Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Dream Girl question

Did Dream Girl ever use her powers properly?

Can you think of an example?

I liked what Levitz did with the character but I don't remember any examples of her making a prediction which helped the team.

She predicted the LSV would kill a Legionnaire - but didn't know which one.

Other than that I can't even remember any predictions she made!

Any suggestions?

Well, she predicted several Legionnaires would die in a space rocket explosion when she first tried to join the LSH. She was sort of right, then- but mostly wasn't.

Her short-term predictions were part of how she became one of the team's best hand-to-hand fighters.

She foresaw Invisible Kid I's death, didn't she?

She said she knew that she'd win an election, which she did, indeed, win.

I think she had an accurate prediction or two when she was stuck at Dream Tot height.

Reboot, she foresaw things that came to pass- mostly of a more personal nature.

I think you're right, though- a heroine with powers of her nature should've had heaps of more 'accurate' dreamings. Particularly ones that brought about or heavily influenced whatever story was being told at the time.

Though I like that several of the ones she did have came true through some unexpected twist, I'd also like to see a better accuracy percentage.

I guess it's all in the interpretation.

I've always wanted to see 'inside' her dreams-- from the POV of showing how her training and discipline affect/are affected by dream.

The revelation that she's connected to The Dreaming (as in SANDMAN/Morpheus's realm) should make her more of a 'player'.

Or else sentence her to the fate of Lyta and Hector Hall. Grumble, groan and sigh.

Reboot Dreamer was shown to be very effective in planet wide battle on Xanthu in Legion Worlds. This was after her Khund training. Her powers helped to plan for upcoming Robotica strikes and she predicted to death of the Khund commander who was an ally in the battle.

She predicted the attack of Darksied in the Dream Crime story. She thought the vision was implanted by Universo but it just turned out to be early. Darksied showed himself in Foundations and she realized that her earlier vision was accurate.

Threeboot Dream Girl was shown to use her powers effectively in hand to hand combat in issue #2. She kind of predicted her own death by failing to see anything at all in the future.

Preboot, I seem to recall her predicting Wildfire's death in one of his early episodes of releasing all of his energy from his containment suit. She accurately saw the suit being destroyed but just didn't realize he could reform in a new suit so easily.

She predicted Star Boy's ouster from the team and made arrangements for him to join the subs.

In Great Darkness, she predicted that the baby would somehow save the day even though she didn't know how.

A major problem with Nura has been how her powers were originally perceived ~ she never seemed to be able to actually change what happened by her visions.
She either facilitated their happening, willingly or no, OR she miss interpreted the vision and it happened anyway.

It really wasn't until the reboot that we saw some of the drawbacks early on (sometimes not being in phase with the time she was actually in, for example) and then some of the advantages later on when she became combat trained and focused on military battles, etc..
Then, her powers were shown to actually effect the outcomes of events.

She may have shown some of that preboot, but it wasn't usually presented that way. Her leadership seemed to just get people in the right place at the right time to fulfill her visions.

3boot Nura wasn't as interesting to me as reboot Nura but I certainly liked her better than preboot.

I would rather she became some sort of Dreaming realm denizen/tragedy then become the sexual psycophant that she became pre-Zero Hour.

She did provide some guidance (or misguidance, in a few cases) to the Legion. As a character, she was used to set up the story: a legionnaire will die! etc., then you see everybody running around trying to prevent it.

You've got to wonder, looking back, why there weren't more cases of her having a bigger impact on things. She was given added attributes of being a great scientist, when she applied herself, and having great leadership qualities to justify her existence, along with being a siren and vamp for comedic effect. That doesn't say much for her essential power of prophecy.

The 3boot brought seriously into question whether her dreams were infallible or not, and to what extent the future she saw could be changed through direct action. I don't think that was ever a point of discussion in the preboot/reboot. She was put on a par with Brainiac 5's calculations of probabilities. I think it was the best use of the character's power of all the versions.

Edit out.

Really?

I thought that her precognative abilities were used much better in the reboot Legion, where she appeared in stories much more than in 3boot, I thought.

I also thought that the growth of her powers to the point that she couldn't really sleep anymore in the reboot was the beginning of a story that might have become very interesting and possibly life changing or tragic.

I think it certainly would have become a much better vehicle for exploring her and her powers, than killing her turned out to be.

That was done so poorly that it became embarrassing, imo. [/qb][/QUOTE]

She saved Karate Kid's life waaaay back in a backup Legion story in Superboy, where her premonition led her to be with Val before he succumbed to an internal wound (the pain of which was blotted out by Karate Kid's intensive martial arts training).

PS - This was the famous "lump in the bed next to Nura" story!

Yeah, I think reboot Nura's power use was the best of the versions, so far. The current Dream Girl, with her connection to The Dreaming (and, obliquely, to the 21st century Sandman) has the potential to be even more interesting.

I think there was way more to preboot Dreamy 'sexual psychophant', though. That's a tad insulting, really. Sorry.

I liked the Primeverse Naltor and its Dream Commandos and I liked that Nura's sass, but I just didn't see enough of her for an impression to really stick.

Now the Primeverse character who really had the best depiction of her powers 'ever' was Princess Projectra. Better than Sensor Girl, Snake or hand-waving, disease-catching preboot Jeckie.

In fact, I hope Johns or whoever writes her reads that last handful of Shooter issues for a good grounding in how illusory powers can be written effectively.

Her *character* now, that's a different story.

Yes, I remember the 'lump' story.
It's too bad that THAT is what the story is remembered for, rather than that she actually saved Val.

I'm sorry if I was insulting, ML, but I WAS refering to her preZero Hour 'years' as the High Seer of Naltor and her many muscular bodyguards that we were lead to believe were also her lovers.
I have an image in my mind, true or not, of her hanging on them.

I think that the insult was in writing her and showing her, in such a way.

She did get to use her powers more, and more effectively, in the postboot. There was also the project to have her work with the Titanian communications network for an early warning system, which didn't get developed.

However, personally, I thought the set-up for her powers in the 3boot had great potential. That potential was totally destroyed by her death, when her powers where reduced to a supplemental application in Brainiac 5's mind. It was the notion of mutability which I found so engaging. She could see the future, but it wasn't necessarily fixed; it could be changed through action. (At least, that seemed to be what Waid was suggesting, although it wasn't clear whether she believed that herself, which was even more interesting.) Some of our contemporary seers take this approach: they see possible futures, but we have the power to change the outcome.

Suppose she had not directed Brainy to go rescue Invisible Kid, but had kept him with her. His forcefield could have protected both of them from that falling debris, or they could have gone somewhere else to avoid it - so she might have lived, and Invisible Kid might have died. Or not, depending on how serious his injury was, or what else would happen to him. Was it fatalism or heroism that determined her choice? I'm so sorry that her 3boot powers never got to be explored and developed.

Much as as I enjoyed the 5YL stories, Nura Nal's characterization was a disappointment. The emphasis was on her behavior, which was like a cross between Mae West and an aging Madam, not much focus on her powers - even though she seemed to be a key player in Naltor's economy.

Is this it?

It's a bit of a poor show for Nura!

Levitz turned her into a great character but I hadn't realised she hardly ever used her powers.

So; she made a vague prediction about the LSV, one about Darkseid, one about Karate Kid and...anything else?

It looks like she never used her powers at all in the Baxter era Levitz run! Which is crazy! It looks like the White Witch used her powers more, and no one even seemed to understand what those involved...

I can think of some smaller uses of her power-- like on Ventura when we first met the 'new' Shrinking Violet.

Didn't she predict something dealing with Omen (I haven't reread that story in years!)

According to Star Boy, she predicted that she'd win the election. Which we know she did. I always expected something to come of that... what else might she have seen in that vision that persuaded her to run?

You're right, though. There should be a big story hinged on her visions. I thought she and they would play a part in LO3W, as in she'd swoop in at just the right moment with just the right combination of Legionnaires to save the day. Didn't happen.

Her appearances under Levitz usually consisted of her battle prowess, sometimes said to be influenced by short-sight prophecy and scenes dealing with leadership. Punctuated by broken nails, hair trauma and agonizing over moisturization.

Like Sketch Lad, who thinks that the Swan version of Nura was the most beautiful (I agree), I think that the early version of Dream Girl was the least cliched and the most interesting (as a person, not necessarily as a superhero.)

In my Archive stories, she doesn't worry about her hair or nails, or the boys liking her.

She joined the Legion to save people that she thought would die, then leaves.
She falls for Star Boy, who was at the time, one of the least handsome and interesting of the male Legionnaires.
She encourages him at his trial.
Then, they both put on metal amour and helmets to join the Legion and save her sister, the Hag.

She was strong as a person, smart, determined, loving and completely about other people.
She actually hid her face and body for an extended period of time.
I actually LIKED her, as a kid and now, as an adult.

Then she became a 'beautiful girl joke'.
I never liked her again until the reboot.
3boot killed what might have been an interesting version.

I just know I have no desire to see the preboot, version of her.

I totally expected that, too. It would have made for a way to placate the Prime fans who wanted to see a Legion bloodbath, and yet not utterly traumatize us Legion fans for the Nuras, Imras, Projectras and Brainy's to coordinate a massive illusory fake-out, where the Dreamys would anticipate where Prime was headed, the Imras would make sure no one *real* was in the line of fire, and the Projectras would put illusionary Legionnaires there for Prime to kill and maim to his shriveled black hearts content.

The plan itself would be revealed only when it fell apart, but we'd be 'treated' to an issue of Prime seemingly effortlessly slaughtering various Legionnaires, only to find out that he was trapped in a massive mind-game, to keep him busy while the *rest* of the Legions schooled his allies. Only a last ditch telepathic blast from Saturn Queen would clear the cobwebs and reveal his allies all laying around, beaten, while he was 'killing' illusions.

Due to his speed, it would absolutely require Nura to predict his actions before they happened, and Imra to coordinate to get the real flesh and blood Legionnaires out of the path of devastatation he'd be leaving behind.

With three Dreamys, three Imras and three Jeckies, it would have had plenty of redundancy, as well, allowing them to also participate in dealing with the other super-villains, from time to time.

Instead, the vast majority of Legionnaires really didn't really accomplish much of anything during the Lo3W battles, and members with less visible powers, such as Nura, just floated around for the most part, which is a terrible waste of their abilities.

IIRC Star Boy only hypothesized that Dream Girl would not have run unless she saw herself being elected. We really don't know if she did have a vision of being Leader.

I think the Animated series did a good job with her power in the episode that featured her.

bummer. me either. I love dream girl!

btw i think this:
"Threeboot Dream Girl was shown to use her powers effectively in hand to hand combat in issue #2."

was really cool. if a minor use of her power. (she kicks butt by predicting her opponents moves right)

oh well Dream Girl don't ned no powers...she's super smart..and crafty...and a ninja...

she can outsmart everyone, does that count as a super power? She should kick out Brainy and say " I'm the smartest foo' "

She also predicted the death of Mon-El in the Eltro Gand story. This of course set off the obligatory scamble by the Legion, Daxam and everyone else to find a way to protect Lar only to have it all messed up by Eltro's kidnapping and substituting of Lar.

Which of course set up that horrible plot point of Eltro and Lar both inhabiting Lar's psyche later on.

(snip)

Yes. And I loved the bit where she's fighting Brainiac 5 while dressed in armor, even if it's sexxxeee peek-a-boo armor. Just makes me all the sadder at how they marginalized the female characters so thoroughly in S2, when there was no need to do so other than [bleeping] sexist marketers and their antiquated "boys rule" view of the universe. Grrr...

"IIRC Star Boy only hypothesized that Dream Girl would not have run unless she saw herself being elected. We really don't know if she did have a vision of being Leader."


Actually she did say she would win the election in LSH 291 (the same issue that reintroduced the white witch when darkseid sent the oan clone after her). She said she was going to run for leader and Wildfire said something saracstic about Krypto the Superdog running for leader and she said "Now Wildfire is that anyway to talk to your next leader...excuse me i feel i have another vision coming on." and went pale after seeing her sister attacked by the servants of darkness. Now since she said Another Vision she must have had the vision of her seeing herself winning.

Oh and outside of the vamp stuff we did know there was a deeper side of Dreamy thru her concern of KK when she saw him die. The Way Saturn Girl saw her during the Universo trap. And Probably she was using her Vision powers when she changlleged Hagga (on Orando) when she said she would blot out the Sun. So either she was crafty in trying ot get shady on board with the use of her powers or she also foresaw it as well. (and i love Pre-Boot Dreamy the best...she had a lot of personality.

And Also Post-Boot Dreamer had visions of the tear in space that caused part of the Legion to be lost as well.

and by liking her personality I'm not talking about the characterization she was given during the 5 year gap period. There's no way the Nura who was so together about her looks would have ever allowed herself to get fat.

None of that is proof positive that she had a vision of being elected Leader or of being Leader. It could just be shrewd politicing to say such a thing and let others jump to the conclusion that she had a vision about herself being Leader. "Gee, if Dream Girl saw herself getting elected, I might as well vote for her." It is definitely a "did she or didn't she" moment.

I don't feel Nura's ever been written to her fullest potential. If I were writing her, she would be a villain's number one priority to take out of the picture.

Legion leaders should be conferring with her as much as possible on various situations.

Absolutely. It's alternately fascinating and a little bit appalling that Waid/Kitson gave us the best Nura, and then took her away. Those bastards!

Nura, played right, should be as vital to Legion mission planning as Imra or Brainy. Whoever the current leader is should be stressing how vital it is that she hang back at the headquarters and coordinate the teams in the field, only to have her pull a Picard, flip them a delicately-frosted finger and go on the mission team anyway, since she's nobody's stay-at-home coordinator! She should also be *better than Brainy* at adapting to new situations in the field, and this should be recognized and accepted as fact by team leads, who rely on Brainy for long-term strategic 'build us a whachamawhoozit to fix the quantum whateverit was' while Nura is the one who is going to come up with the plan to keep everyone alive until Brainy is done monkeying with his wrench.

The problem with those scenerios, guys, is that until the last part of the reboot, Nura was never shown to have much control over what she saw or how long in the future whateveritwas was.

And her visions were usually vague and came in small, disconnected pieces.
Also, she had to be sleeping, which made using her gifts for fighting impossible.

Her interpretations were often way off the mark, too, including her introductory story, where she thought Legionnaires died and they were really only robots or androids.

Levitz updated her powers, eliminating some of the restrictions, but DnA were the ones to bring her powers into sharper focus, followed by Waid/Kitson building on their ideas of combat prowess.

Everyone's powers have been used better over the years, I think, except maybe for Jan's very limited powers in Universe Prime (but maybe that was an over reaction to his becoming an evil godlike figure in Lost,) but Nura's were especially upgraded, perhaps the most successfully.
Her's and Tasmia's as Umbra.

I hope when Levitz reads what's happened over the years in the various versions of the Legions, he'll find and keep some of the wonderful things that have been done with the different Legionnaires.