Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! So, after two years how does the Threeboot compare to the others?

Tell what you liked more about the series than the previous version and what you felt was inferior about the current version to the others.

For me, here's how I consider the Threeboot to have stood up to the others.

Pro-Characters: One of the biggest benefits of this storyline was the fact that all of the old favorites were back that had been largely shuffled off to the side of treated quite shabbily. Karate Kid, Princess Projectra, Dream Girl, Starboy, and others were back to their normal selves.

Pro-Slightly Older Characters: For all of the Legions flaws, the Threeboot legion was a bunch of adults as opposed to the ridiculously young heroes that really shouldn't have been adventuring anywhere outside of the Power Pack.

Pro-Big and Universal Threats: The Dominators adventures and Praetor Lemnos remain two very big matters to deal with and I very much enjoyed them both. They threatened the entire UP with their terrible strengths.

Pro-Faboo Art: I just loved the redesigns on most of the heroes and heroines. Princess Projectra and Shadow Lass have never looked so sexy/tough (Shadow Lass also manages to be sexy without looking like she's going to work for rent money on the street corner)

Con-James Dean generic angst: I liked the idea that the Star Trek utopia is a place that would cause ambitious, intelligent, and determined people no end of frustration. However, some simple "I can't get a job" or "People live centuries so no promotion opportunities exist" would work better than "People don't talk much except via holocom."

There's a lot of room to work within a society of near-immortal people without degrading it to simple youth rebellion.

Con-Cosmic Boy is still boring as cardboard: The Dream Girl/Brainiac 5 thing was actually interesting. Cos with a crush on Imra was one of the few things I liked on the old boot but they RUINED that romance. Then they did the same to him and Supergirl.

Con-Superficial Relationships: We really don't know what's behind most of the matters here and there. I'd have appreciated getting into what people REALLY like and dislike about others. Only Brainy and dream Girl got any real development.

Ok, first off, I haven't read a lot of the post zero hour Legion, so my comparison to them will be incomplete at best, and if I assume something that is false feel free to correct me.

Ok...here's go...

Likes--

Like--Kid/Lass/Lad names--look, to me it makes perfect sense that people inspired by SuperMAN (or BOY), BatMAN, Wonder WOMAN, would have corny names. When ever you ask a kid to come up with a super hero you generally get something like, Captain Amazing or Mighty Man or the Crimson Chin. Super corny, but it makes sense. Names like Apparition, Triad, Livewire, etc. although "cooler" don't make much sense for heroes inspired by the corny names of yesteryear (less face it, Superman, dorky name).

Like--Most characters are back. I picked up some DnA issues, and it seemed to me that it was until after the Dream Crime arc that Dream Girl (Dreamer) actually joined the Legion. What huh?
That said, still missing some biggies (Wildfire?), but I do like the team being established and together (for the most part) from the get go.

Like--Humor--I will have to say, this book has had its moments. It's been funny and witty without being cheesy, so that's good.

Like---Characterizations in early issues--I felt Waid did a good job of introducing the characters to us through their interaction with eachother.
That said, I feel that when the war (with Lemnos) started picking up, we lost this and have rarely gotten back to it. It seems that the rest of the Legion has been ignored for the Supergirl/Cos/Brainy show and we don't even get cute quips anymore.

Like--Costume desings--for the most part I like them, I really like how Shadow Lass looks, she's sexy but not slutty. I really like Cos' look. As for the others, I don't necissarily prefer them over other looks, but I don't dislike them either.
That said--why does Vi have guns? especially since she hasn't used them. I'm not a big fan of guns with heroes to begin with, but if you're going to give a hero a gun, have them use it, otherwise there is not point.
Also, I am concerned at how well the redesigns will hold up under different artist. The good thing about Lightning Lad's old look was that very few artists could make it look bad, but his new look, well lazy art can kill it (same with Dream Girl's pants)


Dislikes--

Dislike--slow pace. A lot happens in an issue, but nothing happens at the same time. It seems that, even though robots get destroyed, the actual overall plot is only advanced a little and the characters never go anywhere. Princess Projectra's homeworld is gone, and we get more focus on Supergirl and her stupid dream (argh!). And, what was the point of the Robot Rebellion?
I will say this, the post zero hour Legion had a ton of stuff happening in it during the first twenty issues and I really enjoyed that.

Dislikes--No orgin--this really had been bugging me more and more. I can understand not wanting to start at the very begining, but we should have had an orgin issue by now. Especially since the Legion is about politics now but Waid never bothered explaining the why or how.

Dislikes--Politics--Ugh! worst execution ever. I'm not to big on the idea behind this to begin with, but with no real explanation to why these kids care the political issue has just been dead weight for this series dragging it down.
first off, no youth movement has ever existed (that I know of) without an adult starting the idea, some teacher has always been the spark that ignited these movements. However, so far, all we know is that Cos, Imra, and Garth woke up one day and decided to start a revolution, LAME.
Two, most of the Legionnaires don't seem to care about their message. How do these kids get chosen to get a flight ring? Political zeal obviously isn't a factor
Three, the founders, Cos is the only one who seems to care about the movement. Garth and Imra just want to have fun.
Four, what happens when Cos or the others become 18?

Dislikes--Timeline--it's obvious that the Legion has been around for awhile, yet the Legionnaires still must be underagers? makes me wonder how young Cos, Garth and Imra were when they started the Legion.

Dislikes--why Super-heroes?--except a few brief mentions, I haven't really seen them do anything that is very super heroic. Examples- the big beef with Lemnos, is that he was going to start a war which would involve underagers (which, by the way, why would the UP draft those who are not legal age, isn't that rather old-fashioned). also, when the delegates are being killed, Cos doesn't tell Mekt to shove it, they are going to save the delegates because it is right, but rather that because it is strategic, ugh.

Dislike--Cos--I'm wierd, but I've always kinda liked Cos, the poor kid who is forced to be the straight man, the mature and responsible one. Yet in this version he is becoming more and more the unlikable jerk. How does he have any friends? I want to see him unclench and chill with Dirk or Garth or Imra or something where we see that he is more than the hard line leader.

Dislike--Sueprgirl--I don't like Supergirl, I didn't want her in Legion, and she stopped being interesting in this book awhile ago. Her 'issues' have dragged out long enough, I just have three words for S-girl GET OVER IT!

Ok, didn't want to be a downer, but as this series has progressed it's gone from and enjoyable book I loved, to one that drives me insane with frustration.

For the positives, I'll just repost from Positive Things About Mark and Barry\'s Run :

First, I love the fact that they restored the Legion to its "club" roots and away from the government-sponsored stuff of some previous incarnations.

Second, the Legion-as-SCA idea was brilliant. I really wished they'd emphasized that more than some of the themes that became prominent instead.

Third, at least they got rid of all the horrendous codenames that the team was saddled with during the 1990s! If nothing else, I will always be grateful to Mark and Barry for that!

Fourth, there's the return to more individualized outfit choices rather than the more "uniform" look of previous incarnations.

Fifth... Projectra was not a snake!


For the negatives:

First, I really disliked the "re-imagining" of various supporting cast members as generic aliens to stock groups such as the Wanderers.

Second, alien invasions. I'm sick of 'em.

Third, murderously slow pace. I think like this entire series so far would've filled like five issues maximum in the Adventure Era.

Fourth, okay, so I understand not re-using overused villains like Darkseid and Universo, but there's tons of interesting under-used villains in Legion history. Use one of them.

I think Cosmic, Saturn Girl, and Lightning Lad are all legally adults by our standards. "Kids" apparently includes up to mid-twenties in this era, which explains their frustrations better. That actually is pretty true in our time now as well to be honest.

Part of the issue seems to be everyone keeps thinking they're all about sixteen when the majority of the Legionaires seem to be well over it.

Hmmm...I wouldn't palce them at mid-twenties, but you are right,they do seem around 18, maybe 20. But that is something that should have been explained to us. If this is about underagers vs adults, what makes one an underager? I have no idea what the actual legal age is, it just looks like Cos is older than 16, but who knows?

anyways, I still think its a concept that hasn't been fully explained and detracts from the actual appeal of the Legion.

Likes

The artwork. When BK was on form he made this version of the future look fantastic and complex and alive. His backgrounds were always full of life, as they should be in a major capital city. Alien tourists, migrant workers and of course the little legionnaires were all shown.

I liked most of the costume redesigns although Sun Boys original design and Dream girl’s pants were a bit yuck for my tastes.

I also for the most part enjoyed the character redesigns. It sort of makes sense for Imra to be mute, although this may be by choice rather than physical, as telepaths in sci fi seem to have always been shown to be better communicating mind to mind without the interference of voice communication.

And I think I’m in a minority by liking Supergirl in the Legion.


Dislikes

The slow slow pace of the story. I think to be honest most of this is dictated by external factors as much as anything else. The way some Legion story reveals seem to have been delayed to coincide with events happening in 52 and MW’s involvement in that series may have contributed here. I need to read the trades in one go to see if they read better that way than as single monthly issues.

In hindsight it's pretty easy to see the "checkpoints" - Infinite Crisis, One-Year Later, 52, and now Countdown. I think that's ultimately the bigger scheme the creators spoke about 3 years ago. I wonder if disaffected readers would have enjoyed it more and had more patience with the slow pace if they'd viewed it in the context of something much larger to unfold in 2008. Maybe, maybe not.

I for one appreciate the effort to reconnect the Legion to the DCU by constructing a framework much stronger and long-lasting than the occasional crossover arc. I hope it holds.

Besides the entire "Eat it Grandpa" stuff I consider it better than the postboot ZH Legion. The pacing was too slow and the legion teen movement was too annoying but i still think it was pretty good. I didn't start liking it until about issue #17?

Wow. Judging by these previous posts, I'm going to be in the minority.

For starters, I liked the post-ZH Legion. When I decided to really follow the team seriously, it was during their run, so naturally I grew to like them. The characters, the art, the situations and story arcs, I really liked the feel of that team.

But now for Waid and Kitson.

What I like: Waid's thinking. His solo shots at various characters like Phantom Girl and Triplicate Girl are fascinating, offering new insights into their their characters and their powers. The art and re-design. Honestly, if DC Direct doesn't release a T-shirt version of Sun Boy's new look, something is wrong with them. The new looks are great.

What I dislike: Youth movement. This goes back to Waid's thinking. I admit that he has brought a fresh new inventive way to view the group but I see this 'origin' as kinda weak. I mean the only reason they banded together was to hang out and thumb their noses at all the adults? And then Whoops! Look out, it's an invasion and we have to go save all those adults. And I'll agree with y'all about the slow pacing. I sometimes forget what's happened in between issues, if anything.

Last thing, I did love the return of the letter pages. That was cool and having the team themselves answer letters was fun. I just wish they would do that more often.

To answer the original question, it compares badly. Two big mistakes were made in this run:

First, the writer's need to reboot in the first place. Why certain creative people feel the need to change around characters who have been developed over years (decades) is disturbing (can you say "ego"?). All the post DnA run needed was some good storytelling, but instead we get the Legion turned on its head for no reason. This leads to the jumbled mess we now have. Mr. Giffen was the first to grind up the Legion foundation - to his own amusement only - and that attempt and every attempt since then has been a miserable failure and just compounded the problem which is now a schizophrenia of Legion characters. The JLA/JSA/Legion crossover has it right in jettisoning all the reboot crap since 1994 and going back to the Adventure/Action/Superboy basics.

The second mistake was trying to inject some grandiose meaning to this boot - kids vs. adult society. The title spent way too much time hammering home this 'ideal' and it turned out to be uninteresting and even annoying at times. This, IMO, was what bogged down the storytelling more than any efforts to pace with developments in DC Universe titles like 52 and others. After 29 issues, what has this reboot really added to the Legion legacy? The death of Dream Girl (really - any hack can kill off ANY Legionnaire. How about a creative way of saving them?) and an extended look at the Dominators. Negatively, Lemnos and Terror Firma and the 'New" Wanderers are totally forgettable. The rewrite of many of the Legion origins and powers and their new jumbled relationships was totally unnecessary and just adds to the confusion. Triplicate Girl's new 'origin' was totally stupid, and Colossal Boy, Shrinking Violet, Saturn Girl, Invisible Kid, Phantom Girl and Timber Wolf have all suffered
miserably from their revised attributes.

I'd say it doesn't hold up that well. The art was great though. But at the end of the day, I found myself caring less than I have since I was old enough to start reading the Legion. Its hard to say (personally) if it was the writing's fault or other boot-related factors.

Jeckie as a not a snake was pretty awesome though. A clear reminder of how if only the reboot didn't make such glaring mistakes so many wouldn't have kept their pitch-forks out throughout its ten years.

I actually liked it better than ZH Legion. Though I hated the ZH postboot Legion for a long time. Even DNA's early run. The last series is when I got into it.

I hate the "Eat it Grandpa" thing. The teen thing went overboard. The anarcho-fans thing. I just don't see teens liking anything old much less what Waid likes.

The names? You know I don't mind the lad/lass/boy/girl but I think some of the postboot names worked better. Just like the costumes I think they should just choose the best ones.

The setup was good. That's the important thing. Any writer can come in and so whatever they please with it. The foudation is solid.

I honestly think the large emphasis on Eat It Grandpa killed the book.

I initially loved just having the Legion back, even if everyone and everything wasn't 'right.'

Compared to the previous five or ten years, where Projectra was a snake, and the earth got Blighted / Blown Up / Terrorformed six times a year, it's been an absolute delight, as I've gotten to see stories about old friends.

But as early as the issue with Triplicate Girl spying on her team-mates, I knew that this was going to have stuff in it I hated at least as much. Instead of *heroes,* we are given a team full of people with their names and their powers who are basically spoiled super-powered troublemakers. Ultra Boy makes an argument that because he has powers, he doesn't have to follow the rules, that the grown-ups will just clean up after him anyway, so he can break or mess up anything he wants, and he doesn't seem to realize that if he continues to inspire hundreds of thousands of underagers to go nuts like he does, *they won't be able to keep up.* He's completely irresponsible, and justifies his choices to Trip, even noting that, since he can blast SP drones out of the air with flash vision, he doesn't have to obey them.

And then later, Trip reveals that he's wanted for crimes that she 'hopes aren't true.' Seriously, is she that willing to hang out with the Legion that she'll work with, even hang out with, someone she *hopes* isn't a bad-guy?

Ultra Boy has always had a bad-boy streak, always been impulsive, always come from the 'mean streets' of Rimbor, with criminal associations and a gangster past and all that, but this is the exact opposite of the Jo I grew up with. The Jo that got away from that life and became a hero. This Jo is a thug, and as Trip (and later Mekt) points out, is only a Legionnaire because he's a follower looking for a 'gang' to call home.

To heck with that noise.

This book needs R.J. Brande. The divisive 'old vs. young' crap falls down for me.

It seems to me that the only way Brande could show up now is if he is the only adult who 'gets' them and their cause.