Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! Ramped Up and Toned Down Legionnaires

After 22 issues, it seems to me there are a few Legionnaires who are stronger than in previous versions, and a few who are weaker. Ones not mentioned here are either about the same or haven't had enough panel time yet to be determined. Here's my list:

Ramped Up:
1) After last issue, Karate Kid seems to have been amplified the most. Now both Jackie Chan and Kung Fu, the hard hitting, deep thinking Val is a stronger character now than in any previous versions. Batman-esque.
2) Shadow Lass has personal combat skills and an attitude added to her shadow abilities, making her more fomidable than ever.
3) Atom Girl is not only pistol-packin', but seems to have little moral conscience about exploding out of other people's bodies, making her more powerful, if not spooky.

Toned Down:
1) Saturn Girl's greatest strength was her ability to be like other people, but also be able to read their thoughts. As a mute in this version, she is totally reliant now on her ability to project her thoughts, just to communicate. When she lost this ability in an alternate dimension, she was rendered sheep-like and helpless. Also, the once brazen Imra now seems shy, or a least subdued. She has definitely been knocked down a few pegs in this version.
2) Colossal Boy went from growing large with a relatively unique power to growing small with a power shared by a city of other people. So far he's managed to get beat up by Ultra Boy, Karate Kid, and a girl. The Micro Lad code name is yet another downgrade. He has to be the front-running Legionnaire pick to be the first permanently removed in this version.
3) Phantom Girl seems to have changed little in fighting prowess, but her neither-here-nor-there disposition portrays her as spacey or flighty, a departure from previous versions as a 'solid' member.
4) Ultra Boy is now a stick of chewing gum away from being rendered immobilized. His ultra powers are now used at ultra effort due to his lack of brain power. This dullard version of Ultra Boy is a step back for him.

I must disagree.

I think Karate Kid and Shadow Lass are about the same as their reboot versions, as are Micro Lad, Phantom Girl and Ultra Boy. I don't see Saturn Girl as being any less powerful just because she doesn't talk.

If I had to pick out any characters as being less powerful, they'd be Element Lad, no question, and Atom Girl (because LeViathan could grow to giant size and Atom Girl can't).

I can't pick out anything in the books that actually proves this, but I suspect that Cosmic Boy, Saturn Girl and Lightning Lad all have stronger powers - not different, but stronger - than they did in previous versions.

Just some reactions to your initial list:

1. Karate Kid

I think Val's just more fleshed out this time around, having had more panel time & speaking lines than the 2boot version. He seems more like the Levitz KK to me, confident enough to mouth off but focused enough to know when to shut up & get the job done. I wouldn't necessarily say he's Batman-esque in that his "deep"-thinking mode (as opposed to he analytical mode) isn't always switched on the way Batman's is. I'd think though that he'd be naturally more analysis-driven when the need requires since he doesn't have an Ultra Boy or Mon-el power level to fall back on, hence the need to be constantly on his mental toes as he fights to optimize his existing skills.

2. Shadow Lass

3boot Tasmia appears to be an amalgam of both pre-boot & 2boot Tasmia. Pre-boot she seemed like a "casual" character who would express snide remarks with Phantom Girl in one breath then profess her love for Mon-el in another. 2boot Tasmia was almost all serious attitude to the point of being grave--a proud character who was more a warrior than just an individual excercising a power. 3boot Tasmia trades witty one-liners while being aggressive with her power. The only thing amped up with 3boot Tasmia is her sexuality (hooking up with KK then U-Boy), all the while explaining that expression for her is equated with physicality.

3. Atom Girl

As opinionated as the 5YL Salu, 3boot Salu's seems to have grown an attitude without the benefit of sens-tank confinement. Versus 2boot Salu who was shy to the point of being annoying, 3boot Salu's more action-oriented (punching Gim's brother, bursting out of Elysion's arm, semi-intimidating Invisible Kid)...more Machiavellian even. Not necessarily spooky...just more straightforward.

I understand your point about Element Lad, especially in the 'fight' with Raging Brainy, but the new limitation of his power by touch doesn't really seem to have affected his strength to date.

As for Atom Girl, she punched out a giant (Gim's brother) effectively enough, and doesn't really seem to be missing any pseudo growth powers she had as LeViathan, either.

There is no evidence what-so-ever that Cosmic Boy and Lightning Lad are any different than in previous incarnations strength-wise, mainly because we haven't seen a whole lot of them in action to date (other than talk).

As for the others mentioned, I stand by my explanations.

Considering Vi generally used her growth powers to become a punching bag when she had them, I don't think she's really lost anything with them.

I don't think Ultra Boy is actually a dullard in this version, and I certainly don't think he's any worse off than the "I need my wife to tell me how to use my powers!" version we had in the last 'boot.

I'd prefer that Vi actually use her powers and not have someone else's powers strapped on to make her 'tougher.' That's just, IMO, lame, and it only got lamer when they merged Jan and Garth as well...

Element Lad is the big loser, IMO. He used to be able to waggle his fingers and turn the atmosphere of a planet into X percet lead to drop a million rampaging Daxamites in their tracks, or seal Validus in a 50 ton cube of inertron (which Validus always seemed to break out of, but still, a pretty impressive combat tactic!). Now he can touch something, and it changes, for a whole minute. Worse, he's a complete simp who stands around waiting for someone with a gun *to stand in front of him* so he can reach out and transmute his gun. Any fool who knows how to make a fist can take him out of the fight, even Brainiac 5, who I would have considered the worst physical combatant in the universe, until he decked Element Lad, and the title changed hands...

Light Lass, in her actions on Colu unmasking Lemnos, showed some definitey stones. I don't recall her ever really showing off before her powers got flipped back to lightning control. She always seemed like a wuss with the gravity powers, to me, and then turned into a bit of a psycho with her lightning powers, about the same time Violet went mental, so I was never sure if that was a side-effect of the power swap, or the writers deciding to make her a little more gung-ho.

Chameleon, OTOH, seems weaker as well. Cham used to be able to change size and beat the crap out of people with great strength as a giant beast, or turn into something with paralyzing tentacles or super-senses or whatever. Now he can change size and looks scary, but fold like a cheap suit, since he doesn't get any stronger or tougher in stronger-looking or armored-plated-looking forms.

Karate Kid? Meh. I've always been dubious of the way they've presented him. That whole bit in Sydney where he punches the ice was completely ridiculous. Worse even than the 'Klenarian muscle-lock' he used to immobilize Superboy that one time.

I disagree. Cham easily beat the crap out a giant robot in issue #19. He never had bio-sensing powers before, either, which he used to identify the invisible Lemnos and find Saturn Girl when she was lost in that crazy dimension.

I don't think the touch and time limitations on Element Lad's powers are necessarily permanent. If he was at full-blown power levels now, people would be wondering when he's going to turn into the Progenitor. It's just as well he takes his time experimenting with them.

This Saturn Girl is arguably less powerful than the postboot illusion-casting, mind-puppet manipulating Imra, but she's also less likely to become a mental basket case. To my knowledge, she's never been able to physically alter brains before, and the scope and scale of her power (to affect dozens, perhaps thousands, of minds simultaneously as she did on Rimworld 19 and the Terror Firma homeworld) is equal to or greater than before. She's downed Ultra Boy in the past but not shunted his powers, which suggests finer control as well. On the other hand, she's incapable of controlling robots, like Adventure SG was. If her muteness puts her at a disadvantage in certain situations, at least she doesn't seem weighed down by the thoughts and emotions of other people, or faint a lot. She's regained some of her previous maturity, which is more important (imo) than having ramped up powers.

Ultra Boy lacks the focus and discipline to optimize the use of his powers, that's all. I agree he's not congenitally dumb.

Shady's powers now seem almost exclusively defensive again as compared to Umbra's dark field, which could cause physical pain and, by the end of the series, even kill. The defensive effect seems greater than pre-Crisis, however, as she was shown aborbing Lightning Lad's bolts. She did use them offensively once, against Star Boy.

Star Boy isn't a "portable black hole" yet but he was shown downing both Ultra Boy and Karate Kid. Nor has he suffered from those irritating power fluctuations.

I feel Light Lass always had the potential to use her anti-grav powers as she does presently, except for the psychological barriers.

In the old days, Saturn Girl was able to quell an entire rioting *city* and communicate with the population of an entire world to prep them for evacuation.

There was a point preCrisis where quite a few Legionnaires ramped up to planetary scale effects, such as Shadow Lass blotting out a planets sun, while Sun Boy hung in space mimicing a fake sun, to make space dragons fly away from an inhabited system while they repaired the high-tech beacon they previously used to trick the dragons.

Cosmic Boy went mental at one point as well, I think after one of his parents died or something, dropped his Legion Flight Ring and flew off on the planet's magnetic fields, pulled a ship out of the sky and started killing the perps with the comic-book 'iron in your blood' crap before coming to his senses.

Of course these were the days when Superman and Green Lantern could move planets, so it was power creep all over the comics-verse.

I kinda like the Shady of Superboy's Legion, able to wield a tangible mystical 'darkforce' like stuff. Sort of like the cartoon version of Raven.