Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Lardy's Roundtable: How forgettable or unforgettable was SLSH/LSH between Earthwar and Levitz II/Giffen?

For some reason, I always have had a soft spot for the Space Circus issues. I know they are ridiculously cheesy, but having the Legionnaires undercover as circus stars gave a few good moments.

Somebody mentioned the development of Timber Wolf during this period. I really liked the take on him being very spartan and isolated in 30th century civilization. One of my disappointments with Levitz's run was that he completely abandoned this aspect of Timber Wolf's personality.

Based on your original conditions, I'd say fugedaboudit. The only things that happened that stuck were Blok, and RJ as Cham's dad. There were some decent character moments, but not a lot.

The art was only okay. A handful of Perez covers were better than all of the era's interior pages. Staton and Janes were only okay, IMO. Ditko's stories were like novelties.

That said, I'm a completist. I have all the sequential issues from the Archives til today. I'm only missing guest apps here and there. It bugs me to not know the little things that the characters have been through, let alone major skirmeshes. So there you have 2 different answers, Lardy.

Jimmy Janes art may have been good, but it suffered from atrocious inking up until his last few issues. IMHO they're not worth reprinting in a trade paperback much less an Archive.

If you are considering collecting the issues from this time period, don't forget the "Secrets of the Legion of Super-Heroes" three issue mini-series that came out then also! I'd say it is a must even if you don't complete the pre-boot series.

I just finished reading the latest Essential Avengers and I get to the issue just before Giant-Size Avengers #4...I'm thinking who did the art, it's atrocious. It sorta looks like it was pencilled by George Tuska, who usually does a god workman-like job, but I can't really tell. I flip to the credits and, of course, it's inked by Frank Chiaramonte.

I started reading LSH in French with the Grell issues, and LSH in English just after Earth War, so this is spot on when I started reading it.

The run wasn't stellar, but was certainly more interesting that about half the stuff we've had since Zero Hour. Art wasn't always great, but there were good stories... The mystery of Reflecto, the Darkman, the introduction of Blok (always had a soft spot for him).

To be honest, I had more pleasure re-reading those when I bought a full run of LSH 200 to 354 a few months ago (I had sold my entire LSH collection after Zero Hour and bought it again after the Lightning Saga)... Than I've had pleasure reading the Waid Legion (Shooter excluded)

It's interesting that so many people here came on board during this all in all underwhelming Conway run.

It's the same with me, the somewhat shortened German version of the Omega story was my first Legion book - and I loved it! it took me years to get all the issues of this time period, and I really can understand anyone who doesn't want to go through the trouble of hunting down the Psycho Warrior and Dr. Mayavale.

But: there are wonderful stories to be found there. The Starlin ones to start with (Murder most foul and Omega), obviously Earthwar before that and stories like "Beneath the streets lurk death" or "The planet that captured the Legion" which I remember fondly.

I also think that many issues would have been better if they would not have been drawn by Steve Ditko, who did some fill-ins back then which were just... alarming? Just imagine Dr. Mayavale being drawn by bondage specialist George Perez (who already did the wonderful cover!) instead of an uninspired Ditko... maybe the issue would not be what it is here on this board... imagine some little boy buying the issue because of the beautiful cover, and then, he opens it and... doh!

So all in all, many stories of that era are sub-par, but many of them due to the art. The issues done by Starlin, Jim Sherman (jummy!) and Jimmy Janes are certainly the better ones.

My first Legion issue is from that era, it is where Dawnstar, Garth, Tinya, Blok (and maybe someone else?) go back to Smallville, and they are attacked by the Army then the Molecule Master (or something) and Tinya phases out and takes someone with her (forget who). Maybe not a steller time in Legion history, but I remember thinking that single issue was pretty exciting. Then many years later I got the end of the Reflecto story line and I was sooooo confused at what was going on.

I was always told to stay away from that period in Legion history (minus Earthwar) but I have picked up some of those issues for cheap and don't feel bad about that. So if I can get it cheap I'll pick them up (hey it's Legion and I'm still hoping someday I'll figure out the Reflecto storyline).

I was initially exposed to a smattering of Levitz/Sherman issues, and loved them. By the times I was regularly getting Legion it was Conway/Staton, and I was largely underwhelmed; there were more "super spectacles" stories than gems. But there were enough gems and kernals that the era was not pointless: the League of Super-Assassins story, the healing of B-5 (corny, perhaps, but it read well when I was a kid), the Dark Man story, the induction of Blok, the death of Jo, and Reflecto stories all contained some value.

I disagree with those who praised Janes and dissed Ditko; I hold an opposite view. True, it was not Ditko in his prime, but to me even slightly-tired Ditko is still more worthwhile than overrated mediocrity.

I loved that reflecto/ultra boy/superboy storyline...that 2nd issue of the legion in smallville was horribly drawn..if you hate the lighthing saga in action art work ...you'll love it like it was perez compared to that issue.. but anyway...i liked when how pat broderick made the legionnaires look in the conclusion story. and it did make sense to me...but i was 11 years old at the time so... LOL.

Best line from the conclusion story 282... "hmmmmmmmmm i cant wait till he turns that ultra energy on me" - Phantom Girl

I think people don't like the Ditko stories because its not what they expect from the Legion. Personally, I think he did a great job. Not his greatest comics for sure, and not in his prime, but like Kent said, I'd take it over overrated mediacrity anyday--and Legion fans have been subjected to that for sure.

Hm, it's interesting that there actually are people who are okay with those Ditko issues. To me, they always were among the most appalling comic book art I could imagine, right down there with Mister Rob Liefeld...

I really am astonished that there can be two opinions about that once in my life I thought something was crystal clear I can understand that there are different opinions about Gary Frank or Curt Swan or Keith Giffen or Chris Bachalo, whoever. But I really always had the feeling that nobody could like Ditkos Legion stuff...

I do not want to disrespect Mister Ditkos work on Spiderman and so on, but those Legion issues...

????

You just have to be more willing to accept Ditko's vastly different style. I don't think he took the scripts and decided "I'm going to just wing this one", which I think is what a cocaine addled Rob Liefield did many times in the 1980's and 1990's.

Then again, I think the people who enjoyed Superboy's Legion are loco, but that's just my opinion...

I still think the Omega story is one of the best Legion stories ever. That story made me a lifelong Wildfire fan. That and I love it whenever Brainiac 5 goes totaly out of his mind.

Most of the Stuff I had then (German editions) is gone - only some warm, fuzzy feelings for this time period remain. But I'm determined to hunt down most of the issues - for the sheer fun of it (and the 70s weirdness of stuff like the space circus and the engineer).

Liked Best
Omega story arc SBOY & LSH 250-251
Dark Man LSH 269-271
absolute dreck, best to avoid:
the disgraceful defeat of Mordru in LSH 276

Another German on this board? Invisible Man? Another one who came on board via "Die größten Superhelden" and so on ?

Yep, another fan of Blitzjunge and Sternenschwinge. Glorious days with Ehapa...

Greetings to Bamberg from Braunschweig

I have to agree with anyone who dislikes the Doctor Mayavale story. I also cannot stand the Intergalactic Circus storyline and that atrocious Kantuu story.

I think the main problem with most of the Post-Earthwar pre-Levitz run was that it was an ebb between two great batches of stories.

It always happens on long-running series.

Lardy, I bumped some pertinent threads on this era for you....

Check out your fellow posters' opinions on these threads...

"Saturn Girl is crumbling to DUST..."

"...haven't read "Space Circus"

"How did you betray Dr. Mayavale..."

and "The all-KANTUU thread".

Fun for all!

My advice is, if you're not a completist, forget this era ever existed. It sucked pretty hard in both art and stories, imho.

Except for the outrageously bad stories others have cited above, this era kept me entertained. There was some good character work on Wildfire, Timber Wolf, Brainy, Lighting Lad, Saturn Girl, Ultra Boy and Phantom Girl, and others.

The Omega story and its aftermath shouldn't be missed, nor should the Wildfire origin story, and the more I read the Reflecto arc, the more I like it. I still don't understand it, but I like it. It was sort of a swansong to the Silver Age.

I always liked the Dr. Mayavale and the Dark Man saga (LSH #268-271), as they were the story that introduced me to the legion. I was only a kid and the Shadow Lass Vs. Validus scene from issue 269 was for me breathtaking. That and I liked the art, too.

So after letting this thread percolate for a while, I'm still undecided. At one point I was totally resolved to seek out the entire run, but I'm at a bit of an impasse. For the most part, the enthusiasts seem more nostalgic than anything else, but some cite enough memorable moments to make a case.

However, the "forgettable" votes were starting to come in rather more frequently the last page or so. And almost no one really went out and extolled that the era was a pivotal one for any fan to own and read. More and more cite only a few "can't miss" stories to pick up among the 40ish issues published.

So I'm near the point where I'm leaning toward picking and choosing which issues to buy and which to avoid from that period rather than completing the collection.

Is there anyone who can pull me back from the brink and convince me I must have them all?

Why exactly would you not get them?

Lardy:
I would suggest you set an adequate price-per-issue level, and only pick them up when you find them at that price, whether discounted at a con, or someone selling a lengthy run on eBay.

That way, you leave it to the fates as to whether the opportunity floats your way.