Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Official LSH 3 Worlds Thread #5 out (FINALLY!! - spoilers)

i wasn't implying anyone in particular thanks for answering, though!


do they really say these things everywhere on the net? please don't be offended but i only read this kind of comments here on this board.
i could have missed something, sure! but i don't think i did, cause i believe that the legion isn't deprotagonized at all in L3W.

why do you say it's deprotagonized? is it because of that only scene which focused on the green lanterns at the beginning of issue 3? or is it because of the kid flash and superboy stuff? but how much time did bart and kon have on stage? very little.

i agree that the resurrections of those dead teen titans look a little bit too much "out of context" here, even if they do have sense storywise given what happened in that ugly "infinite crisis" miniseries.


with that i agree. but we all have to admit that right now the legion is what joe quesada would call a "radioactive franchise". DC burned it with decades of bad editorial choices that lead to multiple reboots and headache inducing retcons.

i'd really want to see an all-legion book out there every given month, if not more often. but i'm willing to wait for DC to build again some demand around the legion. i hope for DC to finally do it right. they did it with green lantern and JSA, and they were both under the johns cure. so right now i'm optimist. it could take some time, but better late than never, isn't it?

could you please make an exemple of mischaracterization, or link me an older post where you already did one? thanks

I read LO3W 4 and it was great.

I thought the pacing might suffer given the enormity of the task Johns has taken on but it hasn't.

I didn't expect the Conner Kent ressurection and it was handled well. The setup for SBP's possible redemption is something I am looking forward to.

I don't know if Johns can pull it off but I can't wait to see him try.

To Perez. he is simply the best artist in the game now. Every panel mattered and he gets better with each issue.

I haven't picked up Lo3W #4 and have been debating just waiting for the trade. I was growing increasingly disenchanted with it in #3 for some of the same reasons that I eventually was disappointed by Lightning Saga and Superman and the Legion. It seems like the three arcs have been devised as follows:

1) Lightning Saga. Reintroduce the pre-boot Legion as supporting characters in JLA/JSA. The characters themselves were just pretty cryptic versions of pre-boot Legionnaires and little personality came through.

2) Superman and the Legion. Develop the relationship between Superman and the pre-boot Legion. Again, other than angry LL and the strange Gim/Yera/Dirk scene, very little characterization of the Legion occurred. In the final book, the Legion seemed mostly to be supporting characters.

Still, despite my disappointments about the little characterization and my concern that those books might be giving a false impression of the viability of a pre-boot Legion book (especially when the threeboot was cancelled in favor of whatever comes out of Lo3W), I still had hope that those two arcs had piqued enough interest that a Legion with strong connections to Superman could be the lead in the Lo3W miniseries, and that could further help fix continuity and lead into a new book. So much for that. The first issue was full of "ooh, look at that, they included _____" moments, but we now have spent three issues trying to tie the Legion to the Green Lanterns, Flash, and Teen Titans. So my question is, when this is done, are any new readers going to be attracted to a Legion book? Or will we be stuck with the Legion playing second-fiddle to Conner (or Conner and Bart)? That failed miserably when Supergirl was injected into the Threeboot.

It seems like DC is missing a huge opportunity. People bought issue 1 because they were curious about the Legion after what they saw in the first two arcs. Those readers did not come to the miniseries because they expected to see Sodam Yat, Conner Kent, or Bart Allen. DC had the perfect chance to introduce readers to the Legion's mythology and history, and provide enough compelling characterizations that readers would want to read more about the Legionnaires. Now, most long-time Legion fans feel the Legion has been slighted in its own book while most of the excitement is about Conner and Bart. How does that help DC reintroduce the Legion as a viable property?

Although there are Legionnaires from the reboot and threeboot that I'd like to know where they are.

Reboot: Chuck Taine (he was there at the end of the Titans/Legion Special, after all), Cub (not a Legionnaire, admittedly, but I'd like to know where he is)
Threeboot: Gazelle, Dream Boy, Dream Girl

I think WILDFIRE being the one to revive Connor wasn't really important. It was more the fact that Dawny's path lead to him when she had previously been distant towards him. I think it's one of those "he was the one chosen because he was the one who did it/ it has to happen the way it happened" kinda things.

That does make sense Drake.

Oh yes, and let's not forget Thunder. Or Inferno.

Except that we're pretty sure we know where Thunder and Inferno are. More or less. I certainly wasn't expecting to see either one in this series.

BTW whatever happened to that Sungirl? Deborah Morgna. You think Johns would've bothered to shed some light on her, I guess. I dunno. My mind's somewhere else at the moment.

Ok. I just re-read it and I've got to say I liked issue 4. There was a lot that happened, but somehow it didn't feel as frantic or as rushed as the previous 3. That's the problem I have with "Crises," they throw so many characters in that it feels too busy, but somehow this one was okay.

The more I read of Prime the more I just want him to go away and never, ever come back. He's mean enough to be a classic villain, but he's too childish, at least in this arc, resorting to name calling, stammering, and such. Take the Joker for instance. He is truly a diabolical, unbalanced, psychopath, but you can't wait to see what he's gonna do next. Prime? No. Just go away. You're annoying.

I went back and re-read The Lightning Saga. (Yes, I know.) I was wondering if somehow Dream Girl Got left behind, but no, she was supposed to have gone back to the future with the rest of the team. I really wonder how all of these loose ends are going to be tied up, given that this issue was on 30 pages of actual Legions story, and billed as 40, and Issue 5 is listed as 32 pages and will likely be 22 of story?

It was good to see Sun Boy back in action. Thank God he didn't light up and set himself uncontrollably ablaze due to whatever alcohol-like beverage he was drowning his sorrows in. I like the way Polar Boy is written. Still ever the optimist, tough, and still the fanboy. "That was so awesome. 'What he said'" So someone wrote in the wrong name to call Sun Boy, meh.

This I believe. Time is fluid in Comicsland. Next time, (and there will be a next time) the Time Trapper may be Ambush Bug. They never truly defeat him/her/it.

All in all, a good issue. I still want to know where Chameleon Boy is. He's got to be a spy somewhere.

Agreed that Chuck should be there but I guess it depends on whether the spell that brought them was specific to people known to Brainy (this would explain Dream Boy and Gazelle not being there as well). So Chuck could be floating in limbo by himself until the end of time.... when he adopts the identity of the Time Trapper to seek revenge on the Legion that left him there.


Cub like everyone else from Earth-247 (or to be more accurate, Universe 247) was destroyed in Infinite Crisis. So their Tenzil, RJB etc are long gone.

3B Dream Girl should be in Lo3W.

I have a hard time choking that one down. It seems like a stupid and unnecessary idea. And in any case I suspect Cub could survive the death of a universe.

This is farfetched, but I wonder if Wildfire turning out to be Red Tornado (which makes NO sense to me) has something to do with him being the one to revive Conner.

I thought the same thing, Jim, but I can't imagine WHY that would be the case (aside from Red Tornado going through lots of resurrections?)

My review is up, for those who haven't seen it yet. Warning: it's a long one, so pack a lunch.

Okay... several people have pointed out that Johns has been depicting Saturn Girl as the mediator between Lightning Lad and Cosmic Boy; Johns said as much himself. But that wasn't usually Saturn Girl's purpose. All three Saturn Girls have been dominating types, and as likely to cause trouble as solve it.

Blok's "Yeah." There are few characters you can get wrong with one word. This error suggests something truly disturbing: Johns doesn't know his character, so he uses the stereotype of guys made of rock.

Threeboot Brainiac 5 wasn't really so much against adults; that wasn't the core of it for most of them.

This last suggests Johns is taking Waid's run at face value, just as he's inclined to base characterization on powers. How many words can Dawnstar go without saying "path" or "way" or "direction" or... ?

Um, no, really, I've been trying soooooooooo hard to forget Thunder.

Do you all a favor and read it. Best review so far.

Matthew, how is the new Adventure cover an homage to Adv. 300? I'm not seeing it.

Nice review Matthew E. I couldn't agree with you more on most points. Personally, I think you may be being a little too generous. This story is a mess and there seems to be way to many bits and flashes and green lanterns and incompatible villains crammed together. Along with a completely unconvincing Superboy "Prime" as theprimary adversary. Rather than anticipating the final chapter, I feel more like I can't wait until this mess is over and we can all move on. I really don't give a rats ass who gets killed at this point, I just want to read a good story and while this one may be somewhat entertaining at points, it is not particularly good.

OK I've finally re-read this issue but I still can't decide whether I liked it or not. I'll list the goods and bads and then see which comes out on top.

Goods

* George Perez's art is always spectacular (even if it was somewhat less spectacular here than in previous issues. I think he is rushing to catch up on the schedule and it is starting to show.).

* Superboy-Prime. I have actually come to really like him as a raging-fanboy villain. Nobody is more surprised by this than I.

* The "death" of Terraform-Kinetix. Anyone who is upset at Geoff Johns for this mercy killing should remember that it was Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning who actually killed off everything that was fun and interesting about Zoe Saugin many years ago when they turned her into that zombified monstrosity.

* The mention of 'Leviathan'. Anyone who knows me knows that Reboot Gim is my favourite Legionnaire of any era so to see Zoe (and Geoff Johns) remember (and possibly even see) him at her last moment was a very sweet and appreciated touch.

* The mention of 'LeViathan'. If, as some people on here have suggested, that it was actually Salu that Zoe was seeing at the end there then I think that that is definitely Geoff Johns' way of destroying the Terraform aspect of Kinetix and bringing back her original, fun-loving personality next issue. Either way, it's win/win for me.

* The death of Element Lad. My hatred of the Threeboot is so great that I hope to see many more of his teammates join him on Shanghalla before this is all over.

* The Kryptonian Chrysalis. Having recently re-read a bunch of Superman issues from that whole death/resurrection era it was nice to see that little piece of continuity remembered.

* It was also nice to see Sun Boy rejoin the fight and it's always great to see Polar Boy get a heroic moment.

* Geoff Johns always remembers to include a bunch of small but appreciated (by me) elements into his comics and it was no different here - the profile box for Star BOY, Element Lad's mourning of Sun Boy, the hint about Mordru facing Clark when he was younger (obviously to be seen in his new 'Secret Origin' book), Mysa comforting Blok, Time Trapper's big hand grabbing characters (a fab comic staple), the flashback to the 'Legion Babies' and 'Conspiracy' storylines, Marella Tao's news report, etc. It's the little things that often make or break a story for me.

Bads

* The writing was just not very good this issue. I have become somewhat of a fan of Geoff Johns but this was one of his weakest ever scripts IMO. 2 pages of Star BOY doing his now very tiresome 'talk like a child' act, what felt like 10 pages of characters explaining things to each other for the readers' benefit and then an extended and uninteresting (to me) face-off at the North Pole. Eh.

* His name is Star BOY! I don't mind him being called Starman by his JSA teammates in the 21st Century since that's their frame of reference but to all his friends in the 31st he should still be Star BOY. How weird is it going to be having a bunch of Boys and Kids and Lads and Lasses hanging out and then one MAN tagging along. I told you it was the little things that make or break a comic for me. This is one 'little thing' that kept throwing me out of the issue!

* The way Geoff Johns writes Bart Allen. OK, I'm not Bart's biggest fan but even I know that he can be written 1 million times better than that. Ugh. It was almost embarrassing.

* Speaking of which, did the explanation for this character's resurrection make as little sense to anyone else as it did to me?

* The three founders as siamese-triplets. What is Geoff Johns' obsession with having these three do everything as a trio? Other than Garth's visit to the 21st century I don't think one of them has had the chance to do a single thing without the other two peering over their shoulder yet have they? Enough, Johns! More creative character interactions please.

* Mordru absorbing Kinetix where "even in death, she'll never have peace." If that really is the final fate of Zoe Saugin then what a horrible and cold end for a once fantastic and likeable Legionnaire.

* The Fortress of Solitude is a) still standing, b) undiscovered and c) not undergone a single re-design for 1000 years into the future?!? I really don't think so. I thought mankind had been shown to have spread over every part of the globe by the Legion's time? And surely somewhere as significant as Superman's fortress would have become a huge tourist attraction or military installation or something by then.

* The Dawnstar/Wildfire scenes. The 'unrequited love' angle of this relationship is as stale now as it was in 1976 (or whenever it first started) and these two characters are in desperate need of something new to define them. I like these two characters for their 'looks' but I'm going to need a lot more than that to sustain me. Move on with them already, Johns!

* That double-page spread of Kon-El was 18-20 wasted panels that could have been spent on characters much more interesting, pertinent to this storyline and, I don't know, Legiony instead.

* The impact of the Time Trapper reveal was blunted significantly by the fact that he seems to do a BIG REVEAL at the end of every story he appears in and it's always someone different and yet just as unwelcome underneath the hood. Even though I am now a fan of Superboy-Prime this was a particularly stupid and underwhelming reveal IMO. I like the suggestion I've seen somewhere that the Time Trapper actually has no true identity and just keeps changing his/her face for maximum mind-f**kage.

...

OK So looking at that above list it seems the Bads have won. And after having written and re-read all that I think that's the right result. Read on it's own, Lo3w #4 was a disappointing, unsatisfactory issue. But definitely not so bad that I think it will in any way affect my overall enjoyment of this series. I've loved the 3 previous issues way too much for that. Here's hoping #5 gets back to that high quality.

Did I get that wrong? It's an homage to whichever Adventure cover it was that had all the panels of different Legionnaires all over it. When I wrote that part I was on a train with a wonky internet connection and couldn't look it up as definitively as I wanted to.

Yeah, that would be Adv. 300, but I don't see multiple panels of Legionnaires on what I presume to be the new cover, which shows Superboy flying in the middle and Superman and Luthor in the background. Do you have a link to another cover that I don't know about?

This one:

http://comics.ign.com/dor/objects/1.../adventure-comics-20090430052010241.html

There are at least two Legionnaires on there, and possibly three.

I was one of the people to make that suggestion, but what I intended was that he didn't make himself LOOK LIKE Superboy Prime (or Rokk or whoever) but that he actually BECAME that person for a while, for whatever purpose. A being who can control time and even create a whole pocket universe could conceptually go beyond just changing his shape a la Chameleon Boy's "super-disguise" ability, or Projectra's illusions. IMHO, of course.

Still not sure if I'm making myself clear. I don't mean that "Cosmic Boy" or "Superboy Prime" are alter egos of the TT. Or that he's possessing them either. I'm imagining him displacing them and subsuming their entire identities, as part of his own, and actually walking a mile in that person's shoes for a while as a means to an end, or just to explore the universe from a different perspective in order to satisfy an eons old curiosity. Or just to alleviate the boredom of being immortal, or whatever.

Ah. Now I see what you mean. I didn't see a link to that cover in your review. Thanks.