Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! It's an old article but still relevant...

"It took David Cockrum, with his stylish makeover of this entire body of swarming youthful heroes, to fully bring the Legion of Super- Heroes into the contemporary comics model. He pounded the starch out of the costumes, shaking off the 1958 look that afflicted many of them (Chameleon boy and Lone/Timber Wolf) and firmly planting others in the fashions of 1973, done 2973-style (Phantom Girl). From the point of this makeover on, the Legion of Super-Heroes mostly kept pace with the standards of the industry and also enjoyed periods of commercial success."

Love that quote. And the guy that wrote this should edit the Legion! Nice to see someone agrees with me that they work better as young adults.

"The more retro-styled, and generally lighter, youthful Legion reflected the roots and original concept; but many of the character developments that pushed key players in the Legion mythos happened to older Legionnaires."

Again we have an "ALL NEW" Legion like after ZH..and AGAIN they are retro Adventure like. Why? When we have the Cockrum and Levitz Legion that are immensly popular. It's like rebooting the X-Men into just the original 5. retro is dead.

"The few issues of L.E.G.I.O.N. that I managed to pick up in dime and quarter bins suggest that DC considered this the cutting-edge, trendy one. The experimentation (as expressed in drastic deviations from the Legion of Super-Heroes form) tends to implicate it. L.E.G.I.O.N. dealt with a Legion of young adults, not too different in age from where Cockrum-era, Grell-era, and early Giffen-era treatments left them."

Yes. It's a slight shift. The retro comics? The retro roster? I know Waid/Kitson are just setting this up and lots will come but I really hope to see the Legion as yound adults again...and see a more Cockrum/Grell/Levitz/Giffen inspired Legion of sorts. Heck throw Kinetix in there...we should have elements of all Legions by now. Focusing on just the Adventure Legion is just wrong.

Jorg-EM for writer!!!



I agree, though, that celebrating just one era of the Legion is selling it kind of short. Of course, issue 15 might bring us a step closer to a multi-era Legion...

I'm sorry if I keep mentioning this but it's a passionate issue for me. I just had to live through one reimagining "back to roots" and now again. There is more to the Legion than it's roots. Much more. Another roots, another retro Legion.

The cover for #15 gives me tons of hope though. I fear it may just be IC related and won't have long term implications but I hope. That cover is exactly what I think the Legion needs and the direction it should go in!

You do understand that you're essentially complaining about one type of "retro" while applauding another, right?

I'm not saying that's wrong - like what you like - but pulling in characters from two or three decades ago isn't automatically a leap ahead no more than using even older characters was automatically a step back. It's what the creative team does with them that counts.

I don't think the current Legion is all that retro. There's a lot going on with these characters we've never seen before. And while it's true that we've only got Legionnaires who were there during the Adventure era, that's not because the Adventure era is being emphasized; it's because these particular Legionnaires were there during every era.

When the Legion was DC's number two book, it was written by Paul Levitz, who was, in many ways, the King of Retro.

Look at the new members he had join the team during his (second) tenure: White Witch, Magnetic Kid, Polar Boy, and Sensor Girl were all characters that had been around since the Adventure Era. Invisible Kid II was the successor to an Adventure era character. Only Tellus and Quislet, who were Steve Lightle's creations and conscious attempts at adding aliens to the team, were genuinely new. And they are characters that no one has used since that run. Add to this the fact that he restored Lightning Lass's original powers: totally retro.

Original villains? Other than putting the Legion up against Darkseid, he was notoriously unsuccessful in creating genuinely interesting new threats for the team. I remember a letter after they'd printed a list of major Legion foes and when they debuted which basically pointed out that almost all the important Legion villains had been created by Jim Shooter. And how many of Levitz's plotlines were basically re-writes of Adventure era tales with a then-modern style of storytelling?

Plus, would one revamp Superman and ignore the Daily Planet reporter and go directly to WGBS anchorman?

I think not.

Should one say that Spider-Man started out as a high school student or a college kid?

What Outdoor Miner, Matthew E. and EDE says is true. I love all of the Legion in every era (even TMK), but I'd prefer that the Legion begin at well...the beginning.

Some interesting points. It seems like whenever anyone wants to remake the Legion they go back to the Adventure roots (SW6, reboot, now threeboot) instead of the periods in which the Legion saw its greatest success, the early Superboy issues and the Levitz Legion.

I'm so thoroughly ill with retro...

Interesting article, and some pointed observations, though the writer seems to confuse L.E.G.I.O.N. with the Five Years Later LSH by suggesting that the former ran parallel to LEGIONNAIRES.

Come to think of it, it did. That means that three versions of the Legion appeared simultaneously. I'd never thought of it that way before. I'd always seen L.E.G.I.O.N. as a separate entity, with only superficial connections to the Legion. But now I can understand why an "outsider" reader would be confused.

One of the points that the writer (the article is unsigned) makes is that reboot problems fade away when writers don't take them too seriously. I agree with this. Too much time is spent mopping up the mess left by previous writers and/or previous incarnations of the Legion. This leads DC to demolish the entire house from time to time and start from scratch. I can't imagine that this is appealing to the new fans DC wants to attract to the Legion (the article mentions such fans' confusion when they encounter multiple versions of the Legion in back issue bins). I know it's not appealing to this older fan.

As for the emphasis on ADVENTURE-era Legionnaires, or Legionnaires who have been present in every incarnation, this emphasis denies the originality and popularity of characters who came later, such as Wildfire, Dawnstar, Gates and XS. This emphasis seems to be based on an assumption that nothing worthwhile has been created for the Legion since 1969, an assumption that is as infuriating as it is illogical.

I don't know if I'd go that far. I think it's just a recognition that you can't do everything. Because, let's face it, you can't do everything. The Legion has an extremely large cast; it must be almost impossible to juggle all those characters. I want Blok and XS and Dawnstar around just as much as the next guy, but I can't think of anyone in the current cast I'd be able to justify removing to make room for them.

Well I know at this point any former Legion is retro. This Legion collects silver age comics from before I was born. They drive cars from back then as well. Things that today are certainly retro...and as hard as they are trying to sell it as cool it isn't. Thus this Legion is much more retro than any other IMO.

Then taking the gamble by alienating fans from any other Legion era...isn't wise. Any bets that issue #15 may sell more than #1? Or atleast more than most of the other issues. This back to roots seems to imply the early Legion is the better and that is just false.

Levitz used elements from the past...he didn't try to redo the past...twice. His wasn't a back to basics approach at all. It was a building, additions, using the past not living in it.

The latest DC Teen Titans doesn't focus on Robin, Wonder Girl, Speedy, Kid Flash, and Aqualad. No they used elements of the past (a new Robin, a new Wonder Girl, a new Kid Flash, a new Speedy) as well as elements of the books biggest success (cyborg, raven, starfire, beast boy) and a new element Superboy.

You guys can prefer the Legion being at beggining..over and over and over again. Cause it's the third time now. Atleast they avoided with beggining with the origin this time.

I'm with armsfallboy and He Who Wanders. Names like Waid/Kitson relaunching a new Legion should have numbers way higher.

Gary, I agree that the legion should start off as teenagers just like Spidey. But this is the third time we start off now. We get it. Legion started as teenagers. They have that young spirit...now lets move them on just a little. Trust me I don't want a 30 year old as a Legionnaire. 18 to 24. Infact I don't think they should ever age past 24. But with a "legion" can't we have more variety?

Variety in ages, races, characters from different eras?

Also I apologize for complaining. This Legion IMO while is not exactly what I like it's very high quality. I just think they really shot themselves in the foot which upsets me because with yet another reboot they should've thought it out better.

Plus most of the guys here defending this Legion are usually the guys that are fans of obscure Legion history. I honestly think there is a way to make the legion have more broad appeal without selling out.

Also Barry has hinted there is much to come. I am hoping that they started this Legion very slowly/carefully...set a strong base to "launch" from.

http://members.fortunecity.com/murel_bailey/opinion/opi60.html

Here's a weird lament for the silliness of Bouncing Boy.

Re: Bouncing Boy. Anyone who reads Exiles? Anyways Beak saved the multiverse some time ago. He's the ugly useless teen mutant Morrison introduced a bit back. It reminded me of Bouncing Boy. Anyone no matter how silly they appear can save the day. Ofcourse the story in Exiles was pretty good. If Bouncing Boy is done right I don't mind him.

http://members.fortunecity.com/murel_bailey/recycleb/rb30.html

Here's one about Ultra Boy as a Biblical Hero.

Part of why I like Bouncing Boy and Tenzel is that neither of them are unaware their powers are useless. They just have all the qualities of a hero DESPITE it.

I've really never understood the notion that Bouncing Boy or Matter-Eater Lad's powers were really that much sillier or more useless than most of the other team. I mean, what about Shadow Lass. She makes it dark. I can do that by flipping a light switch. And this is supposed to be a useful power? Especially in the 31st century, when everyone has advanced navigation technology, and being able to see where you're going isn't nearly as important.

Shadow Lass' power must nulify sonar, radar, infra-red etc... nightvision equipment.

Tenzil's power would be slightly more useful if he didn't mind killing or maiming people--the ability to eat anyone is pretty hair-raising. I mean, he's basically a more powerful Wolverine--get him within biting distance of the biggest, toughest brick in the world, and they're dead. Unless they have a forcefield, anyway.

Oh, I think Tenzil could be an extremely effective character in a fight if writer's were actually creative with him or extended it in natural ways (e.g. a certain degree of super-speed and durability). I'd love to see him bite a nice chunk out of a supposedly invulnerable foe.

The point is that just as writers have worked to enhance Shady to make her more effective in recent years, the same can be done with Tenz.

Actually, I tend to think that Tenzil should be more like a Pete Wisdom (Excalibur) reference. He's already been in government. Make him like Dev-em and have him be a secret agent.

I have this image of Tenzil being laughed at by a villain
"What are you going to do? Eat me?"
And Tenzil pulls a gun.

LOL I like it!

I loved the Bouncing Boy article. I agree that he embodied innocence in comics and served as more than comic relief. He was an unashamed reminder that yes, sometimes life can be absurd. The key to success lies much in how we deal with the absurd.

Chuck had a positive mental attitude. He knew his power was silly and he knew he was overweight. But he still had enormous self-confidence. He applied for the Legion again after being rejected. He went up against Computo even when he'd (temporarily) lost his powers. And, of course, he got the girl.

The article makes a very strong case for viewing Chuck as the soul of comics, and for imaginining his inclusion in a "serious" comic book as a test for when that comic has become too serious. I agree, though not completely. The doctored Rohrschach/Chuck panels were a hoot, but WATCHMEN was a work of such singular vision that the lightheartness of a Chuck-like character wouldn't have fit. But other comics which have tried to "out-grim" WATCHMEN could certainly have benefited from the inclusion of a light-hearted "everyman" as a regular character. After all, Tenzil's addition to the 5YL Legion did wonders for alleviating the tension of that otherwise grim book.

http://members.fortunecity.com/murel_bailey/recycleb/rb32.html

Yet another article on the Legion

The Ultra Boy article was interesting, but offered nothing new. It was already well known that there was a groan factor in UB's name being Jo Nah and his origin being a rehash of the biblical Jonah's story.

The writer of the article argues that the writer of the Ultra Boy story must have been playing with the reader, using "corn" as a type of joke to rub the biblical references in the reader's face. I don't see that. Ultra Boy's origin doesn't appear to be cornier than most Superboy stories of that era. In fact, once you get past the matter-of-fact origin and name, Ultra Boy as a character has nothing in common with Jonah.

As for the other article, I had always known that Supergirl's first encounter with the Legion was a rehash of Superboy's first encounter with the team. But I hadn't realized just how much the second story recycled the first until I saw the panels with virtually identical dialogue and ice cream parlors.

Yes, it was certainly a different era then, with a readership that didn't appear to be very critical (and certainly wasn't organized in expressing what criticisms they did have). There was no Comics Journal blasting Weisinger for recycling stories. There were no message boards of fans calling the writer a hack for being so unoriginal.

What amazes me, though, is how the Legion grew beyond the triteness and repetition of its earliest stories to become the beloved franchise it is today. Something else else in those early stories laid the seed for the Legion as we know it.