Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Visionaries of Tomorrow Shooter off Legion?

What I don't get is, what stories are you going to tell about the Johns Legion? They're all grown up! An occasional "Adult Legion" story with Superman is great, and I'm all for it, but the point of the Legion is that they are kids!

maybe they help Starman in his quest for the perfect sloppy joe.

What a poetic way to say the truth

I really like what Shooters doing, even though it seems he's doing it too late... Waids balloon just never took off...

Even though I would really prefer the Legion of old to fully return (now that we have been given a juicy taste), I would be a little sad to see this finally evolving third version to disappear again.

But in the end, the question is why it had to be done at all in the beginning - the reboot of the reboot, will it be a tiny sidenote in Legion history ten years from now?

I can really understand Shooter is p***ed of...

If this is true, the saddest thing about it is how unsurprising it is. It's so typical of DC's treatment of the Legion.

If anyone alive today deserved the chance to take the Legion and rebuild it from scratch in any way he wanted, it's Jim Shooter. If his return to the Legion turns out to be a mere lame duck run on a doomed threeboot continuity, only to be replaced by Johns's "New Earth" retconned pseudo-original Legion, I think every fan of the genuine original Legion should be pissed off as well.

As a fan of the 'original Legion,' I don't care for the Action Legion at all. I bought the comics, and was amused to see that Imra had cut off all of her hair and that Brainy had turned into an overly emotional moron, but it's not the Legion I grew up with, not by a long shot.

The Waid Legion wasn't either, but, thanks to Shooter, it's finally getting that feel again.

Just in the nick of too late, apparently.

that would actually please me a great deal. perhaps something happened when i used my mind powers on dan didio at ECCC over the weekend. if this happens, i take full credit for this, is what i'm saying. but wasn't his term supposed to not be infinite anyways? wasn't it ahhh.. 16 issues or something anyways? do they mean "after his 16 issues" or "dropped right now"?

for people concerned about this legion dying forever, from what i understood from the newsarama interviews geoff johns did on legion of threeworlds, it would end with the legion being a compression of all three into one to form a new one.

in other words, we might get querl from one legion, cos* from another, saturn girl from the third. at least that how i understood what he was saying!

*btw, another thing that makes me cry about shooter's writing is his dropping of things from the previous storyline. like.. i dunno, finding cosmic boy.

as long as manapul's still on it i'm happy!

but i don't think it's true, as much as i wish it was.

Well if this rumor is true and it does mean the end of the 3Boot book, and they keep it running until the Legion of 3 Worlds mini is done, then that would put the last issue at about issue 50. If that is the case I do hope that Shooter sticks around to finish the book out.

When I made the post, I had convinced myself I was being irreverent, but in the light of day I can see it was the wrong thing to say at the wrong time, and that I was being petty because the Shvaughn fake-out of the most recent issue really pissed me off. Also because I think Shooter Mk. 3 got off to a great start, but for the last few issue, nothing's been engaging me other than the Projectra scenes. And also, one of the side-trips in the Lardy's Roundtable thread reminded me how much I hate the Cosmic Boy-hits-Light Lass scene from Shooter Mk. 2.

I would never deny Shooter the kudos he deserves for his host of important contributions to the Legion mythos during the Adventure Era. Jerry already mentioned Emerald Empress; there's also the rest of the Fatal Five, Shadow Lass, Projectra, Mordru, the Khunds, etc. At the same time, I think that Mort Weisinger deserves as much credit for that as Shooter does, and that, like many prodigies, Shooter never equalled his earliest work (partly because, for most of his adult career, he's had no one to answer to but himself, which only underlines the importance of Weisinger's guidance. Should Shooter's current editor, Mike Marts, shoulder some of the blame for Shooter Mk. 3 being unsatisfying? I sure think so.)

In short, I kicked Shooter while he was down instead of finding a better way to express myself. I hope this post goes a way towards correcting that.

Well I hope it's not true as fjm said.

Shooter is the only guy that's come close to writing an ejoyable Post Crisis Legion IMO...he's doing it.


I don't really understand why Shooter would be offended at DC brining the Pre Crisis Version...because Shooter is a huge part of the reason that version is so popular. I think Shooter understands the Legion so I don't see him gtting offended about this.


Here's the deal...the Lightning Saga started before Shooter was even on the book...it's not like they switched in mid stream...the original Legion was back before Shooter was.


As I mentioned elsehwere...a similar line of thinking to what Johns is doing was first done by Shooter back in SLOSH #223.


I don't see this as DC changing strategy on Shooter...he knew the LS Legion had appeared, he knew their anniversiary was coming...


All that said...I do want to know why he missed that con and was extremely disappointed he didn't make the con.


I hope Shooter is back with the Legion for a while...I don't care which version it is. His version is always good IMO.

Shooter's not creatively overprotective...if he was he'd have sued DC for all the characters he created for them as a minor...like the Parasite and Mordru.

Shooter has always had a corporate mentality and been success driven over creativity driven...this does not mean he's not a creative writer, he's an extremely creative writer when he focuses on that, but at the same time I don't really see him being offended at DC being interested in a version that sells...

I think that is exactly the type of decision that Shooter would understand in fact. He's been on that side of the ball...

Shooter tends to get defensive over corporate control...not creative control...I don't see this as being something he wouldn't get...I hope it isn't.

And I personally think Didio and Johns are probably both Shooter fans...Didio is definitely a fan of that Silver Age era and Johns was probably into Marvel when Shooter was EIC.


Anyway...I've also read Shooter's comments on the Legion...I think he's one of us that feels Superboy is important to the Legion, based on what I have read from him.


I just don't see DC wanting to publish the Action Legion as being something that

A. He wasn't aware of.
B. Would make him angry.


I hope it isn't...

I think you are mistaken. In no interview Johns has implied there will be one amalgam of Legions. What is clear from his interviews is that the 3 versions are from different worlds. So, I doubt very much that the fate of the LSH is not tied to Final Crisis big time, as Johns' last interview has pointed out very clearly. If one of each survives, we can always get a different one from one of the other 40-something worlds available. Why not LSH from Kingdom Come?
In fact, most people were in shock when Giffen mentioned the "hat trick" during his run. Editorial vetoed that then.

I also don't think Shooter has dropped Cos plot. He has mentioned in a couple of issues that Cos is indeed missing. And I am pretty sure his disappearance has got to do with Time Trapper and Final Crisis: L3W.

Oh, and Action Legion IS NOT THE ORIGINAL LEGION. That would be TMK's Legion.

No the Original Legion Died when John Byrne's Man of Steel came out,AND THE LAST PERSON TO WRITE THE ORIGINAL LEGION WAS PAUL LEVITZ.

Paul Levitz quote after reading the 4 or 5 years that had been done after his run--in a weekend,That would be TMK's Legion (I don't think I've had a more painful weekend that I didn't spend in a Hospital)

Well, if that is the case, you are wrong. Byrne's MOS happened when LSH v4 was already on issue 3. Technically, that makes v4 still the last version of Legion. And as any reader can notice, v4 had a retcon, but not a reboot.
As for your last sensence, I really couldn't understand it. Sorry.

gee, it would be really nice if LSH had an editor that cared enough to make a clarifying statement. if nothing else it might bring the book(s) some attention and sales.

Pre-Crisis Legion = Original Legion, When Kal-El was removed from the Legion it was no longer the ORIGINAL LEGION.

And Levitz was saying TMK's so called version of the Legion made him Sick.

So I am still right: up until LSH v4 3...
I've never seen such quote from Levitz. It seems in fact very far fetched from his gentle character. However, his opinions wouldn't change the fact that the 5-Year-Gap is still within the old chronology.

It does. Very nice post. We wouldn't be Legion World without some irrerevance and our strong opinions. You are right that Weisinger's role shouldn't be overlooked (and, unfortunately, often is). The Shvaughn cover switch upset me too.

Don't we have some threads on the Cosmic Boy slap somewhere?
I was a kid when it was published, and sadly, didn't bat an eye at it or realize how disturbing it was until years later. Do you think that Grell's artwork made it made it appear more graphic and brutal than Shooter imagined it? Not that that excuses it, but I've come to assign as much responsibilty to Grell for the insensetivity as Shooter.

ah, knowing how detailed dc's scripts are, i would say that this is shooter's responsibility. also, it's not like the writer doesn't see the pages before they're handed off to an inker, the writer ALWAYS looks at pages before they're done to make sure there's no confusion (i can tell you cute stories with translation problems with overseas/english-as-a-second-language artists). also, it goes by an editor as well.

so, having worked as an editor, i would really assign responsibility to the editor and the writer... but as an artist, i personally feel it's an artist's job to speak up when something is inappropriate. If the artist doesn't want to talk to the writer directly, they can talk to the editor and then there's more people to talk to if that doesn't work out. it's just like any job where there's something shady going on.

now... THAT said, sometimes i think even an INKER or a COLORIST is at fault for the presentation of a scene! particularly breast depiction seems to change somewhere between a penciller and the finished product.

anyways... i blame shooter and the editor because i dislike him and I'm 5.

since when? i think that during most of the "original legion" run, they were all grown-ups.
i think that the point of the legion is that they send a message of peace and tolerance.

i'd be sad too to see shooter end his run on the legion. but what i really want to see is an action comics legion ongoing, no matter who writes it!

As long as there is a recognizable Legion, I will likely read it.

My preference:

A Johnny DC Legion

A DCU Legion (Lightning Saga legion if some non-overly-insulting continuity can be constructed)

A Wildstorm Legion (preferably the Threeboot Legion -- Bedard/Calero vision, but more likely the Legion that's currently in Dreamwar)

oh -- and a cartoon and more Happy Meal toys . . . and a real flight ring and a puppy

I feel like I've been through this before--like three times!

I'm not surprised by anything DC does anymore other than being pleasantly surprised when I pick up quality work.

Unfortunately, Cobie, that quality work is getting scarce at the Big Two. Hype and promotion in the media don't make for good reading although it does make for good sales.

Hiya Ricardo, welcome to the board. Nice to see you again (it is you, isn't it? From way back on LSH List?)

My opinion about a possible Amagamation: I never thought much of Giffens Hat Trick idea. I believe it to be one of the few bad ideas of the TMK era, which I still love and was thrilled about again rereading it recently.

I believe that an Amagamation Legion would alienate all the Legion fans - Classic lovers, Reboot lovers, Threeboot lovers. TMK has vanished to an Elseworld long ago anyway (greatest Elseworld ever, isn't this something?)

So it would give Legion fans something everybody would probably hate for all different reasons. This can't be the way. If it actually IS the plan, I consider this the definite end of the Legion. The book would probably not survive this.

Until, of course, they would start a Fourboot in 2012 or so...

That's what I expect. Superboy-Prime will butcher 2/3rds of the Legions of Three Worlds and we'll get some bastard collage of unrelated characters who've never even heard of each other.

So we'll get the thrill of watching 40 or so Legionnaires be decapitated, punched through or cut in half by 'heat vision,' every single one of them *someone's* favorite character (or interpretation of a character) and only people who pretty much loathe the Legion and everything it's ever stood for will enjoy watching a version of *Superboy* kill off his childhood friends, who, in some distant fantasy continuity, helped him discover what it meant to be a hero.

[sarc] Woo. I can hardly wait. [/sarc]

Hope for the best, plan for the worst, realize it's somewhere in the middle.