Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Official LSH 3 Worlds Thread #5 out (FINALLY!! - spoilers)

Not at all. I Veilmist

Looking at the cover again, I'm glad to see that Perez went as far as to delineate the various ages of the different Legion's characters. The Reboot Legion looks to be somewhere around 18 - 21 in age, the Threeboot are in their mid twenties and the Action Legion in their late twenties, possibly even 30.

I don't understand all the hate and negativity over the DC Universe #0. I gave it to some friends to read and they want to read Batman R.I.P and Blackest Night. I don't understand how people are saying that its too inclusive and not meant for new readers.

I'll admit that I have just skimmed over some of the stuff posted here and the reviews but from what I can read, some of these people-and I mean the reviewers - are are just coming off jaded. The guy whose blog is titled something so you don't have to suffer? From the title alone, I doubt that he would ever have anything positive to write about in any of his posts.

I enjoyed the issue and found that I wanted to read more about everything. I love these teases of what is to come. Just my two cents.

Just my two cents.

If that's what I think it is, that was the blurb about DCU0, not a mission statement.

Some positive reviews by him:
http://www.thexaxis.com/misc/roseandthorn1.htm http://www.thexaxis.com/misc/echo1.htm http://www.thexaxis.com/minis/madrox1.htm http://www.thexaxis.com/cabledeadpool/50.htm http://www.thexaxis.com/misc/comicbookcomics1.htm http://www.thexaxis.com/minis/xfactorquickdead.htm http://www.thexaxis.com/misc/factionparadox1.htm http://www.thexaxis.com/misc/houseofmystery1.htm

I haven't been following GL so that section meant nothing to me.

Explanation anyone?

Over in "Green Lantern" Johns is introducing a whole bunch of other lantern corps of different colors, each color representing an emotion (red=hate, orange=averice etc). GL's old foe Black Hand is going to be part of the Black Lanterns, who are tied to the upcoming "Blackest Night" event in '09 where it's promised that "the dead shall rise".

Said at WW Philly

"In "Legion of Three Worlds," "fans all Legions will have their cake and eat it too -- but two of those pieces won't taste as good as the other one.""

Will I win my cake? Doubtful... In fact, I doubt my cake is there at all!

Also, the panel asked:
Will FC clean up the Legion of Super-heroes?: "Oh God, I hope so."

Maybe the Classic LSH will bite the dust and current one will be considered the one and only? Sounds improbable. But if Jim continues in the book...

As expected, postboot'll get slaughtered then...

Well, it seems that two of the legions could get the boot indeed.

I hope that if they're going to wipe out the reboot Legion that at least the unique Reboots make it through.

. . . I just realized that "unique Reboots" is a pretty big oxymoron. I want Gates, Kinetix, XS, Kid Quantum, Shikari and Gear to stick around. As much as I love the Reboot Legion, I realize that it has little chance of sticking around given recent statements -- which I find to be pretty stupid since DC just resurrected the Multiverse. How tough would it be to explain the Legions as New Earth, Earth 1 and Earth 2? What they can do a new Power Girl book set on Earth 2, but the three Legions can't be from 3 different Earths?

I just find the idea of wiping out any team to simplify continuity a short-sighted narrow view of things. Isn't the Multiverse's purpose to give us different versions of beloved heroes?

Just one thing: it is not clear Power Girl book will actually be set on Earth-2. I doubt it. Unless the old pre-Crisis DC comes back, which is very unlikely. I think Johns is going to give us a spin on that.

Preview of L3W #2 is up on Newsarama .

"Original" Saturn Girl looks remarkably good.

I wonder who the rescue is.

Thanks APB!

oh yes....G Perez did an awesome job on Saturn Girl and I really like the black and white version of her! Looks great on her!

Here's the info on L3W#2:

"FINAL CRISIS: LEGION OF THREE WORLDS #2
Written by Geoff Johns
Art by George Pérez & Scott Koblish
Covers by George Pérez
Geoff Johns and George Perez continue crafting the Crisis of the 31st Century! As Superboy-Prime leads the Legion of Super-Villains against everything and everyone inspired by the legacy of Superman, the Legion of Super-Heroes are forced to call for help from beyond their world. Meanwhile, contingency plans are created by Brainiac 5 as he attempts to overcome Colu’s devastating betrayal, Dawnstar and Wildfire pull off a startling rescue, but at a horrible cost to the universe, and Saturn Girl uncovers the source of the Legion’s troubles.
Retailers please note: This issue will ship with two covers by George Pérez that will ship in approximately 50/50 ratio. Please see the Previews Order Form for more information.
On sale September 17 • 2 of 5 • 40 pg, FC, $3.99 US"

Posted at Newsarama from a DC press event:

"Q from audience member: How many Legions after Legion of 3 Worlds?

Dan DiDio: One"

Yikes!

Just now from Newsarama:
"Q: Will the Legion seen in Action be seen after Final Crisis?

DD: All questions will be answered in Legion of Three Worlds.

Q: How many Legions after Legion of 3 Worlds?

DD: One"

This reinforces what was on Booster Gold blackboard hinting there will be only one Legion after L3W and that Shooter is history.

Let's try not to be too pessimistic about this. One is, after all, the optimum number of Legions... but it's hard to imagine a good way of getting to it from where we are. That doesn't mean that DC hasn't found such a good way. Fingers crossed.

I admire the optimism of many of you long-term(perhaps some short-term) LSH fans.

but there's no good way to get down to one LSH. and given that the bad guys are Time Trapper and Superman prime two methods come to mind: (1) lots of alternate time lines and pocket book universes; (2) lots of heads knocked off Pantha style. really, I don't expect anything deeper than that. if so, you guys will have to post reviews, because I won't be reading LO3W.

it's a shame really. but even with the revamp I don't think the LSH will take off. the concept is probably past it's time. I know, I know, it's better than anything and it's older than X-Men. true, but what are it's numbers. Countdown was panned by critics and comic readers, but it managed something like 60,000 per issue. were is this book? even with Shooter, it topped at what about 45-49 thousand.

I will do my best Dream Boy and tell you what I see. The new LSH book will open north of 50,000. after about six months it will slowly drop to around 30,000. any fans in Chicago what to take that bet?

DiDio and Geoff Johns have both mentioned the possibility of a Superman and the Legion title.

So, it does make sense that the Action Comics version remains -- though I have a feeling they'll probably regain a bit of youth.

Anything by Johns will sell -- but he'll have to lay some great groundwork so that the book will flourish after his departure.

could you please tell us where and how? thank you in advance

Sorry, but I really hate the idea of a Superman and the Legion title. I know that people worship John's Action issues, but that was a Superman story with a few nods to Legion history. I didn't see much development in the Legion characters; it was a fun trip down memory lane with our old friends, but there was virtually nothing that makes me feel like a similar style can carry readers' interest for very long. You can't do a whole series of splash pages and "hey, it's Yera!" or "hey, look at Polar Boy." With the focus on Superman, are we really going to see any significant developments in the Legion characters.

What is really sad is that Shooter has been doing some excellent character development in his few issues, but he was put in a no-win situation from the moment he came onto the book. And it looks like the threeboot Legion won't get a chance to develop while we get yet another Legion reboot that may attract immediate interest right away, but I suspect will lose readers pretty quickly.

I agree that it feels like a trip down memory lane, but it also feels like a backdoor pilot for the "old" LSH: new reader friendly, showcasing most of the team, setting up a new situation for the UP AND part of the newest version of Superman's history.

DC only looks at the numbers. The Action Comics Legion visibly sold more than the regular LSH title, and yet it doesn't feature the rebooted characters who are supposed to be more new reader friendly.

We'll see how it goes though.

[Warning: Long Post Follows]

I agree that we'll see how it goes, but I don't understand how anyone can say the Action Legion was not a "reboot." Every character got a new costume and there is no precise point in Legion history consistent with the team we saw in the Lightning Saga or Action Legion issues. While it's obviously an attempt to draw on the original Legion, there are going to be some aspects of the team that are rewritten.

Also, I would not put too much stake on the numbers for the Action issues. Looking at the CBGxtra.com analysis of Diamond estimates for Action sales, I found the following information on the Action Legion sales:

855 (pre-Action Legion) - 55,532
856 (pre-Action Legion) - 53,758
857 (pre-Action Legion) - 51,346
858 (Action Legion) - 54,540
859 (Action Legion) - 54,552
860 (Action Legion) - 56,220
861 (Action Legion) - 56,049
862 (Action Legion) - 55,623
863 (Action Legion) - 56,870
864 (post-Action Legion) - 48,428
865 (post-Action Legion) - 46,751

So that shows there was a slight bump in sales during the Action Legion issues. I will admit that I cannot explain why Action sales dropped off so precipitously after the Action Legion issues, but it could have to do with Superman fans (as opposed to Legion fans) being turned away from their own book by such a long Legion story. Or there might be other factors -- Countdown turned off a lot of DC readers, Trinity (another book with Superman) was on the horizon, etc. However, in terms of proving a large number of readers would pay for a Superman/Legion book -- over a pure Superman book -- the evidence of a large sales bump just isn't there. At most, you're talking a few thousand more people reading the Action Legion issues than the non-Legion Action issues.

The real question for DC is whether the market can sustain another Superman book. Right now, if there is only going to be one Legion coming out of Lo3W, DC has three options: (1) keep Action, add a Superman/Legion book, and eliminate LoSH; (2) eliminate Action and LoSH and add a single Superman/Legion book; or (3) keep Action and LoSH as is.

Let's address option 2 first. If they eliminate Action and LoSH to have one book -- maybe have Superman/LoSH take over Action, they would need to sell enough issues of that single book to turn more of a profit than they currently turn. Since I do not know the costs of producing LoSH, it is hard to estimate how profitable LoSH is. You have to figure LoSH is selling about 360,000 issues a year. So what are DC's production costs in relation to its sales revenue? A single book in place of Action and LoSH would have to have sufficiently increased sales to offset the profits being made on the two current books. (Obviously if DC is losing money on Legion, then simply cutting the costs would be profitable for the company, but I haven't seen anything to suggest the current Legion book costs more than to produce than it brings in.) In any event, I think this option is impossible for DC. It cannot eliminate Action, because of what it means historically. So this option is really just hypothetical.

I'm also going to ignore option 3. Keeping the status quo does not seem to be the plan.

So that leaves option 1, which assumes that Action and a Superman/Legion book will sell better than the status quo. If the Action numbers remain in the high 40,000s to mid-50,000s and a Superman/Legion book sells in the same numbers, option 1 makes sense. That would be 80,000 to 100,000 issues compared to the current 80,000 to 90,000 of combined Action/LoSH sales. But it's a complete roll of the dice that this will occur or that the sales numbers will remain at such levels for more than a few months. If Superman fans split their dollars between the Action and S/LSH books, DC could wind up with net sales (in the 80,000s) that are no more profitable than the current situation. Moreover, DC may alienate fans of the threeboot who refuse to buy the "original Legion" at all. And there is a risk of alienating fans of the "original Legion," who discover that the Legion coming out of Lo3W is not the Levitz/Cockrum/Shooter Legion of old.

In other words, elimating the threeboot and replacing it with a Superman/Legion book is a complete crapshoot. The assumption that sales of such a book will continue at the level of the Action Legion if Action continues as an independent series is not supported by any evidence I've seen.