2 members (Starbucks Kid, Starbucks Kid, Starbucks Kid, stile86, Starbucks Kid, stile86, stile86),
13
Murran Spies, and
6
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Previous Thread |
|
Next Thread
|
|
Legion Creators
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,104
Leader
|
OP
Leader
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,104 |
I was hoping you guys could help me fill this out. I was trying to come up with a definitive list of which Legionnaires were created by who, and this is what I came up with, based on wikipedia, memory and extrapolation. If anybody can help complete or correct this, I'd appreciate it.
Andromeda: Keith Giffen, Al Gordon and Tom and Mary Bierbaum Atmos: Paul Levitz and Greg Larocque Blok: Gerry Conway and Joe Staton Blood Claw: Tom and Mary Bierbaum and Stuart Immonen Bouncing Boy: Jerry Siegel and Jim Mooney Brainiac 5: Jerry Siegel and Jim Mooney Calamity King: Edmond Hamilton and Curt Swan Catspaw: Tom and Mary Bierbaum and Chris Sprouse Chameleon Boy: Jerry Siegel and Jim Mooney Chemical King: Jim Shooter and Curt Swan Chlorophyll Kid: Edmond Hamilton and John Forte Color Kid: Edmond Hamilton and Curt Swan Colossal Boy: Jerry Siegel and Jim Mooney Computo: Paul Levitz and Keith Giffen Cosmic Boy: Otto Binder and Al Plastino Crystal Kid: Bob Cohen Dawnstar: Paul Levitz and Mike Grell Dragonmage: Tom and Mary Bierbaum and Chris Sprouse Dream Boy: Mark Waid and Barry Kitson Dream Girl: Edmond Hamilton and John Forte Echo: Element Lad: Edmond Hamilton and John Forte Ferro Lad: Jim Shooter Fire Lad: Edmond Hamilton and John Forte Firefist: Tom and Mary Bierbaum and Stuart Immonen Flederweb: Tom and Mary Bierbaum and Stuart Immonen Gates: Tom McCraw, Mark Waid and Lee Moder Gear: Tom Peyer, Tom McCraw and Scott Kolins Impulse: Al Gordon Infectious Lass: Dave Cockrum Invisible Kid: Jerry Siegel and Jim Mooney Invisible Kid II: Paul Levitz and Keith Giffen Karate Kid: Jim Shooter Karate Kid II: Paul Levitz and ?? Kid Quantum: Tom and Mary Bierbaum and David A. Williams Kid Quantum II: Kinetix: Tom McCraw, Mark Waid and Lee Moder Kono: Keith Giffen and Tom and Mary Bierbaum Light Lass: Edmond Hamilton and John Forte Lightning Lad: Otto Binder and Al Plastino Magnetic Kid: Edmond Hamilton and John Forte Magno: Roger Stern, Tom McCraw and Jeff Moy Matter-Eater Lad: Jerry Siegel and John Forte Mon-El: Robert Bernstein and George Papp Monstress: Tom Peyer, Tom McCraw and Lee Moder Neon: Al Gordon Nightwind: Rob Harris Phantom Girl: Jerry Siegel and Jim Mooney Polar Boy: Edmond Hamilton and John Forte Porcupine Pete: Dave Cockrum Princess Projectra: Jim Shooter Quislet: Paul Levitz and Steve Lightle Reflecto: Reflex: Keith Giffen, Al Gordon and Tom and Mary Bierbaum Saturn Girl: Otto Binder and Al Plastino Shadow Lass: Jim Shooter and Curt Swan Shikari: Dan Abnett, Andy Lanning and Olivier Coipel Shrinking Violet: Jerry Siegel and Jim Mooney Spider Girl: Jim Tillery, Jerry Siegel and John Forte Star Boy: Otto Binder and George Papp Stone Boy: Edmond Hamilton and John Forte Storm Boy: Sun Boy: Jerry Siegel and Jim Mooney Superboy: Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster Superboy II: Karl Kesel and Tom Grummett Supergirl: Otto Binder and Al Plastino Superman-X: Tellus: Paul Levitz and Steve Lightle Thunder: Jerry Ordway and Mike Manley Timber Wolf: Edmond Hamilton and John Forte Triplicate Girl: Jerry Siegel and Jim Mooney Tyroc: Cary Bates and Mike Grell Ultra Boy: Jerry Siegel and Curt Swan Veilmist: Tom and Mary Bierbaum and Stuart Immonen Visi-Lad: Paul Levitz and ?? White Witch: E. Nelson Bridwell and Curt Swan Wildfire: Cary Bates and Dave Cockrum XS: Tom McCraw and Jeff Moy
|
|
|
Re: Legion Creators
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,322
Legionnaire!
|
Legionnaire!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,322 |
|
|
|
Re: Legion Creators
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,617
Deputy
|
Deputy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,617 |
Was Mark Waid involved in Xs's creation as well?
Wayne@OZ
|
|
|
Re: Legion Creators
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660
Leader
|
Leader
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,660 |
Weren't the Subs created by readers? Or does that not count?
|
|
|
Re: Legion Creators
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,104
Leader
|
OP
Leader
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,104 |
I think you're thinking of Nightwind, Lamprey and Crystal Kid.
|
|
|
Re: Legion Creators
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,886
Deputy
|
Deputy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,886 |
Technically I think you are both right. The original Subs were all suggested by readers in "Legion Outpost" letter columns, but the writer and artist of the time would probably get credit for fleshing the characters out, backstory and visuals.
So it will probably depend on what your definition of the word "created" is... (yikes, that sounds way too much like President Clinton's defense!)
Craig C.
- Time travel stories are told in chronillogical order.
|
|
|
Re: Legion Creators
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,394
Space Fatigue Survivor
|
Space Fatigue Survivor
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,394 |
Reflecto first appeared in the famous Adult Legion story, along with Chemical King, Shadow Lass, Wanderer Quantum Queen, and Power Boy. All were seen in memorial statue form only. They were all the product of Jim Shooter and Curt Swan.
Celebrating 10+ years of Legion Worldness
|
|
|
Re: Legion Creators
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,394
Space Fatigue Survivor
|
Space Fatigue Survivor
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,394 |
PS - Echo also first appeared in the Adult Legion story as a member of the adult LSV. Jim Shooter and Curt Swan should be credited here as well.
Celebrating 10+ years of Legion Worldness
|
|
|
Re: Legion Creators
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,394
Space Fatigue Survivor
|
Space Fatigue Survivor
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,394 |
PSS - VisiLad appears on an Adventure cover drawn by Curt Swan when Element Lad first applied to the Legion. He should predate Paul Levitz's first writing stint. I would guess Edmond Hamilton would get the credit if he also created Element Lad.
You would probably get better results if this list was placed in the topic under "Need a Legion Reference?..."
Celebrating 10+ years of Legion Worldness
|
|
|
Re: Legion Creators
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,898
Wanderer
|
Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,898 |
|
|
|
Re: Legion Creators
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,898
Wanderer
|
Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,898 |
Plus, Dave didn't "create" Infectious Lass and Porcupine Pete. He just designed them based on Cary Bate's script.
|
|
|
Re: Legion Creators
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 54
Honorary
|
Honorary
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 54 |
Well, designing a character's costume deserves co-creation credit (especially in the case of Infectious Lass... those mucus-dripping sleeves make the character). It would be most accurate to say Porcupine Pete and Infectious Lass were created by Bates and Cockrum.
Speaking of which, I think all the Shooter creations should probably be credited to just Shooter, not Shooter/Swan. Shooter laid out the stories, so I would presume that means he, not Swan, designed the costumes for characters like Shadow Lass and Chemical King.
|
|
|
Re: Legion Creators
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,898
Wanderer
|
Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,898 |
That's fine. I'm just stating what Dave had said about those two + Molecule Master.
|
|
|
Re: Legion Creators
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 29,461
Time Trapper
|
Time Trapper
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 29,461 |
Karate Kid II: Paul Levitz and Steve Lightle, if I recall correctly.
The childhood friend Exnihil never had.
|
|
|
Re: Legion Creators
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,994
Legionnaire!
|
Legionnaire!
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,994 |
Some character's are missing like Kent Shakespeare, Ivy, Celeste, Bounty, Sade, Jewel, Umbra and Inferno. Some were reconceptions but I think that the differences are great enough to merit credit.
I could be wrong, of course.
A singin' and a dancin' along the way.
JosephPrince.org
|
|
|
Re: Legion Creators
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 584
Active
|
Active
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 584 |
Of those that Candle mentions I seem to remember that Kent, Celeste and Bounty were all created by Al Gordon
|
|
|
Re: Legion Creators
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 165
Substitute
|
Substitute
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 165 |
While this list is a nice idea, it really oversimplifies the way that comic book characters are "created." For example, Mort Weisinger's name appears nowhere on the list, and many, many Legion stories were plots that Mort told his authors to write. If a character appeared for the first time in one of those stories, then wouldn't that character have originated with Mort? Also missing is E. Nelson Bridwell's name, who was Mort's assistant and most likely the guy that wrote all of those letter columns. So when characters like Polar Boy were culled from reader suggestions, it was probably Nelson that did the culling. From there, an artist designed them.
The assumption being made here is that a story begins with a writer, and therefore the character begins there, too. Often times, the writer is the second man in, and even when he's the first, his story is often rewritten by his editor before the artist even sees it. Editors back then were even more involved than they are today, and they're pretty involved today. They do more than just check for spelling mistakes; more often than not, they're the ones driving the story and the writer is just following instructions. Sad, but often true. That doesn't mean the writer isn't creative, or doesn't make great-tasting lemonade, but if we're talking about where a character started, then the editor has to be given his due.
Projectra, Karate Kid, and Ferro Lad are the only Legionnaires originated by Jim Shooter. Shadow Lass and Chemical King were characters submitted to Weisinger by George Vincent and Mike Rickford, http://books.google.ca/books?id=5iFklF_oCMgC&pg=PP2&lpg=PP2&dq="best+of+the+legion+outpost"&source=bl&ots=osidGJxh-b&sig=U1tsVPriTrfGayUxUvdnee4z4U8&hl=en&ei=fWPeSr2NLYPj8Qbptu1l&s a=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CAwQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=chemical%20king&f=false (click where it says Page 12) where George (who is still active in Legion email lists today) explains that they even designed the costumes. The only character on that Adult Legion cover that started with Shooter was Ferro Lad. Why? Because the rest (minus Superman) hadn't appeared yet, which was the whole point of the cover. That made them throw-away characters, and whenever Weisinger needed a throw-away character (Legion reject, Legion Sub, etc.) he used reader suggestions because it made the readers feel like the book belonged to them. It was smart, and it worked.
Another thing to consider is which co-creator was the dominant force. Tellus and Quislet originated with Steve Lightle, and Paul Levitz fleshed them out. In the case of Quislet, he departed entirely from Steve's intentions for the character. Is it accurate to give Steve second billing for them? And while Dave Cockrum was right that Cary Bates wrote Infectious Lass and Porcupine Pete into a script, he was unaware that they originated as suggestions from fans. Dave's perspective in this instance is the same as Jim Mooney's in that when Jim got a Supergirl script that called for a never-before-seen Legionnaire, Jim just made a costume up. In some instances, the look may have defined the character, but second billing would be accurate in those cases.
A much more interesting list would be one of Legion villains. Now there is a place where the writer would, in all likelihood, have been the first man in. We know that Shooter's villains originated with him, and I even ran design sketches in The Legion Companion which prove it. That's where the author's creativity can really be measured somewhat objectively.
|
|
|
Re: Legion Creators
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141
Not much between despair and ecstacy
|
Not much between despair and ecstacy
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 24,141 |
Thanks for clarifying the relationship between creators, editors, and characters, Glen.
Things get even harder to pin down when characters change over decades. Is the Timber Wolf of the 1970s (feral look) the same character who debuted in ADVENTURE # 327? Even his name is different.
Then, of course, you have the reboot and characters who are the same yet not the same. Who gets credit for "creating" Leviathan with his new name, costume, and bad-ass attitude? The original creators of Colossal Boy or someone else?
So, in order to be thoroughly objective and accurate, we need to define exactly what makes a character that particular character: the name, the costume, the powers, the (ever-changing) personality, or some combination?
|
|
|
Re: Legion Creators
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,060
Long live the Legion!
|
Long live the Legion!
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,060 |
Originally posted by Glen Cadigan: In the case of Quislet, he departed entirely from Steve's intentions for the character. I'd be interested in hearing more about this, being not-a-fan of Quislet. Perhaps Lightle's original version would have worked better for me?
|
|
|
Re: Legion Creators
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,898
Wanderer
|
Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,898 |
|
|
|
Forums14
Topics21,076
Posts1,050,775
Legionnaires1,731
|
Most Online53,886 Jan 7th, 2024
|
|
There are no members with birthdays on this day. |
|
Posts: 4,994
Joined: August 2003
|
|
|
|