Legion World Forums LEGION OUTPOST Bits o' Legionnaire Business [Earth-3992] Imperial Guard: The Series Chat Thread

INTRODUCTION

This originally started as a Secret Files and Origins thread for Imperial Guard: The Series .

Not long after I started it, I had some personal problems that kept me away from fanfic writing for a long time.

But now that's over, and I've decided to turn this into a thread where we can discuss Imperial Guard: The Series.

Please be upfront with any criticisms you might have. I believe that criticism helps a writer improve.

The second storyarc of Imperial Guard: The Series has reached its end.

What did you think of the story?

Stealth, I just finished the second story arc. Another awesome story about the Imperial Guard! Like I said earlier to you, though I’ve always known about the IG, I’ve never really had an intricate sense of who they were until reading your first story-arc. What made this one as fun as the first story but very different was an even better sense of who some of the Guardsman were, as we got to learn specifically about the characters themselves.

First, I really like your writing. As I’ve said, you really have a way of presenting your stories like the comics of the 1980’s when each story had a very focused, real plot that went somewhere and took the characters to new places without going all over the map. It really helps the reader stay focused on what’s happening and heightens the drama. Very Roger Stern, and you know we both consider that a great compliment!

Second, its obvious that you love these characters but what I like is that you’ve made them your own. Nightside might be my favorite and your love of her and Shady shines through. Gravitress, also a major Guardsman, also is easily a fave, and I think I like her more than I like Ayla Her baptism of fire, which is the underlying theme in her scenes throughout the story, is very well done. Little bits like Oracle being creeped out by Mentor are welcome! You also write Ronan very well, who has always been a favorite character of mine.

The aftermath from the battle with Fatal Force is especially powerful throughout the story. Oracle’s fear of losing Flashfire after all they recently lost, the hesitation by many Guardsman throughout in their words to each other. What I really found done strongly was the scene with Smasher and Oracle, and Smasher’s feelings of failure towards Gladiator (I’ve always loved those two characters).

The political landscape of Hala is also really interesting. Deathbird as ‘Peace Bringer’ is an interesting take, and I like how the Guardsman don’t see eye to eye. In fact, I’m amazed at how well you know and understand the entire cosmic scope of the MU space beyond Earth. Not only that, but you’re taking it to the next level with each story.

The relationship between Nightside and Gravitress is paramount to the story, and the reaction at Nightside’s supposed death and Gravitress saving the day is well done. But it’s the following scenes, with the possible love-triangle of the two with Ultimus that are really interesting! I can’t wait to see what’s next! Their earlier talk about the soap operas is very foreshadowing indeed!

A really great read Stealth! As always, its much more enjoyable for me to read the stories in their entirety so I’m glad I waited for it to be complete. Can’t wait to hear other’s thoughts and more of your own!

Wow. To be compared to Roger Stern in his 1980's prime...I'm walking on air. Thank you.

Glad to hear it. Yeah, I'm very pleased with the way she's evolved. Years ago, when I first made notes for what turned out to be my first IG storyarc, she was a lot more like Ayla, with a twin brother and a chip on her shoulder -- thank God that when I finally got down to work on the story, she changed for the better; I really do believe the old writers' saying that characters write themselves.

Thanks. I really put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into Ronan -- I felt like I had a responsibility to do right by one of Marvel's most enduring villains (40 years since his first appearance!), although from reading the spoilers for the first Annihilation, it sounds like in current Earth-616 continuity he's more of an anti-hero. I'm hoping that he'll do a Magneto and revert to villainy. But getting back to Earth-3992, what really resonates for me about villains like Ronan and the Supreme Intelligence and Corruption and Dr. Minerva in a post-conquest-by-the-Shi'ar scenario is that while their methods are monstrous, their motivation is not, because at heart they simply don't want to see their proud heritage eradicated by the Shi'ar.

Without spoiling anything, I'm happy to say that we'll be seeing a lot of both Smasher and Gladiator in the next arc, and their brotherly bond will be put to the test.

One of my favorite scenes in Operation: Galactic Storm is Deathbird's soliloquy towards the end, the gist of which is, "how like me Lilandra has become, and how like her I am becoming." That, to me, is the core of how she should have evolved; of course, while her heart is in the right place, she is inevitably prone to backslide into her old self (tunnelvision, temper tantrums) from time to time – I do, however, think that she has it in her to eventually make the full transition and redeem herself. Meanwhile, Lilandra is facing a crossroads that could lead to either insanity or damnation, the burden that every Shi'ar ruler eventually has to deal with; I had meant to cover this in the second storyarc, but I decided it would have negatively affected the story’s pace; she will definitely be in the third storyarc.

Re: the MU cosmos – Marvel has such potential to equal DC for rich space operas, but they’ve only come close in fits and starts, I guess because, unlike DC, their cosmos was not built on a strong foundation by writers or editors with ties to the science-fiction community. And while I haven’t gotten into either of the Annihilation epics to date, I think they are a very positive thing and I hope they continue for years to come; they’re definitely a step in the right direction, and I’m confident that eventually they’ll put together a combination of cosmic characters that fully engages me.

Over the course of the past year-and-a-half, writing these stories while at the same time filling the gaps in my Levitz/Baxter Legion collection, I’ve come to realize that I always wished Levitz had brought together Shady and Ayla instead of Vi and Ayla, and I’m working that out through these stories. Of course, it’s not for sure that they’ll end up together – there’s a long road ahead for this particular love-triangle. Oh, and don’t worry, Vi fans, because Scintilla’s not being ignored my me; she is one of the stars of the fourth storyarc (Imperial Espionage Squad, anyone?)

Re: the soap opera foreshadowing – that was totally unconscious! Thanks for the sharp observation. This is an example of why I love discussing my stories with other people.

Stealth - thanks for the invite. I haven't read your second arc yet (don't take it personally, I don't think I've read any stories since I started coming back here more semi-regularly).

However, since you asked me to, I'm gonna read your story and comment on it for you - and I have no fear of criticising where I feel it's needed.

Cheers, I'll be in touch.
Numf x

Ditto, I'll get onto this soon and let you know how fantastic it is.

Ok, i reread the first arc cause it's been a while and then I read the second arc.

I love it Stealth. Gravitress continues to shine.

I kind of pulled for Ronan because no self-respecting Kree would accept Deathbird aka Peace-Bringer or the the Shiar to rule over them. It will be interesting to see if Ronan will rise up again.

As for Battle-Charger? Wow, thanks for the credit. If you want I can make a new one. I am thinking more or an armor/military look. I still like the Shiar hair-do though. PM me if you have a certain look in mind.

I still love Fatal Force. Those guys are just cool. Wouldn't mind seeing more of your original characters thrown in. Wouldn't mind more Legion parallels either.

I’m glad you’re enjoying these stories. And thanks for the kind words about Gravitress.

That’s a good point. I can’t really make a counterpoint without spoiling future storyarcs, but I can say that perhaps some of the Kree might have personal motives to pretend to accept Peace-Bringer as their ruler. I can also say that the unfortunate Korath went along with Peace-Bringer because he wanted himself and his Pursuers to replace the Accusers as the Kree’s official police force, and we all know how that turned out.

Thank you for the offer. I’ll definitely think about it.

I’m happy to say that there are plenty more of all those things to come.

I just got around to reading this a few days ago, but hadn't gotten around to feedback yet.

Awesome stuff. I'm intrigued by the character development paths you've chosen, which are pretty much wide-open, since we haven't seen many of the Imperials fleshed out. (and when we have, such as Gladiator, the portrayal has been terribly inconsistent)

I had worked at them from another direction for a story I never got around to writing. In my take, Gladiator's fluctuating power levels, and fluctuating personality, were connected, as he was a 'psychic conduit' for the will of the people of his home-world. They weren't aware, moment to moment, what he was doing with all of the psychic energy they were sending him, but the shifting opinions of his people would tend to produce all sorts of stress, and his popularity back home would also tie into his power levels (public video of him getting his butt kicked would put his people in a funk, and result in him having less power overall, until he built up his own, and his people's, confidence. Unless seeing him get his butt kicked by someone they *hated* got them all riled up, then he might find himself powered up more than ever, and also *compelled* to rush headlong towards whatever kicked his butt, urged on by the will of his people...).

I do like how the various team-members aren't exact clones of the Legion. Oracle isn't just Saturn Girl 2.0, she's also a precognitive. Smasher has an Ultra Boy-like symbol on his chest, but actually seems to have some sort of gravitational powers (as demonstrated in X-Men 137), which seem to be touch-range, allowing him to fling people around.

Your portrayal of Manta is, so far, my favorite.

Now I'm wondering what a 'Substitute Imperial Guard' would end up looking like...

That's what makes it such a pleasure to write these characters, they're blank canvases that can be splashed with any colors of a writer's choosing. There are some bits from their earlier appearances that lend themselves to potential gold: in their first appearance, Starbolt blasts Wolverine for threatening his lover, Oracle; instead of ignoring this, I can give it the spin that before finding true love with Flashfire, Oracle dated Starbolt. There are other bits that I just have to ignore because they're so wrong: in an Operation: Galactic Storm tie-in, co-written by failed would-be LSH writer Roy Thomas, Nightside says something to the effect of, "I admit my power is not impressive, that is why I carry a gun." Ugh.

Your take on the reason behind Gladiator's erratic behavior and erratic power level is intriguing. I have a much different one, which will be revealed in the third storyarc. I'll be interested in finding out what you think of it.

Yes. That way lies the Squadron Supreme, and I'm being very careful to stay avoid that.

There's really something special about the Imperial Guard members who appeared in the final chapter of Dark Phoenix, particularly the three new ones that debuted in that issue: Manta, Hussar, and Warstar -- Byrne's designs were every bit as good as Cockrum's. It was not easy for me to kill Warstar, but oftentimes a writer has to act on instinct.

Imperial Guard analogs of my favorite Subs -- Night Girl, Polar Boy, Chlorophyll Kid, and Infectious Lass -- will appear sometime in the future.

And she was later portrayed as dating Gladiator (and in the Exiles, a universe where Manta dates Gladiator has been visited). Gladiator has also been portrayed, in the future, as Lilandra's back-door man. So much bed-hopping! The Shi'ar must be a very progressive culture, sexually.

Feh. As Karate Kid, Batman, Captain America, etc. demonstrate, one's powers do not measure one's level of effectiveness. Plus, darkness control can be easily ramped up to darkforce-powers (like Darkstar, toon-Raven or the Superboy's Legion version of Shadow Lass) or tweaked to affect other forms of energy-dampening.

In any event, the power to *stop light* is nothing to sneeze at if the traditional high-tech enemies are using *laser weapons.*

"I'm sorry Mr. Jedi, but you wouldn't happen to have a 'Dark Saber,' would you? 'Cause that sparkly toy you've got isn't going to work within 100 meters of my sensitive skin..."

As long as there is a recipe of some sort a-brewin,' I'm fine with waiting to see what comes out of the kitchen.

Warstar and Manta were faves back in their first appearance, Hussar and Earthquake, not so much. I was never clear if Hussar actually had powers, or just used skill and some alien tech. For my own unwritten works, I had the electrical jolt be bio-electrical, and conductive through touch, or, more usefully in a close combat, through her metal extensible whip. I also had said bioelectric field allow her to be a bit stronger, faster, etc. than the average whatever-the-heck-she-was, as she was naturally 'supercharged.'

As the original Imperials were Legion analogues, I kinda thought of the X-Men 137 Imperials as Teen Titans-inspired, with Earthquake having Terra's powers, Manta resembling Raven (but having powers based on light, while Ravens were based on darkness) and Hussar looking like Raven in her 'Trigon's Daughter' phase, all red-furred and antler-y.

Wait 'til you see some of the stuff coming up in future storyarcs.

Or the preboot Shadow Lass's ancestor, L.E.G.I.O.N. member Lydea Mallor. She's a favorite of mine.

Sounds good to me. Thanks for sharing that, I'll definitely use it for reference.

And I can't believe I forgot about Earthquake.

X-Men # 137 is cover-dated September 1980, New Teen Titans # 1 is cover-dated November 1980, and Terra and Trigon's Daughter happened a few years later, so it's the Titans who were IG-inspired.

Set, I always saw Earthquake as being Blok, Manta possibly being Lightning Lass/Nightwind, and Hussar being Dream Girl of sorts.

(Though Manta I'm not too sure about)

Thanks for a captivating story, Stealth! I went back and read from the beginning. My prior knowledge of the Imperial Guard was zero so I'm hazy on the background (glad you filled in a bit of backstory!), but that didn't affect my enjoyment at all.

Nightside, in my opinion, is a better Shadow Lass than Shadow Lass. She's more regal, tougher, her powers seem to be stronger. Shadow Lass is my favourite female Legionnaire, but I'm annoyed by her various versions' failings - the clingy lover of the pre-boot, the bitchiness post-boot.

The villains are really villainous! Dr. Minerva... yeow!! The Fatal Force has a lot more punch than the Fatal Five and, given their powers, are more realistic. I suppose the Fatal Five were limited by the Comics Code. Your guys really leave a gory trail; they are seriously nasty and powerful.

I read your comment that Peace-Bringer is in transition from her former Deathbird persona. This character disappointed me, not because of your writing at all, just the way she is. "You're doing a heckuva job, Peace-Bringer!" comes to mind. She seems not to be in control of her emotions or the task at hand. A person who embraces pacifism after a life of battle should be stronger. Is she sincere? Over her head? Suffering from a breakdown? And will she achieve some balance in the end? All questions in the mind as I read her scenes. This one has potential to be a really fascinating character. Are you trying to stick to the Marvel canon or planning to take these characters off in your own direction?

You gave a good sense of Gravitress as the new kid trying to fit in with the group, not only through her own eyes but through others' reactions to her. Very realistic!

The simmering, unrequited romance is fun! You write the action scenes well, but my favourite parts are the characters' personal interactions.

One final comment: couldn't help but think that "cosmic crackle" would be a great name for a candy bar. Or a street drug, for that matter.

Thank you, FC. That is the highest compliment anyone could give my Imperial Guard stories. I’m walking on air again.

She's my fave, too, but I agree one hundred percent about those failings. And I think LSH writers could learn a lot from the way Alan Grant & Barry Kitson wrote Tasmia's ancestors, Lyrissa and Lydea, in L.E.G.I.O.N.

Again, there's the influence of Alan Grant & Barry Kitson’s work on L.E.G.I.O.N. (which, of course, did not have the Comics Code.) Pulsar Stargrave, Dagon Ra, the 20th Century Khunds, Max G’odd, Ig’nea, the 20th Century LSV – each and every one of them awesome in their nastiness.

She is sincere, but she is also very unstable, and her behavior has always been erratic for the same reason as Gladiator – inconsistent writing. That’s why I’m only keeping the bare bones of her Marvel canon continuity -- the key element for me is that she once seized the throne of the Shi’ar empire from her sister Lilandra and then willingly turned it back over to her sister; shortly afterward came Operation: Galactic Storm, where she witnessed the Hiroshima-like devastation of the Kree empire which resulted in her decision to change her vicious ways, right at the same time that Lilandra made her Viceroy of Hala. But old habits die hard, and I also really think that the Shi’ar royal family, the Nerimanis, must have a history of mental illness that is only compounded by the burden of ruling (or having once ruled) the empire – it warped Peace-Bringer, and is now in the process of warping Lilandra.

Having said that, I do think there is a possibility of her achieving a balance, just as there is a possibility of her sister breaking the cycle of madness. But that will depend on where the characters take me. If Peace-Bringer does complete her transition, I want it to happen organically.

I've gotta admit, after her use during the Jim Lee era of X-Men, I ended up liking Deathbird a *heck* of a lot more than Lilandra. Deathbird, for all her psycho-behavior, came off as genuine, while Lilandra always seemed kind of 'off' somehow, like she wasn't entirely connected to the world around her.

Distracted and out-of-touch? Not good qualities in a leader. Hardly a shock that even as 'Imperatrix,' Lilandra comes off as a hapless victim of her own advisors and citizens, forced to order all sorts of stuff she *claims* to oppose, but can't seem to give a rat's butt enough to do anything to stop...

It's like she's riding the tiger, and doesn't know how to get off, just holding on for dear life and trying to *look* like she's the one in charge.

I agree 100% Set. Lilandra always seemed weak and a victim. Her brother and sister are obviously better suited to rule. Her brother is dead again...I think. I wouldn't be suprised if Deathbird takes the throne again.

While I mostly agree with you guys about Lilandra, I think that the repercussions of Operation: Galactic Storm could have been a great opportunity for her character to evolve, as she was facing a challenge so great that she could no longer afford to detach herself and delegate everything and generally show a lack of spine. Of course, Marvel let that opportunity slip away, but I'm planning to take full advantage of that opportunity in my Earth-3992 Imperial Guard stories.