Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Let's Talk About LSH #4 (potential spoilers)...

This is what let this story down for me a little. I really like the idea, but the logic behind the dimension swapping seems very problematic. The more I think about it the trickier it becomes.

A really nice story otherwise. I'd like to see more back-ups like this. What I'm really appreciating about the new LSH is that Mark is following through on his intention to put the characters at the heart of everything that happens. It's something Dan Didio mentioned too in his mission statement for the DCU post-Identity Crisis: stories need to be about how events affect people, the emotional impact. It's a nice change from what I saw as the downside to the DnA era - lots of 'big' battles.

I read # 4!

1. I really liked the Morgnas a lot.

2. I was waiting for Cos to slap Lyle. I do NOT care for Lyle being portrayed as so much younger than everyone else. Scenes like big butch Cos screaming at li'l kiddie Lyle reminded me of instances in Cos' preboot history that made me dislike him so much.

3. What's all this about Dirk quitting?

4. Colossal Boy remains a favorite, but he is now getting competition from Chameleon after last issue and this issue. It's so odd for me to be calling Gim and Cham "favorites".

5. Yeah, that "unique properties" line totally leapt out at me. "The Unique Properties of Condo Arlik" is absolutely one of my favorite LSH tales.

6. No probs with the art, but I also call for Barry's swift return.

7. Whereas the ending of the first tale was very sweet and made me smile, the end of the second made me quite sad. I felt for both Tinya and Val-- Val, feeling ignored, ditched her (I would have done the same thing) and Tinya herself is obviously having problems dealing with her life situation. I hope these 2 can rebuild their budding friendship. They both look like they could use a friend.

8. This ish wasn't nearly as funny as # 2 & 3 but it had its moments. I personally love the balance of fun and drama. It's SOOOOO nice to be getting buttloads of characterization for a change!

9. I'm still getting that "special feeling" from this book... that Claremont/Cockrum X-Men, that Perez Teen Titans, that 1990 New Warriors feeling that hit comics are made of. I'm still loving this LSH and have no doubt it will continue to be succesful for the nonce.

10. And finally, I love how Waid is putting a kewl modern spin on hokeyass pun-worthy concepts! I mean, how hokey and silver-agey is the whole "Triplicate Girl is a billion girls who rebuilt an entire planet herselves" origin? And Tinya's situation is rife with comedic as well as dramatic possibilities. But for me, Waid makes these things work and work well. Doesn't mean I won't make fun of them sometimes, though!

I'm also unhappy with the depiction of PG's power tweak. Hopefully it will be a one-off and we won't have to think about it again. Waid shouldn't be straining to update all the legionnaire's powers/origins. Just do the ones where it is needed or appropriate. It seems to me that Phantom Girl is in the same position as Colossal Boy/Micro Lad. Since she has to focus to appear solid in our dimension and is otherwise a phantom she should be referred to as Tangible Girl!

Having also made fun of PG's depiction, I will say on balance that I like Waid's effort to give the Legionnaire's powers a downside, a cost, a price to be paid, whatever. It's not that she will die if she uses her power, but Tinya's ability places her literally between two worlds and makes it difficult for her to belong fully to either. It actually makes our heroes more HEROIC when they face situations like this, and stay heroes anyway. Tinya's situation is a concrete (?) manifestation of the typical superhero's plight: he/she can never truly have a life because only he/she can save the universe, blah, blah, blah. Of course, one can go too far with the martyr complex, and I appreciate the fact that Tinya, despite feeling sad about the outcome of the Val/Jarel situation, is basically a happy kid who enjoys her power and feels that the Legion is worth it. In contrast to the good more Morgna, who is thinking about quitting to stick it to his parents. I have faith that Dirk will make the right decision in the end, though.

Finally read it. Great cover.

First few pages I didn't care for but I've mentioned that since I saw the preview. But Sun Boy's parents are cool and I hope they stop baking cookies and encourage someone to get a piercing or a mohawk.

The conversation between Brainy, Cos and IK I liked lots. The dark room Brainy-Cos moments are becoming the reason I read this series...oh and the awesome look SPs!

OMG, wait a second. Two of my faves...who used to be best buds...look like best buds again! And THAT is the CHAM I'm talking about. I can live without antennae or eye brows as long as he has attitude. Blank faced Cham blah! Angry Cham yah!
(Gim and Cham at it again!)


Trouble on the Rim Worlds? ohhh. This sounds very interesting but how will Waid make these aliens different than the hundreds of other alien invasions we've seen...that's the question!

Lemnos? Hmm well if it's who it may turn out to be...I'm glad he's over 6ft tall and has a set of shoulders on him. IK living with Dirk's parents/ Um hello that's really gonna make Dirk quit? But I may enjoy that subplot. As long as we see what Dirk is doing when he's not on the team. Geez I think I am getting won over with this series.

BUT wait a second...the back up? Frag they always gotta do the silly stuff don't they? Phantom Girl's origin is really bad. I mean I loved TG's origin last issue but this? I like the limitation on powers like Element Lad, etc. I hope her situation changes quickly. Didn't care for Karate Kid's origin either. I was hoping he was Asian...but not even sure why they mentioned it...infact they may not want to mention it again. I can already see a few possible ways that can go. And darn PG is suppossed to be sexy she looks like a girl who hasn't reach puberty yet in the back up.

That's a club in future huh? It's like American Bandstand and the Mickey Mouse club rolled into one. They are winning me over but the feeling that Mickey Mouse might join any second creeps me out man.

I am getting won over by the plot and character interaction...but still some things like the 1950s white kids and weak girls thing is not cool.

The overall plot is just right I don't think it's slow like some others. Character interaction rocks!(girls need help) I am rooting for this series now.

This is the first issue i've really liked the story. The first one, that is. It gave a great motivation to Lyle and the info-virus in the blood was a great twist. The scene with Dirk's parents was nice and gave the characters more of a grounded feel for me, something i found entirely lacking in the last incarnation.

I did find the SP targeting the LSH jarred with the 'peaceful' UP theme though.

Then i got to the second story and my hopes dropped like lead. Great. Another stupid origin twist. And, worse, another of the 'everyone where i come from has this power' origins destroyed. I've always found exploring those palnets to be one of the Legion's unique charms. Especially little aspects put into the book over the years regarding things like how do you treat privacy on a planet of phantoms.

Said it before, say it again: having to retweak every origin to differentiate the book from previous incarnations works against the book. Keep the origins and put more depth into them, such as Lyle's story in this book.

If it happens again next issue i won't be buying it on a regular basis.

As for Gim's birthplace, he comes from a race of 'hyper-giants' now. Maybe the concept is the same as Bgytzl and it's an extra-dimensional realm occupying the same space as Earth, they just don't have a seperate name for it.

I still don't think they'd call it Earth if it wasn't Earth. There's obviously more to Colossal Boy that we'll have to learn.

I'm not feeling the new take on everyone's powers. It's like they're giving everyone's powers some kind of flaw. Chameleon can assume all these monstrous forms... but they're little better than illusions. Phantom Girl is a phantom who can become solid if she concentrates on it. Colossal Boy is a giant who can become short. Element Lad has his old powers, but they only work if he's touching the object (and the effect is only temporary, I believe).

And is it me, or is this version of the Legion a little bit too... horny? I mean, so far we've found that Light Lass has dated at least two of the Legionnaires, Triplicate Girl had dates with three Legionnaires simultaneously (and was apparently on the verge of having sex with one of them), and now Karate Kid is infatuated with Phantom Girl. And that's just in the first 4 issues.

I dunno... I know that we've jumped into the Legion timeline some time after the group formed, but I think I would prefer to see these relationships appear a little more slowly.

I remember being 16-18 and being really damn horny. Even a small breeze was likely to cause a commotion in my pants. I also remember girls in high school who dated one guy and then broke up and dated other guys. 2 months was a long time to be dating someone. Also, Light Lass said, "I don't know why I ever went out with you." instead of "I don't know why I ever went to bed with you." Quit inferring that they're having wild orgy's because that's not necessarily the case. We saw what happened when Jo, Jan, and Dirk all met up in Triplicate girl's room. They ran screaming.

I enjoyed issue #4. Someone said this current run reminded them of the Teen Titans of the 80's when they re-started that series and looking back on it all (I might have been 12 at the time) I guess I'd agree. You could tell that something was special about that series and it was going to do well.

I think a lot of people are forgetting that these are actual teens and teenagers usually don't have their heads screwed on that well yet. They're liable to not think things through entirely (big understatement) and my GOD, the girls were emotional rollercoasters! Dirk doesn't know what he wants and feels like quitting the team. Sounds kinda familiar to the stories of the guys who played football or basketball only because their dad wanted them to. Lyle's dad pushing him to become an over-achiever and Lyle resenting him for it, once he learned his true intentions.

I see a lot of issues that teens had to deal with when I was growing up. I see some mixed up kids with a decent set of values who are trying to change the status quo. There are comedic moments, serious moments, and neat-o superpower moments. In short, they're good comic book stories.

Maybe you've forgotten what it's like to be a kid or maybe you're just the "grandpa's" that don't understand where they're coming from anymore. I see a lot of people wanting this group to be something that they're not and they're not the 70's-80's LSH run, nor are they the Adventure era run.

I'm new but have been lurking for a long time.

I didn't want to like this Legion. I think they went too far with the reboot. But I've been reading Legion for years now so I imagine that has something to do with it. I'm liking it -okay. There have been several little things I liked but over-all, I just want to go back several months and play like this never happened. I'll still collect it, at least for a while.

Newbie post is now finished.

No they are not. But they certainly have elements of it. Yes I like that we have sexiness I could use more. At the same time this IMO resembles the Archie Legion a bit...and that doesn't mix well with sex. That's where I think the confusion is. These are suppossed to be these radical teens that stomp on authority so they can save the world and party like Mormons(???). If that is radical I don't wanna see wholesome for sure.

And while we are comparing this Legion...I dont see any former Teen Titans thing at all. But I do see some V4 seriousness (which Waid edited) and I like it...namely the Brainy/Cos thing plus the rimworld.

It's like Leave it to Beaver meets MTV (wholesome/sexy) and IMO they aren't being very successful with it.

(the plots and interaction are great...i guess the "style" is my main problem)

pax

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Princess Crujectra:
I'm not feeling the new take on everyone's powers. It's like they're giving everyone's powers some kind of flaw. [QUOTE]

They certainly do seem more limited than previous incarnations. I think I prefer power "flaws", which force them to use more teamwork, to character flaws - although we seem to have a few character-induced problems brewing.

I dunno... I know that we've jumped into the Legion timeline some time after the group formed, but I think I would prefer to see these relationships appear a little more slowly.

They have been together for some time, so we aren't sure when/how these relationships developed - although Triplicate Girl certainly seems to have been on a "first date".

The dating scenes do divide the legionnaires into two groups, in my mind: the serious, mission-driven (Cos, Brainy) and the adventure-oriented (Light Lass, Ultra Boy, Sun Boy, etc.).

Of course, we fans have a terrible tendency to pair everyone up - so maybe it's our fault ....

On the issues of power levels, I feel a team like the legion needed to be depowered a little. I like the fact that they need to work as a team to overcome these power "flaws" otherwise they would be just too powerful. It makes them rely on others, it makes them take part in social interaction, which seems to be one of the aims of this new legion.

They may seem "wholesome" to us, but not to a sterile and repressed culture that frowns upon physical contact and one-on-one socialization (the Bgtzl dimension may be an exception). With war on the horizon, I think it's only a matter of time before the authorities find an excuse to shut the clubs and restaurants down, and issue a youthreg that prohibits or seriously circumscribes underage dating and partying. As it is, kids who are wired to the Public Service probably have to go to radical lengths to engage in intimate activities (think of the two teenagers making out on a deserted planet in the October preview). It would come as no surprise to me if sexual congress between under-eighteens is a crime. Viewed in that context, Legion HQ might be considered a 31st century den of iniquity -- especially Ultra Boy's bedroom.

I completely agree.

Tromium I agree. Especially that the "war" may make the Legion more accepted or hated. Certainly less wholesome looking hopefully. Still I question the era the Legion emulate...the Silver Age comics? Batman giving flowers to girls? Atleast I can respect Jo's classic muscle car!

Re: Power levels? Hey I like it as well. Element Lad was way powerful I like the new restrictions. Phantom Girl? I just don't think it's such a hot idea about the two worlds. But for the most part I like the limitations as long as they remain "super-heroes". In other words not too weak.

Well, I'd prefer this not lead to a Legion that is not accepted by the UP at large. This is the Legion, not the X-Men. I don't want my team to be overly agnsty... I hope this all leads to a status quo more or less like the Legion should have, bright and optimistic. I can handle the war and destruction in this book right now because I'm hoping it all leads to an all out Legion triumph. TMK era aside, the Legion has always been about a bunch of hopeless do gooders making the galaxy a safer place and that's the way I prefer it.

I second matlock's sentiment.

Thirded by Vee!

It struck me as I was riding the bus this morning and reading Adam Strange #7 why I so despise the Phantom Girl story in Legion #4. It's embarassing.

Science fiction stories generally require you to take some leap of faith about some matter of technology -- time travel, hyperlightspeed travel -- or sociology -- apes evolving to overtake humanity, soylent green being made of people. But good science fiction writing, rewards you with a good story with only a limited investment in suspended disbelief.

The Phantom Girl story doesn't ask you to suspend your disbelief, but rather to suspend all logic. There just isn't enough logic in the explanation of Phantom Girl's existence to override the childish nonsense of the basic premise that her two worlds have identical physical characteristics and that her boyfriend and Karate Kid would have sufficiently parallel conversations simultaneously with her for her to engage in a conversation with one of them that the other assumes to be for himself. This is sheer nonsense that is embarassing to be seen reading.

Thanks to eBay, I just got Secret Origins 47 today and read "The Unique Properties of Condo Arlik" for the first time. (edited by.....Mark Waid)

Now that I get the reference in Legion #4, I like the issue better. Still my least favorite of the series though.

But what do you mean by "identical physical characteristics?" If you mean planetary size, that's explicable in plenty of ways depending on the exact relationship of the two dimensions. If you mean atmospheric composition and temperature and stuff, that's a convention across pretty much all of sci-fi. And if you mean the exact location of various features of each world...well, those aren't identical, hence the incongruity. (And I don't really think the immediate objections like "but where does she go to the bathroom?" are lethal, since we know she can limit herself to one world when she wants.)

As for the conversation...surely you've read/seen lots of books/shows/movies where Person A misinterprets Person B's comments to a third party as directed at them? I mean, that happens pretty often in real life! It's especially plausible when Person A is largely monologuing, and Person B is looking distracted in a crowded club.

Certainly we'll need to know more about the Earth/Bgztl relationship to have a complete picture of how Tinya's life works, but I don't think there's anything here more "nonsensical" than in any other parallel-universe stories. Heck, Tinya's current power mechanism is more believable than previous ones, because at least she phases into a second pretty-much-ordinary world...as opposed to the Phantom Zone, which was about as sane and logical as the land of Oz.

This book is not winning me over. I was going to list a bunch of reasons why the Phantom girl thing I so stupid but most have been covered by other posters so I will leave it czuse the more you think about it the dumber it gets.

the main story also annoys me the main thing is Cos is so unlikable with his whole you don't have to tell us anything about you speach and then a bollocking about how dare you not tell us. Just say Lyle wasnt super bright and just a groupie (Human cannon fodder sheild) outside his dad would still have done exactly the same thing. It's stupid.

I'm going to agree with you PB.

At least next issue (on sale tomorrow!) will be ten times better!