Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! So, what's the Legion all about, anyway?

Okay, so supposedly one of the reasons that the X-Men are so successful is that they work on a simple metaphor. Being a mutant = being whatever minority/disenfranchised group you belong to. It's a comic about persecution, and the different responses to it.

So, since the Legion is destined to become DC's #1 book in the next year, it got me thinking about what the essence of the Legion is. So here's my first stab at it:

To me, the essence of the Legion is the notion of disparate young people from a variety of backgrounds all working together to make a difference. Its message is that however meagre your own ability to contribute may seem, that by working with others we can make a better future.

What do you think?

To me, the LEGION is all about belonging; everyone wants to be belong, even people with stupid powers.

For me it's mostly about the characters I like.

Secondary is the notion that these are a group of optimistic youths who believe they can make the universe a better place.

Diversity. As you say, EDE, even someone whose power is to eat inedible stuff or follow you anywhere can be a force for good on a galactic scale when they've got others to team up with. That's why the Legion isn't 99% Daxamites. Versatility is its core.

Other than that, yes, youth...kids taking the weight of the universe on their shoulders, and a universe which is either so broken or so perfect that it allows them to do so.

I completely agree with everyone on here that the essesnce of the Legion is about a diverse group of youngsters pulling together to show the world that they can make a difference no matter how great or small their powers may be....

... which is why DnA and PMS's runs on this title have been such a cock-up in my opinion and why Waid and Kitson's imminent 're-imagining' was inevitable.

By giving nearly every Legionnaire a power-up this team has totally moved away from what we all believe is its central conceit and just become a top-heavy military force. We all complain about the team just facing an endless stream of intergalactic dictators and their faceless hordes every issue but really, who else is powerful enough to take them on? Since Mark Waid left last time the following characters have all recieved significant power-boosts -

Invisible Kid
Shrinking Violet/LeVIathan
Apparition
Kinetix
Saturn Girl
Star Boy
Dreamer
Brainiac 5
Kid Quantum
Umbra
Andromeda
Spark
Live Wire
Gates
Sensor

Its become ridiculous. I mean we have Sensor, an illusionist, now strong enough to knock over tanks! Umbra, who should only be able to turn the lights out, is suddenly blasting things as easily as Wildfire! What happened to the diversity? And the unfortunate side-effect of all this is we're never going to see characters like Bouncing Boy or Matter-Eater Lad, or ANY of the other less strong/blasty powered type of characters (though no less interesting for it), ever find a place on this team! Don't believe me? When was the last time you saw Triad do anything? (And don't give me that *ridiculous* scene where she took down R'as al Ghul when M'Onel couldn't even stop him.) Triad has become impossible for current writers to include in stories because everyone else on the team has just been powered-up so far out of her league.

Where the writers went wrong was in trying to turn this book into the JLA. There, the central conceit is that they are the best of the best - every one of them *should* be incredibly powerful, be it strength (Superman), speed (Flash), wind (Red Tornado), sound (Black Canary), magic (Zatanna), cunning (Batman), etc. - and that's why stopping intergalactic invasions is their forte. But the Legion is not the JLA and destroying its diversity in an effort to turn it into it is why this book has been floundering for so long and why we're in the situation we're now in.

I mean the fact that this thread was even started in the first place is just proof how far the Legion has sunk. What's the Legion about anyway? Do we even remember? What was it that drew us to this team in the first place?

I think Mark Waid remembers and hopefully he'll help all of us to remember too.

The Legion is and always has been about ALTRUISM -- putting the welfare and safety of others above your own, no matter the cost.

It's about youthful IDEALISM and the noble (if impossible) purpose of making the universe a utopia.

Secondarily, it's about CELEBRITY, SEX and SPANDEX -- being the hottest and most famous guys and gals in the whole galaxy, and flaunting it to the max.

I hope none of these things ever change, regardless of the number of reboots.

Legion is about rekindling the notion of heroes in a time when heroes are all but legend. Its also about how, working together, a group of individuals can be greater than to sum of its parts.

I agree with you up to a point, Blacula. The diversity of powers in the Legion is what makes it great in my opinion. I'm so sick of new characters being created with nothing more orignal to boast than "super strength" (yawn). Super strong characters are a dime a dozen.

However, I've been in favor of some but not all of the power-ups. I think taking long-standing characters and increasing their power levels needs to be done carefully and judiciously. The power increases also need to be logical extensions of the powers they already have. The reason I think some of the weaker members have needed power boosts is because if they don't, they stand around being useless at best, or hostages at worst, and let all the mega powerful members do all the work.

Of the members you mentioned, I welcome the power boosts to Invisible Kid (being able to turn people and objects he touches invisible is not that much of an increase), Apparition (her ability to disrupt machinery has not been shown in a loooong time), Umbra, Star Boy, Dreamer, and Brainiac 5.

As far as these 6 are concerned, the power boosts are logical extensions of abilities they already had and were long overdue in my opinion. With their original powers, these members were rarely much use in a fight, though Brainy and Lyle's intellect made them useful in other ways.

As far as the others you mentioned: IMO, Spark, Live Wire, Shrinking Violet, Saturn Girl, and Sensor's powers were strong and versatile enough that they didn't need to be changed. Plus, Sensor's super strength is in no way a logical extension of her illusion power, nor is Live Wire's gaining Element Lad's power. Also, Saturn Girl has been made far too powerful and has gotten out of control on more than one occasion and she needs to be checked.

Kinetix and Kid Quantum's powers are both so vague and undefined that they can basically do anything at any time. And Kinetix's powers have been changed so many times, nobody knows what she does anymore. This just doesn't work. Good characters need limits set on their powers, otherwise they become too hard to write challenges for.

Andromeda, as one of the most powerful members, obviously did not need her powers boosted (I can't remember what her power increase was). What she needs is some panel time.

Gates has a power increase? What is it?


All that aside, what would be easier and more logical than upgrading half the Legion's power level, would be to simply pry open the door to that Legion arsenal we've heard so much about, but never see, and issue some sidearms to some of the weaker members. Sending the likes of Triad, Dreamer, Invisible Kid, Karate Kid, etc. into battle empty-handed against all the countless hordes of invaders they've been facing lately is just a recipe for a high body count.

She got ill-defined energy powers when she was shrunk in Dark Circle Rising.

Laurel G and Kinetix are two characters who definately need the rewind button hit on them - both have been horribly developed - Andromeda since she left the team again after the Conspiracy, both of them in the Anomoly, and Kinetix under DnA.

I think the creatives need to do more things like the Espionage Squad where various members are picked for their specialties on missions that don't always include "beating on the bad guy". That's where you get to see the diversity of the Legion in action. They should be able to attack on different fronts because of this instead of having things depend on a big fight scene at the climax where some members will always get short-changed.

I agree, Drake, but those types of stories don't seem to happen very often.

I think that at the core of the Legion's appeal would have to be its "Space Opera" quality.
It has always been the inevitable result of dealing with a group of this size. The early days had Lightning Lad sacrificing himself to save his fellow members. Which lead to the strong emotionality of his return and Proty's sacrifice. Romances, friendships, betrayals, secret alliances, weddings, births, deaths, power outages and power changes have all been part of the Legion's rich history. This is one of the reasons why it is always inevitably re-booted (re-imagined). All long-running soap operas paint themselves and their characters into a corner eventually. (See All My Children's Erica Kane's 8+ marriages). Eventually the amount of problems/issues that one character faces over the course of time begins to test the viewer's (reader's) credulity.

Maybe its because I'm British and was brought up on Kids stories like the Famous Five, Swallows and Amazons, and even things like the bash street kids, but to me one of the things that first attracted me was the thought that here was these amazing children doing things on their own without adult supervision. The fact that belonged to a club which by inference was secretive and exclusive also appealed. As did the fact that it was not just the handsome, strong, athletic type who got to join.

Later i fell in love with the space opera side of things, the altruism of these kids and the fact that they saved the day then (metaphorically) went home for cakes and lemonade.

Ermm Why am I still reading this lot as an adult? :rolleyes:

Easy one.
The Legion is about a huge club of exceptional people, by far not only physically, who can do ANYTHING when they are unite, that work together despite (and thanks to) all their differences, quickly growing into the only relevant group of super-heroes in the universe.

Whats the Legion about?

Brews, Babe's boobs and bootie.



And then of course you throw in all the things that add the visceral stimuli.

I thought that was what the LMBP was about?

It's easy to confuse the two!

What's the Legion REALLY about?

Punning.

Often hilarious, often horrendous, but always entertaining punning.

Having met some great kids from all over the world just a couple of weeks ago, I'd have to say what makes the Legion so great is the fact that these kids can work together despite their differences, and celebrate both the things they have in common and the things that make them unique. They are individuals who resonate with one another to create a sum greater than all of their parts but who do not lose their individuality in the process. At least, that's what the Legion is supposed to be about.

Beautifully worded, IB.

Young people (whrether as kids or young adults) from diverse backgrounds with diverse skills and powers working together and making a difference, on their own merits and leadership.

oh, yeah. set in the future.

I agree with all of you the Legion is about diversity working together to forge a bright better future...

BUT...that's secondary IMO.

The Legion FOR ME was always about a group of young people in the FUTURE. The Archie comparisons are well founded. When I was kid I cared more about the personal relationships and how cool the future was. The villain was secondary.

A group of young interesting people who get along (at times) in this cool bright future.

I think Young Heroes in Love is a series that best explains this. Young Future-Heroes in Love Sometimes is what the Legion is for me.

Jorge