Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! To Superboy or...

NOT to Superboy?


The recurring debate about the big red "S".
Is Superboy really central to the Legion or not? Does the book fare better with the connection or do they make a stronger statement without "Superman when he was a boy"? Then there's the sales question, does the presence of Supes make the book jump off the shelves or does the it make no difference at all to the fans?
New readers vs. old readers. That one seems to always follow along too, there seems to be a core of approximately 25000 strong that spikes occasionally with some big event but always settles back down to the core number after a while.

With all due respect to a beloved and very important super-hero, in my opinion, Superman can't be a supporting character. It's difficult for him to be part of an ensemble cast. He's a star and as such, when he's around, the rest of the Legion suffers. I don't mind a connection, but I'd rather he not be the focus of the series. There are too many great characters for any one to be the "star".

That's my take on it too. I think he works well when he makes an appearance for special events and cameos but takes away when he's used as the backbone of the book. Just enough of an excuse to use him on the cover to attract the casual readers ($ka-ching$) but let the focus be on the team. I can think of dozens of examples where S-Boy is prominent on the cover but really does little to nothing in the interior. I know that's a flimsy excuse but after all if it doesn't show at least a little profit it won't get published and no Legion makes YK no happy!

My opinion has always been that the Legion was originally a spin-off from Superman/boy and that connection should always remain. It is true that Superman (and other Kryptonian powered characters) tend to dominate the other Legionnaire characters when they are around, which is why I would like to see a Superboy or Supergirl appearance only on occasion in a regular Legion title - either for ceremonies or an uber-badguy showdown.

I really enjoyed the recent Adult Legion story in Action was because its focus was on the relationship of the Legion with Superman, and how Superman is important to the 31st century and was considered an important leader to the Legion even without his powers thru most of the story.

Superman is too big for the Legion. He's moved past that, and has 'a League of his own,' so to speak.

In their own way, the Legion has also grown beyond being 'Superman's future pals' as well, and a Legion sans Superman should be just as viable as a Nightwing/Robin/Teen Titans without Batman.

The *connection* should remain. Getting rid of it was a huge mistake, IMO, and did no favors to the Legion *or* to Superman.

One thing that bugs me is that time travel never seems to actually be used right.

It's entirely feasible for the Legion to have *Superboy* show up from time to time. It doesn't matter if he's all growed up in the 21st century, just like it doesn't matter if he's left earth and unavailable in the 23rd century. It's time travel! There's no reason at all that the Legion has to call SuperMAN on the time-comm when they can just dial back a few years and talk to SuperBOY.

It's not like they are parallel universes, stuck in matching time-synch. It's the past. Go back *further* and get the younger person who *is* a Legionnaire, not the grown-up who's a member of the Justice League.

It's due to the litigation with the Siegels IMO.

This is the best balance right here...

Although I would argue that when you only bring him in for special occasions, it becomes a big event for him to be there, possibly even overshadowing the rest of the story.

I don't think you want it to be a big event when he is there, as that does exactly what Legion fans worried about him doing...furthermore, it's not like he's really a member when you do that.


Levitz had this balance working perfectly, not just with Superboy, but Supergirl as well right before the Crisis on Infinite Earths and then it was ruined.


Levitz was having them both show up a few times per year, sometimes he just threw them in there for a cameo...and sometimes they did more. Just like every other character in the book. And it worked perfectly. It worked so well that most Legion fans don't even remember that he was doing it. Levitz and Giffen featured the Supercousins as regular Legionaires when this book broke out in the early 80's, even though Supergirl was still lisated as retired...and the only reason Levitz stopped doing it was because of the Crisis.


That is the best balance IMO, you treat them just like you would any other Legionaires.

Oh and I personally am not real crazy about SuperMAN and the Legion. It's not the same as Superboy and the young Legion, and it never was...not even when they tried to do it in the Silver Age...it's just not the same appeal.

And it doesn't really make much sense for Superman to be a member of the adult Legion because he has so many other commitments...so I don't really have much desire to see Superman and the Legion in a contemporary monthly.


IF they are going to do Superman Legion I'd much prefer it be past tales, like a classified or something with Superboy and the young Legion, chronicling untold tales. A companion title to a regular Legion title. I think that book would still serve as a gateweay book plus it's a more fun era of the Legion.


It's just not the same with Superman as it is with Superboy...Superman kind of already has all the answers, Superboy does not.

Once a Legionnaire,always a Legionnaire I say.
Kal-el was there from the beginning,and the Legion are his oldest friends.

Do I want him in every issue,No.

But the bonds he shares with Garth,Imra,Rokk,Mon-el and the rest of the Legion should last a lifetime.

I remember before they removed Kal-el from the Legion's continuity,The Legion was the elite team book at DC,until The New Teen Titans by Wolfman and Perez came along,they were everywhere,Specials,Tabloids,Digests,Calenders,Slurpee Cups,Ads,Wrapping Paper and Oversized Issues you name it and the Legion got it,and as Paul Levitz said they were the top selling team book of the 1960's DC or Marvel.

I think Kal-el had something to do with that fact.

A quick look at the polls show that so we all seem to agree pretty much with that. The Super family is a great attraction but few readers want them to absolutely dominate the book. What's surprised me is that there's still some Super Pets love out there in Legion Land, possibly because of the late lamented Krypto cartoon?

I don't think anybody has ever wanted Superboy to dominate the book, not even the biggest Superman fans...if that's what people want, there's no reason to even have the Legion in it. It's never been what I wanted...

But there's is a long way between not dominating the book and not appearing at all, or being completely eradicated from the Legion's history.

Thing is...Superboy is the one character in the book that doesn't need to be fleshed out or have a spotlight put on him...or have stories written around him, everybody already knows him...he's got the S Shield and that's enough.


But there's absolutely no doubt that to the casual fan he legitimizes a book set in a future period, the way few characters can. He's the one character everybody knows the first time they pick this book up...and it helps IMO.

Yeah, people are looking forward to Krypto and The Legion of Super-Heroes, featuring the Super-Pets!

Personally I'm a little disappointed at the Krypto vote...

Just remember, if Superboy Prime had had a Krypto he might not have turend out the way he's turned out....remember that as you underestimate the value of the dog of steel.

I voted for the super pets because I figured nobody else would. But really I would only like to see them occasionally and as real pets, not talking animals. They could still be physically super, they'd just act like animals do.

I like the connection, but as something that's in their past. The rare crossover like "Legion of Three Worlds" is cool, but I don't need to read a monthly where Superman or Superboy's on the team.

I agree that Superman has his own Justice League in his own time period, but there is no reason why he couldn't or wouldn't remain in some kind of contact with his Legionnaire friends throughout the years.

It makes sense to me that a youthful teen Legion would call upon teenage Superboy or Supergirl when needed thru time, and an adult legion would call upon an adult Superman or Superwoman. It would be quirky-weird to have a disparate age difference between the two (the John Byrne Man of Steel reboot comes to mind where Superman meets four teenage Legionnaires).

You make me think of an interesting point concerning these LSH stories, they were actively trying NOT to involve Superman. KK and Uni were hiding information from him and (as I recall) actively avoiding him. In Action the Legionnaires chewed out B-5 for contacting him after they'd all agreed NOT to drag him into the fight for his legacy.
This is a stark contrast to the glory days of Adventure or Superboy and the Legion of Super Heroes when they'd call on Clark to make a trip to Ye Old Ice Cream Shoppe or just to play a 'gotcha!' practical joke. Ma Kent must make a helluva pancake for teens to travel a thousand years back in time just to have breakfast.

I sometimes wish it were possible to do a Legion series where Superboy was there, but no more important than any other Legionnaire. And this was often true in pre-Crisis stories. It couldn't be maintained, though. The way I'd like to do it is to avoid showing the 20th century as much as possible in the Legion title. Superboy/Superman's present-era adventures are for his own title.

You may have seen me speak out in favor of the post-Superboy-connection Legions before. I still will speak for them, because they have many good ideas. I also see the risk of tying the Legion too closely to Superboy/Superman - or any other present-day character. It's a series not entirely about Earth, and it's in the far future.

Still, I like the idea of temporal commuter members. In an ideal world, Superboy would be a Legionnaire. Superman wouldn't be. The older Legion would therefore be free of active connection except as history.

This ideal world, though, would require:

- Writers able to restrain their use of Superboy. Legion stories should stem from the 30th century, not our time.

- Rules on time travel. The pre-Crisis universe had a strict predestination rule. I never liked time travel stories that follow that rule, but it seems the most obvious way to explain why the Legion would allow members from other times. Other times have to be like other places... and that's the boring kind of time travel. I'm not sure how to resolve this.

- The knowledge that presnt-day Superman continuity will be stable for a long time. In broader terms, to have a Legion tied strongly to the present, the present must be clearly defined and not subject to continuous chronology alteration.

Every little change of continuity in the present will hurt the future. And that applies to the Legion. Are we relying too much on the Supers, again?

Actually, have the Legion ever made a good profit without an appearance of a Super (boy/girl/man/pet)?

Where Superboy is less experienced and we get to look at the future through his Smallville eyes. It was the clubhouse days, when he went to the future to hang out with friends, have adventures, save the galaxy. The simple days. I miss those.

I'm also a big proponent of limiting the story place to the future, only because DC so often screws it up when they do otherwise. Wouldn't give up stories where Legion comes to the present for some home cooking at the Kents, not for anything. Imagining how Heroes from the future would view some of our more positives.

John's Legion stories, I enjoyed them but they drug out a bit for me and missed the mark by his own excellence, or Franks. The opening and closing sequence when the three founders greet Clark then leave him at the tree, those were stories I wanted to see.

I miss THAT Legion a lot, when the days are dark.

I'm a HUGE Legion fan where I'm not really a Supes fan...I really only like him for his work with the Legion.

But I do know that his connection has to be made aware of, not a lot, but every once in a while, if the story agrees with his presence, then he should be involved. He's a Legionnaire before he's a Leaguer, just like Flash and Red Arrow and Nightwing are Titans, before anything else...

And I'd just like to say I want to see more Krypto! He's great, and underused, though I know when used too much it would get too hokey...but what can I say?

I enjoy the old Superboy and Legion of Super Heroes, but as it was already mentioned, SuperMAN and the Legion takes away just too much.