Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Thoughts on villains

I'm trying to think through something I want to mention...

I'll start with a simple question...who is(are) your favourite Legion villain(s)?

But the real thing I'm thinking of is...of all the great Legion villains, how many of them are great basically just because of one, or possibly two, storylines?

Are there any villains in your opinion who have really sustained greatness over mulitple appearances (like someone like the Joker, Lex Luthor, Doctor Doom, etc.) (not that I don't get tired of these guys, but they definitely sustain fans' and writers' interests)?

In my thinking, there are very few or none. The Legion seems to lend itself to humongous, potentially epic battles against a threat, but not necessarily to that threat appearing again and again, as many other hero's enemies do.

So, great Legion villains and their great stories (all this of course is just my opinon)

Mordru had two--first appearance, Earthwar. Other appearances were either a mockery (Lord Romdur's Castle) or just not as good (reboot Mordru). I guess 5YG Mordru started off interesting, but had definitely fallen apart by the series' conclusion.

Universo had two great stories (Legion Chain Gang, Universo Project). Interesting in his case that it was his second appearance that really defined him, not his first. Dreamcrime, to me, had the feeling of one-too-many-trips to the well.

Time Trapper's best stories came in the arc penned by Levitz that ran from Legionairres Three - Cosmic Boy - Death of Superboy - Conspiracy. To me everything before or after was a bit or extremely silly.

Similarly, Glorith's best stuff was when she was reintroduced into the Legion's history during the 5YG, but when she actually showed up in fresh battles, she became hard to take seriously.

The LSV had two great stories so far: the Colossal Boy spotlight during the Adventures run, and then the LSV war that opened the Baxter books.

Computo had his debut story, which is okay reading it today, but it was Levitz' first annual story that made that character great. Later appearances were okay, but not brilliant.

Darkseid was of course phenomenol during the Great Darkness Saga, but sequels/reimaginations failed to capture that magic.

I guess the Fatal Five had a couple of good stories in the Adventures run, but later on they never really seemed to live up to the reputation they should have built. They just seemed like a bunch of silly thugs, whatever the version, that the Legion had to bother with from time to time. Exceptions are Levitz's Fatal Five, who were basically a different team, and elseworld's Superboy's Legion FF appearance. That was pretty good.

As you can see, for me most of the definitive stories of most of the LSH villains happened during Levitz's tenure. But I also enjoyed the Blight, Robotica, Lemnos...but I realize I've got no interest really in seeing any of them again.

An exception for me is Lightning Lord. Not that he's had a whole lot of great stories where he's been a key villain, but he's a character and villain who's repeated appearances haven't really tired me out. I guess it's the personal connection that's interesting.

Anyway, just curious to share these thoughts, and hear yours.

I think the Fatal Five have had the best sustained career of the Legion villains. Both Adventure appearances were great, the 70s appearances weren't bad, the Empress's 5 was a good story, and the SW6 era Fatal five arc was pretty good. Even the postboot appearances weren't horrible (even if they were horribly artificial). Plus, they've been okay (if a little underwhelming) in their animated appearances as well. Add to that various solo appearances by members over the years, and I think they've had a pretty good run.

The Time Trapper was actually probably best as a villain before he was ever actually seen, when he was just this ominous threat in the Adventure era. The massive "showdown" with him was a fairly big letdown. And he was pretty uninteresting until Levitz got ahold of him.

I pretty much agree with you regarding Mordru.

I actually think the *only* worthwhile Universo story is the Legion Chain Gang. Levitz seemed to be setting up something with him in regards to the Green Lantern connection, but it never got developed. He was okay in the 5YL Legion as well, but why they keep using this guy is beyond me.

The best LSV stories are actually the Adult LSV appearances, as far as I'm concerned. None of their three teenage appearances (not counting the current arc) really live up to the potential. The Levitz era isn't bad, but the team is way too much of a hodgepodge of characters who don't really fit together.

Darkseid = One good story, should never have been used again.

Computo's preboot appearances were great, and his postboot appearances weren't bad.

Tyr's appearances have been consistently good, if not all that exciting.

And the greatest Legon villain of all time is Nardo, but he's never re-appeared. Maybe that's a good thing?

The Hunter captured my interest pretty well when I was a kid. Maybe it was the pretty cover and the "The Most Dangeroous Game" rip for the story, I dunno for sure, I didn't care a lot for his "son" in the 5yg though.

The reappearamce of Starfinger was pretty weak (to me) and if not for Starlight and Starbright I wouldn't have cared anything at all for the villian of the piece.

The Composite Superman was a pretty cool story in the Silver Age and I even liked the Durlan version in the reboot. I don't know if I ever actually want to see either one of them again though, it'd take one heckuva tale for me to care.

Yeah, I'd have to say the Adult LSV is probably the most long lasting set of villians. We've seem both Lightning Lord and Saturn Queen in solo settings as well as in the LSV team and I like both of them. Heck, I'd like to see Saturn Queen show up in the current book, she seems to be Mark's type of character.

Maybe the Dominators will put in a strong showing in the book, they caught me by surprise in the 5yg and for a while they were were a pretty massive threat...and I still like the Khunds. I'd be interested in seeing the "Khundish Legionnaires" show up as antagonists for the current team. Might be fun.

I reeeeallly Really Really like Mordru in the Mordru Rising storyline towards the end of 5YG that introduced the Khundian Legionnaires. The Legion of Super-Assasins (?) (Lazon et al) had the potential for coolness aswell.

I agree, Lazon, Silver Slasher and Mist Master are all quite interesting villains.

One thing I'd really like to see in the rebooted Legion is someone from the LSA different than Blok joining the LSH. Say Lazon, for example. If they gave him a nasty-but-trying character things could get interesting, we would not know if he's a villain or not.

I'd forgotten them ..pretty much.. but it occurs to me that they too had a Fatal Five tie in (sort of) with the Dark Man (Tharok's other half). I agree, they didn't give those characters nearly enough attention and when any were used in later stories they were basically just fodder to fill out the ranks.

Ras al Ghul was an interesting Legion Villian. A bit wierd to see a Batman villian show up in a Legion tale but it was a pleasant surprise and could possibly have been expanded on later if the run had continued. I don't think I'd like to see him in the 3boot though.

At this point I have no idea what Mark Waid's going to do with Tarik the Mute but the return of a little known Silver Age villian is interesting (somewhat) and could lead into some long spin off story arcs once we see the size and membership of the outfit he's putting together.

I could stand seeing The Devil's (half) Dozen again. An appearance by The Hag (The White Witch) would be even more interesting now with Dream Girl being absent/dead/imaginary and could lend some real angst to the situation...and a reappearance of Evillo would only suggest the possible appearance of his daughters (he he)

Then there's always The Wanderers or the Lallorians..and you know what(?) you guys are right...the current atmosphere of the book is practically perfect for Mark to rework "The Legion Chaingang". I could easily see this version of Earthgov being manipulated by Universo.

..oooo00..Universo would be So cool in the cartoon..(sorry wrong forum)

I loved the whole Dark Man saga, from the LSA through to the Fatal Five. Of course, I was around 10 at the time, but reading my cousins copies is what started me wanting to collect the book myself.

My first issue was the Computo annual, and though s/he was a pretty scary villain, of course that was followed by GDS which blew my mind.

Still, I'll always have a soft spot for the Dark Man and waited patiently through most of the Levitz run for he and Tharok to return.

Darkseid, like Marvel's Thanos, works really really well in very light usage. He can't be relegated to villain-of-the-week without losing what made him special in the first place.

The Fatal Five, and the Legion of Super-Villains, and the League of Super-Assassins, are my favorite teams that I'd like to see more of, and particularly more flexibility (like Emmy's own take on the Fatal Five with Caress and Mentalla and whomever), allowing the villain groups, like the Legion itself, to have new characters from time to time, and tweak around the old standbys.

Tharok, in particular, I always wanted to see more out of, upgrades cobbled together from stolen Coluan or whatever tech, allowing him to surprise his foes with new gadgets and capabilities, like a villainous Iron Man.

For solo villains, I loved the Universo story involving Brainy, Dreamy, Imra and Reep being sent off to a prison planet, while the rest of the Legion played flunky. Awesome storyline, and Imra going into the minds of the other three to break their conditioning was a very cool look at how truly 'alien' Brainy, Dreamy and Reep's minds are, even to a telepath with years of experience at alien mind-reading. But, like Darkseid, Universo is a one-trick pony, and trotting him out again and again doesn't really pack the same punch.

Rival Khundian and / or Dominator sponsored champions (heroes, to their people) would make for an interesting diversion, although the Khundian 'heroes' like Garak of the Glow tended to come across as chumps...

I guess I feel about most LSH villains as you do about Darkseid...that they work best sparingly. Which of course means you've got to come up with a lot of consistently good villains and threats. Any bad guy that gets dealt with in one issue (at least in the last twenty years) is pretty much a non-entity, it seems like.

Looking at it historically, for most bad guys, I generally feel that the best they can hope for is one great Adventures era story, one great Levitz story (for me, as I think for many, when Levitz got ahold of a character he generally portrayed the definitive version of them. Not too successful at creating new villains, though), and then perhaps one great resomethingboot (including five year gap) reimagined appearance. Of course there are exceptions (some characters never even had the great Adventures-era story, like the Time Trapper).

I know the Fatal Five are really popular, but I never felt really compelled by any of the post-Levitz appearances of the team. Maybe it was just lack of an interesting, galaxy-shaking motive.

The LSV always have potential because they can draw membership from any sub-omnipotent villains already seen. But I always thought there early appearances were silly, just being adult, bad guy versions of the LSH.

People have mentioned the League of Super Assassins, and they were some admittedly interesting folks there, but did they actually have any good stories as the LSA? My memory has them at their best serving in the ranks of the big LSV war. Or was that earlier story better than I recall?

No, you're right on.(imo) I wasn't a big fan of the stories during the Joe Staton art period. I'm guessing that the greatest attraction to that LoSA story is the addition of Blok to ths LSH.
I always thought they had way more potential than we ever saw but then they were quickly relegated to 2nd class villian status and basically disappeared.