Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! What if this all fails?

Okay, DC have cancelled the old Legion, and have thrown their money and support behind this new one.

There's a LOT of publicity doing the rounds. Everyone's been talking it up. Extra large issues. The preview in the Special.

But what if it doesn't live up to the hype? Look at the Thunderbolts?

I love Legion, but I don't know if it can ever be a really huge book (without something like a cartoon to bolster sales), but the promotion that's going with it is all out of proportion.

What if it's shit? It could kill the Legion forever...

With Waid on board there's the potential for it to be really great. The problem I have with Waid though is if he sticks on a book too long, you begin to see reappearing themes on a regular basis. I mean, how many times did we see, this arc, Flash dies... or Is it Wally, or not... Or who will be the new Flash... or Flash enters the speed force, will he ever return.

If he is on the book for longer than 2 years I see it fading. His shorter stories have greater impact. I mean Kingdom Come was AMAZING...

If it's crappy, maybe a Jeff John's will find a way to bring back the original Legion... or the Legion that disappeared into nothingness. I think Jeff could write just about anything.

And hey, what if it's huge, maybe it will spawn a cartoon & new figures. You just never know.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

If the Legion is anything, it's durable - thanks mostly to its fans (pats self on back). If this doesn't work out look for a quadboot in 2010 or thereabouts.

Personally, I think this version will take the Legion to new heights!
LLL

Failure is always a possibility, but promoting a book can really make a huge difference. I think a lot of the reason behind the failure of good books out there is lack of promotion. This means that more people are going to be drawn in to at least the first few issues, and quite of few of them might stick around.

I feel like this version will work. I don't quite know why, but I have an excited feeling about it that I didn't have last reboot - or, really, at any time since the preboot Legion went away. So I'm sticking with my gut. And, for your information, I also enjoy New Thunderbolts.

Maybe part of why I'm so "Wha-hoo" lately for this new series is because I'm hoping so much that it won't fail. It does seem like a big risk to me. Some of it sounds really good, some it sounds.... not really good, and some of it does sound bad. But there's no way of knowing how it'll go as a whole until it comes out.

If this does fail... I can't imagine Legion being gone forever, but we might find ourselves Legion-less for a few years. And a new Legion series after this "alternate" Legion could be a continuation of the alternate or a return to a previous version of Legion. I imagine that's part of why this is more of an "alternate universe" than a full reboot... to give some room for a hasty retreat.

What if it fails? Honestly, I hadn't considered the notion. This relaunch "feels" like it's going to be a success to me.

But... if it isn't... well, we'd better thank our lucky space-stars that Paul Levitz is top dawg at DC, and we'd better prepare to get off out butts and pull a 1970s-style organized fan-revolution.

I think Waid/Kitson have combined some nice elements to make this work. The book is getting lots of publicity IMO. I hope it works.

I disagree with some of Waid's views on the legion but he's stated the star attraction here is the characters...their interaction, etc. Not the villain of the month. I think he nailed that right (just made a mistake with such an old school lineup).

IF this does fail...and being realistic I think it won't be next summers highest seller...if we are lucky it would be like JSA in the top 30 monthly comics. But a year into the series it might sell just slightly more than DnA's...it's a possibility.

If it does falter I think DC might take a year or two off from Legion...and then real big guns like Geoff Johns, Pacheco, Jim Lee, Loeb, Morrison may be called in personally.

Jorge

It makes sense that if this new book were to fail in the marketplace, they would take some time off from Legion. Possibly a long time, with just a guest shot here and there for legal reasons if nothing else.

I think this is going to be a good run. But you have to understand something. The Legion failing as a title is not like another title failing. The Legion will survive as always. Someone, somewhere, at some time will pick the book up again. It's been shown time and time again. The Legion will never remain in limbo forever. As mentioned, our numbers are low, but our demand for this book is sronger than any other.

I think Waid has so many characters to work with on this book, there should be no fear of "repeat stories". There are way too many stories to be told.

Hear, hear!
At least two of these guys (Morrison and Lee) are reported to be big Legion fans. In the event that this book doesn't fly (which it will), I think that DC will wait until one of these guys actually requests the book before bringing it back.

Just my theory.

What if there were no reboot and it failed?

Well I was thinking more of DnA comments back in the day, that if Legion Lost didn't do well, chances are there wouldn't have been a Legion book.

And they cancelled that book. (so yeah, get all those new fans for Foundations, then KILL THEM OFF).

I wonder if there's anything like that...here's a blank slate, we promise to back it and market it, and if this doesn't work nothing will...how about another Batman title?

Then I will have been proven right! You will all have to eat your words!

Reservations, you might not have been here but I voiced similar concerns to yours when the reboot was announced and this lot practically ran me out of town! I got *hate mail* for my opinions!! Now, I obviously don't hope that the Legion gets cancelled and doesn't appear again for 15 years. But if it did I'd say that this lot had it coming!

*sob* so mean...

There might be a chance that it won't last as long as Waid thinks it will and it seems that some people at DC thinks so as well because of the fact that Shikari, the girl with the tracking power, isn't trapped in hypertime like v4 Legion and that the Special story indicates that they still exist, as well as their timeline, though Waid probably thinks that's silly since he has already claimed that the new series will be #1.

Another thing is that I think the only change will be a cosmetic one even though this is suppose to be a new timeline. He says, like so many things, that it won't be the return of the Archie Legion, but he doesn't seem to know what that means when we say it, like being naive to how serious the threats will be that they'll be facing and how they won't really change the whole universe for the better, and seems too busy saying it'll be a breakthrough before we see it, as well as reasons where most doesn't make any sense. It's like he isn't giving his work a second look.

Personaly I thought the real reason that the other series was slowing down was because it was time to take the next step "up" and Waid isn't doing that. He's either making the Legion stand still or take a few steps back with his reboot which will probably damage the characters because of his consistency over continual thing which so far hasn't shown any consistency at all.

For fun I once posted here ideas on perhaps how to improve the Legion and I'm not saying it would have worked, since I'm not that arrogant and delusional, but at least I tried thinking about having them move forward, instead of trashing everything and making empty promises and statements as if I was some kind of "hero" to the readers which DC needs to take control of or else.

Legion idea

There's also some other things that Waid said which makes me believe that the series won't work which is

It's "his job" to reboot the Legion for every ten years which I see no character growth happening and that they'll stay third rate characters. As well as Waid acually doing that. Waid is obviously overestimating his position in comics and DC probably doesn't like it, but want to keep it quiet to keep their promise to Waid to give the book a try. V4 isn't really that old. They started out as 14/15 year olds and in comic time they been around for 2 or 3 years.

Saying that continual and history is baggage and a hassle for readers as if it's something that needs to be reviewed in every issue. It's a hassle because Waid and some other writers overdo it with the time traveling stories where the past is altered and believe saying it was because of hypertime will fill in the gap. Hypertime didn't work back then, and it will never work now. Hypertime was one of Waid's worst creations, since he's been using it for his consistency over continual saying and has been taking the consistency away from the other writers who are more focus on their writing then it seems Waid is with his. Waid could have perhaps have the same stories that he wanted to write without altering the past. Green Lantern: Rebirth is a success because the writer is thinking like a reader. He knows that the readers would know about Hal's past and new readers would probably like to be filled in, instead of saying it never happen which is probably why DC is having a hard time getting the new readers. They're the ones creating the hassle, instead of the history of the character.

DC, except for some exceptions, seem too afraid to move forward and keep on allowing some writers on giving us the same thing over and over and over again in a new look and think that we'll "think" that they're being original here.

All this reminds me of those really big promotions of the movie "Last Action Hero" which turned out to be a stinker. I wouldn't be surprised if all this turns out to be the same. The hype and fandom will probably give good sale rates for the first two or three issue, but once that dies out and people get a better understranding of the Legion, sales will probably go down since Waid won't be able to keep his unrealitic promises and the fact that he seems to think that DC heroes need to be perfect to be successful like in Birthright which wasn't really a classic to be remembered like he thought it was.

What makes you think that this was forced on the creative team, rather than Waid and Co. choosing this direction themselves?

What makes you think that this was forced on the creative team, rather than Waid and Co. choosing this direction themselves?

Just a hunch, but if I was DC and after reading the interviews, I would be scared that the new series was going to end up another Birthright which didn't do as well as they wanted it to when it came to sales and wouldn't survive as a unlimited series because Waid was going overboard with the glory.

Waid sounded like he was making stuff up without bothering to rehearse to make it sound like it made sense and didn't have a clue on the problems like the fact that the real reason that continuel is such a hassle because Waid and a few other writers seem to think that the consistency over continuel thing is helping, but is really adding to the damage.

I hope the Crisis that may come this spring or summer will just replace Hypertime with something that gives freedom to all writers and not do another major reboot that may just make things worse, because Waid has just been abusing it and adding to the hassle even if the stories were good, but the problem is that it's like sacrificing alot of possible good stories for one that could still exist. like that Flash story he once did where Superman told the alternate timeline Flash that him being here was weakening the barrier which would cause changes which made the DC universe seem more fragile and limited, then it became to making no sense when the alternate Flash was able to take his new girlfriend to his reality which should have the same results. Even without the threat of hypertime, the story would still be just as good. Waid seems to have a problem with noticing simple detail.

Also, Waid says that new readers think that there's too much history, but I'm betting they're too busy asking "What do you mean this never happend? How can it not happen when this somewhat recent comic says it did?" this is probably why they're having problems getting new readers and keeping the old ones because they too focused on pleasing the popular writers, when they should focus the readers who are supporting the company with their purchases of their books. If the writers don't want to do it they're way, even if it's a very small and unnoticable compromise, then they should hire someone else. Waid, Byrne, and other familiar names are not that rare. There are other writers out there that are just as good or better.

I am a fan of Waid's work, but I don't worship the guy. If he's doing something that sounds like it not going to work or is acting very arrogant and dishonest, then I'll say it with humble honesty.

Personally, I think after the hype and curiousity are gone and readers now know about the new Legion, sales will perhaps start to drop rapidly, because Waid seems more focused on how he thinks people will praise it, then making sure it will simply work.

I see a possible disaster happening and Shikari may end up being the life-line to save the Legion from a decade or two long vaction in limbo, because even though he said this isn't the return of the Archie Legion with a new image, his seemly lack of knowing what that name means says otherwise, as well as the previews which tells me it will probably turn out to have no room for growth and longivity when we get a better idea on what it's really about. DC may have been excited at first, which Waid they were, but some things from the Special seems to indicate that may have changed in a way since v4's so called ending seems to have a "to be continued" feeling like "Will Shikari save her friends who are hopelessly lost in hypertime?"

DC may have gotten them to make some quick modifications to the book and Waid probably doesn't want us to know about it in fear that it would hurt the new series.

So far, It only looks like it going to be a hit thru all that hype, and so far we been hearing mostly from Waid who has made alot of unrealitic promises and claims. DC doesn't seem to want to be too involved in promoting the book thru interviews, but is willing to get the book published to give it a fair chance.

Geoff Johns co-wrote the Titans/Legion special. Geoff Johns is a rumored writer for the new Crisis series. The reason the reboot Legion is trapped in limbo has something to do with a "force" outside reality, beating on it, almost certainly the motivating force for the upcoming crisis. I'd guess Johns kept the reboot Legion around so that he can use them for something in his upcoming Crisis series.

It seems to me that the Legion really started to lose readers after it became impossible to get them anywhere but comic book stores or subscription.

When they stopped being in every convenience store, drug store, and shop that carried the usual comics racks along with Superman and Spidey and the usual, I think they stopped getting as many new readers.

Then of course the constant reboots/renumberings didn't help.

Of course my first issue was Superboy (starring the Legion of Super-Heroes) 200 and I am still reading, so maybe my theory doesn't pan out.