters are silhouetted, I think there's a mistake. The silhouette that looks like Superman says "And if we don't get involved... there will be no earth to worry about." But then the narrator says, "He's not right. He can't be." But the narrator is revealed to be Superman2. Was there a mistake with the word balloons? Was that Alex saying that end of the world stuff??
-- As a GL fan, I'm sorry to see Dr Polaris go more than any of the heroes that died.
-- Why is Wonder Woman getting all Wolverine on us? Killing Max Lord is one thing, but diving in for the kill on an unconscious Mongul? What's up with her?
-- Amazing art, btw. It really provides the epic scope this title needs.
-- Am I the only one who's reminded of The Agents from the Matrix the way the OMAC's "take over" their host body?

FYI -- Anyone interested in the fate of J'onn J'onnz should pick up the latest JLA (it takes place right before IC #1).

I have some issues here. I will pick up the Crisis books, but I have refused to fall into the trap of buying all these tie-in books. Can someone help me answer some basic questions?

1. Villains United. I get that the Villains are uniting, but why, under who, and why are they killing so many of the other villains?

2. OMAC. I understand Bats is somehow involved, and defense of humanity is involved, but why are they killing heroes?

3. Disagreements between Supes, Bats, and Wondy. Why? Wonder Woman killed somebody?

4. Can someone explain the mindwiping thing to me? Is there a retcon saying that the League has been doing this all along? Is this a source of the conflict between the heroes?

1. Lex Luthor is uniting the villains. Somehow, It appears to be pre-crisis Earth-1 Lex doing this. DCU Lex is around too, they are working to foil each other's plans using heroes and other villains as pawns. Pre-crisis Lex is planning something huge against the heroes.

2. Batman mistrusts the other Justice Leaguers because of number (4) he built OMAC to spy on and maintain protocols to check the power of metahumans. Max Lord stole it from him and has been reclaiming the Earth for normal humans from the self proclaimed gods.

3. Max Lord used his powers to take control of Superman who almost killed Batman in a psychotic delusion. Wonder Woman saw no alternative to save Supes. Batman is bitter than Supes did nothing all these years and both Bats and Supes are against killing.

4. The league has been wiping memories from villains since the silver age. However in Identity Crisis there was a retcon. Dr. Light came aboard the satellite raped Sue Dibny and threatened everyone else's family. Zatanna went beyond just taking memories from Dr. Light and lobotomized him at Hawkman's suggestion.

Batman arrived on the scene late and tried to stop the League from doing this, so they wiped his memory of the incident too, to save the league from self-destructing. Superman wasn't there but he knew what they did to Bruce and did nothing.

So many things running through this issue. In my mind:

1. Villains United

It seems that the villains have actually started to take the heroes down actively as a collective, with the Freedom Fighters being first in line. Deathstroke's such a bad-@$$!

2. Trinity Breaks

It appears the mushy side of this 3-way relationship has gone sour. Thing is, I can believe Batman when he says that there are other options besides killing. This comes from a guy who's seen a partner killed, an "associate" crippled, and other similar tragedies. Best line has got to be Batman's address to Superman: "--the last time you really inspired anyone--was when you were dead." Wonder Woman, IMO, did the right thing.

3. The Crisis Holdovers

Back in the day of CoIE#12, I thought Alex Luthor brought E2/Superman + Lois & EP/Superboy to the great beyond...well, it appears that they haven't really gone that far. Apart from these 4, in "Return of Donna Troy" we're led to believe that Troia used to be Harbinger and that now she's aware of the multiverse's existence. Over at JSA Classified, it appears that Power Girl is another, as well as Psycho Pirate. I wonder where all this is leading up to...

30 frikkin' days...such a looooong wait for InC#2!!!!!!!

I'm with Wonder Woman too.

The blood of all the innocents Batman's foes have murdered is permanently tatooed on his hands, IMO. Especially irreedmable scum like The Joker.

WOW !!!

i the first issue !!!

amazing artwork by Phil and Geoff's story so far is great, the infighting of the BIG THREE was really good [ and i'd go as far as saying i'm of DIANA's opinion, in regards to what needs to be done with certain villians ]

i have a few questions though .....

on the page before the BIG reveal, when [ ALEX i presume is whispering in the ear of SUPERMAN E2, who is the she he is refering to !!?? it can't be his LOIS, as she's with them ??

and as we're seen a 2nd LEX in "VILLAINS UNITED" !!?? when do you guys think he first appeared ??

every time weve seen LEX in his BATTLESUIT has this been the other one ??? is he the one that is following SUPERGIRL ??

can't wait for issue 2 .....

Matthew.

The last page blew me away ...

The people on it weren't a surprise; I'd read the spoilers.

But the "THIS looks like a job for Superman." And the pose!

I was 16 when COIE came out. I felt like 16 again today.

THIS is a Superman I can love. And who I'd follow into battle.

Very exciting beginning- with a suitably surprising last page. Who else is digging out their old issues of CRISIS?

I ain't counting anybody dead till it's confirmed on-panel. It looks bad for Phantom Lady, Human Bomb and Black Condor especially- but who knows? Maybe that site was near one of Ra's al Ghul's water of youth fountain thingies.

Uncle Sam will be back. He's gotta be. Though he might be unrecognizeable when we first see him. (Even as her?) The Ray's gonna be featured (a substitute for Firestorm?), so he's got more torture to endure and for us to look forward to. Damage- tossed off to the side. I'll bet he regains consciousness and returns just in time to pull Uncle Sam from the water-- and to check on the other Fighters.

I wonder what significance there is that this team- the Freedom Fighters- are the first to 'fall'... hmmm?

The spreads featuring Bat-spectre, Nightwing and the Omacs (who should've formed into a bat-symbol!!! Ha!), and the war in space were beautiful. Phil Jimenez is doing some stellar work, here. Wonder what he'll be doing after the 7 issues are done? I look forward to that. Bet it won't feature hordes of characters, though.

Matthew, based on VU #6, it looks like the regular DCU Lex is the one in the battlesuit. E1 Lex has only shown, so far as we know, in VU.

Could be Power Girl, who was originally the cousin (and only living relative) of the Earth-2 Superman (and may still be, depending on what happens in JSA: Classified 4).

I'm going to guess the "she" is Power Girl. She'll be the E2 Supergirl all grown up.

So how is mind wiping going to fit into all this? It's too big a plot point for them not to make use of it at some point. Maybe the entire DCU gets mind wiped, and one year later starts everyoen all over again w/o having to reboot.

I think you're totally spot on Drake, and that's what they're doing. Batman's speech to Superman too (which was great IMO).

I just reread #1-5, and am rereading the rest now. I just had to.

Loved the first issue and really enjoyed the surprise ending, even though I spoiled myself recently.

Sad to see some of the deaths, but I expected there would be some I didn't like. Hope the Ray survives!

I also thought Uncle Sam fought pretty valiantly against the powerhouse group he was fighting: Deathstroke, Zoom, Cheetah, Black Adam, Sinestro, etc. After his appearances in the Spectre series of the 90's, he's potentially as powerful as Superman and the Spectre, so we'll prob see more of him.

I think DC has done a good job of making some of these villains truly scary and chilling: I know Psycho Pirate worries me, and Sinestro, Zoom, and others are scary. Dr. Light, of course, is the scariest. Still waiting for Hawkman to behead him.

Art was simply amazing.

Eagerly awaiting the Anti-Monitor to show up in the rift in space now

Jorg, just saw this and I'm relieved and thrilled. I'm a big Ray fan and hope stuff is in store for him.

Since its not the original Phantom Lady, I assume they could always just make another, especially given how famous that costume is.

Oh, and I should have mentioned above, I cannot wait until the big three problems are finally resolved by the end of this. With Geoff writing, those should be some solid scenes.

I enjoyed this issue as well. Geoff rocks.
I too noticed the red skies and wondered why mention has not been made. I guess as the series moves along we will have more deaths. I guess its a way to leave the name as new characters are gonna be introduced.

Wasn't Dr. Polaris revealed to be Damage's uncle or something? Maybe in the Titans' series before the current one?

Sorry if someone else has brought this up already...

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he was in Damage's own series. Actually, I think its more complicated than that, but hell if I can remember...

He's also the Atom's kin or somesuch. But it was some kind of genetic engineering deal, IIRC. I'm actually surprised he wasn't brought into the JSA since he's a "legacy hero".

GA Atom was his genetic father, wasn't he? With other JSA members' DNA sequenced in, or something?

Grant Emerson-- Dr. Polaris is/was Neil(?) Emerson, I think. So, I believe he was Damage's nonbiological father's brother.

Was it his nonbio father who abused Grant- or was it Dr. Polaris?

Damage's parents were Al Pratt aka Atom I and his wife Mary Pratt.

Damage's foster parents (John and Katherine Emerson) were the brother and sister-in-law of Dr. Neal Emerson aka Doctor Polaris. So, they're not related on the genetic level, only by circumstance.

Damage was experimented on by Vandal Savage. He took genetic material from of a number of people. The list I found is: Jay Garrick, Alan Scott, Ted Grant, Carter Hall, Shiera Hall, Rex Tyler, Dinah Lance, Charles McNider, Ted Knight, Johnny Chambers, Libby Lawrence, Barry Allen, Arthur Curry, Dinah Laurel Lance, Hal Jordan, Ray Palmer and J'onn J'onzz. So he's kind of related to all of them in a way.

Oh, and, yes, Grant's adoptive father did abuse him.