Legion World Forums LEGION COMPANION Dr. Gym'll's Cultural Rarities Oh Yeah, That Forum: The Titans The Titans, The Legion, and you.

My comic book MB posting is almost exclusively on Legion boards, but if it came down to swearing allegiances I'd pull on my pleated skirt and boots, call myself LYLith, and run away with the Titans circus. The Wolfman/Perez issues circa 1983-4...ah, young love-for-comics).

As I mentioned in the Legion-reading roadmap thread, I got my first taste of Legion from bargain bins. The LSH of the early 80s was on its game, but my quarter bin forays yielded a random mix from the mid-70s on. Let's face it: some of that stuff wasn't that great. It certainly didn't measure up to anywhere near the Titans as far as I was concerned. I did like Dream Girl and Projectra, though.

In the passing years I've come to enjoy the Legion more than I did then, but Titans still remain on top of my list on the strength of those two or so years. I think the Silver Age LSH stuff was superior to the SATT, however.

That's just a little bit from my experience. How about you folks? It's not really a pick-a-side thing - I'm interested in how you saw/see the two groups (any/every era). Which did you read first? Did one lead you to the other? What about their similaries and their differences?

The first comic book I ever picked up, outside of Transformers books when I was a kid, was a Teen Titans issue because I liked the cover.

Though I've never been a hardcore fan (I have a few issues around Dick/Kory's wedding and Zero Hour issues like #0 & #114-116; that's it), I'm suprised by how many of these characters I actually know about...most from guest appearances. I find a lot of them fascinating visually, Starfire & Raven specifically, but never had the push to get me into the series. The current Titans cartoon sure as hell won't do it, so maybe this crossover will be the thing to win me over.

My Legion fandom has a bit more history to it, but that's best saved for actual participation on the roadmap. So, while not a huge Titans fan, I'll definitely know what's going on and hopefully will get to learn a few puns/fun facts in this Message Board crossover process.

The two groups have always been my favorite among the DC teams. But once the Wolfman/Perez duo left the title the Titans lost all their luster for me.

The Legion did as well, eventually. But it took longer to fall off my radar. The Titans was more like a light switch. Went from my second fav title to "I wouldn't spend another dime on this dreck" overnight.

Geoff John's latest try is the first time I've purchased a Titans book in a long while.

As clearly evidenced by the other thread, MY Titans were from issues 44-53 of the 70s run... great fun to be had there!

Back-issue bins introduced me to the late-60s TT covers of NICK CARDY, and they were stunning. A caged skeleton grabbing for Lilith; demons juggling The Titans; Titans digging graves; Titans on a raft, floating toward a giant Skull about to devour them... I bought these from the back-issue bins based on the strength of those covers.

The W/P 80s stuff I loved at the time, but much of it leaves a bad taste in my mouth now.

Liked the Grayson relaunch, thought Faerber's run was crappy (but want to reread it to see if it has camp value) and am loving Johns' current stuff!

I fell hard for the Titans when I was about 10 and the Wolfman-Perez stuff came out. I stuck with the team until the Wildebeest Society Crap Epic. After that, I maintained tenuous Titans-connections, primarily through Role Playing Game Supplements and stuff like that. I also went back in time and picked up as much of the 70s Titans as I could dig up. These 70s stories reignited my interest in the team and I returned during Devin Grayson's mediocre restart. I dropped them again. Since then, my utter dislike of teenage angst comics (I'm 32 and don't have much interest in teenagers) has limited my exposure to the current run.

In my mind, I'm split between the 70s Titans (which do hold up over time surprisingly well) and 80s Titans (which don't hold up very well over time).

The Legion is another story altogether. I first became exposed with those DC Digests when I was about 8. They were sold in my grocery store (remember those days?), and my mother would buy those because of the value. I flipped over the Heroes of Lallor, Jungle King, Mystery Lad, and those great glimpses of DC future (even in Braniac 5). I kept with the Legion as best I could, becoming a complete regular through the Levitz era and afterwards.

I dropped the Legion sometime after Zero Hour because it just wasn't my Legion. I returned with Abnett & Lanning, but I'm probably going to drop them again. I just have no interest in following pale teenage-reflections of the heroes I grew up with.

When I first starting reading every comic my father was buying, the Titans were about as bad as it could get, so I stayed away (end of Wolfman's run). I already had fallen in love with the Legion and read everything I could get my hands on by the time I got around to really enjoying the Titans.

It was Crisis On Infinite Earths that did it for me. To me, that crossover is the greatest comic book crossover that has ever been published, and despite wrecking so much at DC, is still one of the best series DC's ever had. My Dad finally said to me, "you think that's good? Check out Perez and Wolfman's run on Titans".

So I did. And I loved it. The first 50 issues of the Wolfman/Perez Titans are amazing, and 80's comics at their best. I read some of the earliest Titans issues and enjoyed them a little, but they're nowhere near as fun as the Silver Age LSH. I've never read any of the stories from the era that Lash loves. The last ten or so years haven't been that great for the Titans, but I really like John's current run.

The Legion has been my favorite comic for 40 years now, but I also got into the Teen Titans from their Very first issue! Loved the Nick Cardy art and the 60's stories... The 70's were ok, and the 80's stories were good and some of them actually survive the test of time.

I didn't really get into Teen Titans, even during their heyday (although I read some of my friend's copies). I read the "X-Men/Teen Titans" crossover though and thought Deathstroke was cool as hell.

I also read the Vigilante issue cuz of Perez's design for the character, which just jumped off the page. I ended up buying his series.

I'm old enough to remember the Superman/Aquaman cartoon show, which also featured other heroes, including the Teen Titans. So my first exposure to them was the TV version, which featured Robin, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash and Speedy.

Later, I happened to buy a TEEN TITANS comic book, #42 (Dec. 1972), which featured a bizarre adventure about a beetle brooch of Wonder Girl's that transforms itself into a warrior (or some such). I didn't quite understand the story for many years (heck, I bought another copy of that comic two years ago and still didn't get it!), but I loved the characters.

Not long after, I discovered the Legion through the reprint title, LSH v.1, # 1 (Feb. 1973). Two months later, while I was sick with the flu, my mother brought me LSH # 2. It was the first inkling I had that comics were published sequentially. I soon made a point to seek out JLA, FLASH, AVENGERS, DEFENDERS and CAPTAIN AMERICA, for starters. By then, TEEN TITANS had been cancelled (# 43 was the last issue), but I didn't know that at the time.

So the Titans missed out on my formative days as a fan, but they weren't gone for good. They were revived in 1975-78, a series with a lot of good characters and some okay ideas (and others that made me, even though I was still a pre-teen when the series began, wonder what they were thinking -- I mean, Hornblower?). The stories never seemed to go anywyhere -- Aqualad was comatose in an aquarium, Mal became Guardian, then Hornblower, then Guardian, again, and the villains (apart from Dr. Light and Two-Face) were mostly boring. When the comic died again, I was quietly relieved. Perhaps Teen Titans was an idea that had come and gone.

So, it was with great trepidation and much skepticism that I greeted Marv Wolfman and George Perez's NEW TEEN TITANS two years later, in 1980. To my astonishment, Wolfman and Perez created a bold and fresh look at teenaged (or post-teenaged) heroes as family while creating some truly memorable villains, such as Trigon and Kommand'r.

The Titans of the '80s never eclipsed my love of the Legion, but there were several years when it was undeniably better written and better drawn than the Legion. At the time, I was keeping my own monthly "top 40" list of comics, ranking them by merits of story and art. Although it was a very geeky hobby, the rankings of the two titles are illustrative: LSH v.2, under Levitz and Giffen, went to Number One 10 times, while the Baxter series, LSH v.3, under Levitz and various artists, went to Number One only twice. The original NTT series topped the chart seven times, while its Baxter successor title topped the chart eight times. That's a total of 15 Number Ones for Titans, 12 for Legion. In my eyes, no one could touch Wolfman and Perez, not even the Legion.

Alas, all things come to an end. Perez left, returned, then left again. In the meantime, CRISIS happened, and Wonder Girl was no longer Wonder Girl. Much effort was spent on creating a cosmic, new origin for her, but it lacked the emotional resonance of her earlier origin. Things just fell apart from there. Wolfman tried to keep the spirit alive, but it just wasn't happening. I dropped NEW TITANS in 1992.

I did not pick a Titans book up again until 1999, or so, when Devin Grayson's version was launched. I stuck with this title until shortly before it ended with # 50. There were some good stories and interesting developments (Jay Faerber is not as bad a writer as some suggest -- check out his NOBLE CAUSES -- but I do think he was out of his element on TITANS. The sleezy aspects of super-hero soap opera play better when you're not using characters with an established history). But, all in all, the series was dispensible. I have not followed the current version of the Titans.

Titans and Legion seem to be inextricably linked, both in my mind and the minds at DC, it seems, although they really needn't be. The two teams have virtually nothing in common, other than the ages of their members. Still, there was a time when both comics entered my formative psyche within a few months of each other, and another time when NEW TITANS and LSH were the best mainsteam comics had to offer. The fact that their paths are crossing again seems only natural.

Yet another Wolfman-Perez Titans fan here - I read Titans as a kid in the '60s but it wasn't a favourite. I couldn't put a finger on just what I liked about the W-P series - the Starfire story, their interactions with each other, both as heroes and "civilians", they didn't act like sidekicks anymore ... but at some point I lost interest and never picked the book up again.

Although I've read good comments here about TT, it just hasn't managed to break into my "buy" list. I don't think I'm too keen on teenage hero stories at this point, apart from the Legion.

Even after my interest waned, I still picked up Titans when I found it in the quarter box. Maybe it's time to read them in order - and for some of them, perhaps for the first time.

Quarter bin finds also account for a good chunk of my Legion collection....

Quarter bins area valuable resource. I picked up much of 5YL that way.

I've been digging up old Titans stuff today and it's taken me down memory lane. I remember believing that the Nick Cardy cover with Robin at a grave getting ready to quit and all the ghost Titans in the background was the most beautiful piece of art I'd ever seen.



It was a pretty low point for comics for me. All I could find were a few books at a small town drugstore and fortunately they had those Teen Titans. I thought it was just wonderful...until they started getting too deeply involved with Mr.Jupiter. To me they just weren't as much fun in grey jumpsuits instead of their costumes.
I still bought it sporadically for quite a while after that but I've gotta tell you, Wonder Girl has never looked better than when Nick penciled her.

GAWD, Nick Cardy is an incredible talent. Post the cover to # 42, Teeds, the raft cover.

Yeah, isn't it gorgeous? That cover just slew me, I fell in love with it.

I loved the borders DC and Marvel used to do in those days, particularly with the characters lined up on the left.

I love to read this stuff, keep it coming!

Ok.

The first Legion comic I remember reading was the first appearence of the Hunter where he basically worked his way through a comic book version of "The Most Dangerous Game". I loved it and I wanted more but my friend only had that one Adventure comic in his collection. Something else else about it just fascinated me. Not long afterward I got the issue where Ferro Lad joined the and totally fell in love with the Legion.
What was that '66 or '67? Something else else like that.

My dad was military and we lived in the Philippines back then and sometimes I could find older comics off base but I depended on my weekly dose of surreality to keep me sane. Heck, I got a dollar a week for my allowance and I could buy 8 comic books every week.(no taxes on base) It was a wonderful time to be a little boy.

I was something of a Superboy fan at the time and the idea that even he could find a club where he could enjoy the company of his equals just thrilled me to no end. I admired Supes (who didn't back in those days?) but the Legion was full of people that were mostly just like me.

I tell you it was heavenly and I've been a Legion fan ever since...over thirty years now.

Well, I remember buying my first Legion book off the racks, SUPERBOY AND THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES #213. Quite a nice story to start off with. It showcased in an exciting way a lot of characters and it got me hooked. Unfortunately, as a kid, I didn't exactly do a great job back then of buying each issue.

For the Legion, that started with #288 or so. The beginning of Levitz/Giffen era. I haven't missed an issue since and have been dilligently collecting the everything Legion (including those missing back issues) ever since.

As for Titans - I had bought (apparently, although I don't remember doing so) TEEN TITANS #52.

But, I didn't get hooked until I saw the ad for NEW TEEN TITANS vol.1 #1. Using that Ad as a reference, my friends and I started to play like we were Titans. Back then I thought the green guy was Raven. That the black robot guy was Starfire. That the alien chick was Changeling. And not knowing what it meant, that the hooded girl was Cyborg.

I was Raven until the issue actually came out and I realized my mistake. Perez's pretty pictures mesmerized me and for a time the Titans were the series for me. I remember when #4 came out. I would set up selected pages on my dresser as a poster to look at before I went to sleep at night. Most of my original issues are marked up from me tracing over Perez.

But unlike the Legion, the Titans were tied to Perez for me. Without him my interest waned. I've collected each issue sure. But certainly not with the passion I've had with the Legion.

I remember a LOT of excitement going on for the Perez/Wolfman relaunch of the Titans. I'd read the preview that was published prior to the comic and waited (more or less) breathlessly for the book to come out.
I didn't really like the fact that Kid Flash was being suckered by some raven haired temptress (pun intended ) and fully expected to see her turn into a major villian for the Titans within just a few issues. Ok, so I was wrong but still those were great stories.

Yes, that ad! Hell, I didn't even see it back then. Even TODAY I stop and look at the full-page ad when I run across it in various DC titles.

Wonder Bump!

Found this thread today while browsing through the back pages of the Titans forum.

When I first got into superhero comics in the early 90s, I felt that both Titans and Legion seemed to be going off the rails (IIRC, it was the second phase of Titans Hunt for the former and Quiet Darkness/SW6 for the latter) so I didn't pay much attention to them.

I might never have become a major fan of the Wolfman/Perez era if not for two trades: one was The Judas Contract, the other was DC/Marvel Crossover Classics, which included Uncanny X-Men/New Teen Titans. To this day, I regard UXM/NTT as a high-water mark of the entire history of superhero comics. Judas Contract was good, too, but I like the issues that closely preceded it (which I bought as cheap back issues) better -- I think NTT hit its peak in between the first space opera and the Raven Berserk issue. The pre-NTT Titans never held much interest for me, despite those great Nick Cardy covers.

Meanwhile, I was buying scattered back issues of the Legion, but unlike the Titans with Wolfman/Perez, there seemed at the time to be no definitive era. Levitz/Giffen just didn't do it for me, largely because I found Giffen's art disturbingly cold and sexless even BEFORE he got all weird.

In the late 90s, I went on a hiatus from comics that lasted until the mid 00s.

When I came back, it was another case of poor timing with the Titans. I had missed most of the cream of the Johns/McKone Teen Titans, and McKone had one foot out the door, and the Neverending Crisis Era was beginning to pollute the entire DCU. With the Legion, I jumped into the Threeboot with #7 and hung all the way into the first few issues of Shooter's less-than-stellar return. I've since sold almost all those Threeboot issues, but I've kept the first four Johns Teen Titans trades.

Meanwhile, I got majorly into collecting Legion back issues and archive hardcovers, and have come to regard the first 32 issues of the Baxter run -- LSH vs. LSV through Universo Project -- as the definitive era.

At this point, I'm still cautiously optimistic about Levitz's return to the Legion, while not bothering at all with the Titans. At this point, I think the Titans need to go away for a few years and then relaunch with a mix of old Titans and brand-new Titans. My top-choice creative team would be Kathryn Immonen and Amanda Conner.