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Joined: Aug 2003
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Just a question. Having given up on LSH during v4 and never coming back (except for the Archie Legion TPB), are the glory days over? 
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Leader
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Leader
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By "Archie Legion" I assume you are refering to the trade paperback of the first few reboot issues. And by "Archie Legion" I get a sence that you did not care for it.
Our milage varies, I guess.
Me, I has HUGE into the reboot. At least at first. I tend to think that the Legion started seriously aiming for the ramp when the creators, fearing readers had guessed thier plans for Kinetix, substituted the Emerald Vi storyline. This led directly to the Team 20/ Team 30 split, when half the team spent half a decade trapped in the 20th century. This, I think, is where the reboot shark jump occurs.
Recently, DnA have been trying valiently to jump back. However, after four "epic" storylines in a row in which the Legion must battle a race bent stamping out individuality and creating a unified hive like mind, I have to wonder if they have more than one plot in them.
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Joined: Jul 2003
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Terrifyingly On-Topic.
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Terrifyingly On-Topic.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,146 |
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 106
Substitute
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No offense to DnA. From what I've seen they're doing a pretty good job. But it's just not the same as the "real" Legion. Guess I'm just a "fanboy".
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 33,081
Time Trapper
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Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 33,081 |
A series as long-lived as the Legion is gonna have multiple shark-jumps.
early ADV era-- good
Shooter ADV era-- good
Action run-- good (Win Mortimer doesn't get enough respect!!)
Cockrum/Grell-- good
post-Cockrum/Grell through the Earthwar-- good
We then have a period of shark-jumping in which the stories are mostly crap (one notable exception being the 'crazy-Brainy & Subs defeat the League of Super-Assassins' story.
Things look up when Broderick arrives and then Giffen is onboard. Good times!
Levitz Baxter series-- mostly good with occasional mini-shark jumping
TMK-- mostly good but with instances of utter crap (ala the waste of paper known as THE QUIET DARKNESS)
post-TMK: big shark-jump for LEGION ON THE RUN
early reboot to 'Emerald Vi' storyline-- good
Team 20-- a chorus line of acrobatic sharks fling through the air!
Legionnaires was actually the better title during the Team 20 crap. It didn't jump the shark until after the teams were re-united.
DnA-- good
Don't get me wrong... I have always loved the LEGION even during the what I consider crap times... I bought every issue and read every stry and even the crap times have good stories hidden therein.
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Deputy
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Deputy
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Originally posted by Thriftshop Debutante:
No. What TD said. 
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 16,863
Time Trapper
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Time Trapper
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Posts: 16,863 |
Question from the Square One: just what is "jump the shark"? I can see it's not good, something gone off, but where does the phrase come from?
Whatever it is, I don't think the current Legion stories are bad. I'm enjoying them; there are always drawbacks, criticisms - but overall, I'm pleased with the series and have a lot of hope for future developments.
That being said, there is a certain sameness to the threats they face - villain invades galaxy, takes over everybody's minds/bodies. The Fatal Five were an exception to that - just out to steal, destroy, get revenge and create general mayhem. Refreshing.
Holy Cats of Egypt!
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,168
Wanderer
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Wanderer
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Originally posted by Fat Cramer:
Question from the Square One: just what is "jump the shark"? I can see it's not good, something gone off, but where does the phrase come from?
The phrase was coined by a guy who started a website for people to discuss television shows. The term "jump the shark" comes from "Happy Days" and has come to mean that point in a series where things go wrong, the creative juices have run out or it simply "loses it". It sepcifically refers to the episode of "Happy Days" where Fonzie goes out to California and literally jumps over a shark on waterskis (Fonzie's on waterskis, not the shark).
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Joined: Jul 2003
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Time Trapper
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Time Trapper
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Thanks Drake. A shark on waterskis might have saved the show and given rise to a whole new phrase.
Holy Cats of Egypt!
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 6,078
Wanderer
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Wanderer
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Posts: 6,078 |
Originally posted by MLLASH:
We then have a period of shark-jumping in which the stories are mostly crap (one notable exception being the 'crazy-Brainy & Subs defeat the League of Super-Assassins' story.
Don't get me wrong... I have always loved the LEGION even during the what I consider crap times And to emphaisiz TD's "no," I found this time MLLASH refers to (affectionately) as "crap" as one in which much time was spent developing the personal relationships that fans rave for today. Conway wrote stories that took more than five minutes to read while delving into other aspects of writing: social conscious, politics, murder mystery... Janes and Chiapamonte (isn't that a Taco Bell special?) drew some of the most recognized versions of the Legionnaires. Plus you had those great sea-monkey advertisements.
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,194
#deleteFacebook
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#deleteFacebook
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 11,194 |
Originally posted by Portfolio Boy:
At least at first. I tend to think that the Legion started seriously aiming for the ramp when the creators, fearing readers had guessed thier plans for Kinetix, substituted the Emerald Vi storyline. What were the "plans for Kinetix"? Originally posted by MLLASH:
Team 20-- a chorus line of acrobatic sharks fling through the air! LOL
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 40,733
Trap Timer
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Trap Timer
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Posts: 40,733 |
Originally posted by Sanity or Madness?: Originally posted by Portfolio Boy:
[b]At least at first. I tend to think that the Legion started seriously aiming for the ramp when the creators, fearing readers had guessed thier plans for Kinetix, substituted the Emerald Vi storyline.
[/b]Kinetix was originally supposed to be possessed by the Emerald Eye and become the Emerald Empress. Fan speculation caught on to this matter as early as her first appearance, and so, to throw the fans a looop, the writers shifted and created a very convuluted and artificial way of making Vi the one possessed by the Eye.
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Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,190 |
I don't think there's a title out there that hasn't gone through its creative ups and downs. Some writers and artists hit the mark more often than others, but everyone has some ideas that may not have been executed in the best way. I enjoyed the reboot for the first couple of years, for example, but then I went through a period where I was less happy with the way things were going. DnA, while far from perfect, have restored my interest in the stories. Then again, everyone has different tastes, so what some people view as creative gold, others view as utter crap 
Some people are like slinkys: not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when you knock them down a flight of stairs
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Joined: Jul 2003
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Deputy
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Deputy
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Originally posted by Reep: Originally posted by Thriftshop Debutante:
[b] No.
[/b]reep is right
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Joined: Jul 2003
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Trap Timer
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Trap Timer
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Originally posted by Sonnie Boy: Originally posted by Reep: [b] Originally posted by Thriftshop Debutante:
[b] No. What TD said. [/b] Isn't that my line?
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,168
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,168 |
Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester:
Kinetix was originally supposed to be possessed by the Emerald Eye and become the Emerald Empress. Fan speculation caught on to this matter as early as her first appearance, and so, to throw the fans a looop, the writers shifted and created a very convuluted and artificial way of making Vi the one possessed by the Eye. "Fan speculation?" I may be misremembering, but wasn't Zoe looking for the Eye from her first appearance anyway? I don't think the fans had to really reach to guess that that was maybe where things were headed for Zoe.
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,666
Deputy
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Deputy
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Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Originally posted by Sonnie Boy: [b] Originally posted by Reep: [b] </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Thriftshop Debutante: <strong> No. What TD said. [/b] Isn't that my line? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">too good not to share, Eryk
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Joined: Jul 2003
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Trap Timer
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Trap Timer
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Uh... no. Her first appearance merely establishes a fascination with looking for object of power. She's trying to find something buried in a cave on Aleph before her try-out with the Leigon, IIRC.
The search for the Emerald Eye doesn't begin until after she loses her powers and then meets up with Mysa.
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Trap Timer
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Trap Timer
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Originally posted by Sonnie Boy: Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: [b] Originally posted by Sonnie Boy: [b] </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Reep: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Thriftshop Debutante: <strong> No. What TD said. [/b] Isn't that my line? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">too good not to share, Eryk </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What can I say, other than Sonnie Boy is right!
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,168
Wanderer
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Wanderer
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Posts: 9,168 |
Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester:
Uh... no. ...The search for the Emerald Eye doesn't begin until after she loses her powers and then meets up with Mysa. Ok, so even if it wasn't from the beginning, the fact is they had her looking for it, so why would they be surprised that fans guessed she might become the Emerald Empress?
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Trap Timer
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Originally posted by DrakeB3003: Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester:
[b] Uh... no. ...The search for the Emerald Eye doesn't begin until after she loses her powers and then meets up with Mysa. But the speculation began even before they sent her on the quest to look for it in the book. So apparently they decided to do the story anyway, but with the twist that Violet instead became the Empress. Honestly, though, I think the story would have been best served by simply going the original route, even if it were obvious that Zoe would be taken over by the Eye. A well-written story with little in the way of surprise twist would have been preferable to the mess we actually got.
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Deputy
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Deputy
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Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: Originally posted by Sonnie Boy: [b] Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: [b] </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Sonnie Boy: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Reep: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Thriftshop Debutante: <strong> No. What TD said. [/b] Isn't that my line? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">too good not to share, Eryk </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What can I say, other than Sonnie Boy is right! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Eryk's not wrong
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Deputy
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Deputy
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Originally posted by Sonnie Boy: Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: [b] Originally posted by Sonnie Boy: [b] </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Sonnie Boy: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Reep: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Thriftshop Debutante: <strong> No. What TD said. [/b] Isn't that my line? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">too good not to share, Eryk </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What can I say, other than Sonnie Boy is right! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Eryk's not wrong </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You couldn't all be more right even if you were me. I speak from experience. BTW, I dub this posting FX - The Quote Accordian. Available in finer music stores everywhere.
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Deputy
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Deputy
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Originally posted by Reep: Originally posted by Sonnie Boy: [b] Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: [b] </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Sonnie Boy: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Eryk Davis Ester: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Sonnie Boy: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Reep: <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Thriftshop Debutante: <strong> No. What TD said. [/b] Isn't that my line? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">too good not to share, Eryk </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What can I say, other than Sonnie Boy is right! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Eryk's not wrong </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You couldn't all be more right even if you were me. I speak from experience. BTW, I dub this posting FX - The Quote Accordian. Available in finer music stores everywhere. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I gotta find out how it's gonna look with one more quote! Will Civilization fall? Will Legion World go nova?
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No, it just pushes everything out the sides. Just like a real accordian! Has this topic jumped the shark???
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