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Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,898
Wanderer
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OP
Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,898 |
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,898
Wanderer
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OP
Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,898 |
This series is going to go down in history as such a display of spreading out 1 or 2 pages of story into 7-8 pages, rinse and repeat.
So many wasted opportunities for some amazing adventures.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,366
Legionnaire!
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Legionnaire!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,366 |
Thanks for posting this, Nighty. I agree completely.
The pages that we see on this preview - the opening 7 pages (I'm assuming of 23) of the last issue of the mini - are pages we should have seen in issue 3 or 4.
They have to jam the resolution of this, with all 30-something characters, in another 14 pages. I'm really intrigued by what I see here, but it needs to come to an end pretty quickly.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 125
Substitute
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Substitute
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 125 |
Imagine if this mini-series started with this issue. This would have been a great opening, with the Legion and League trying to backtrack and figure it all out in following issues.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,845
Time Trapper
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Time Trapper
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 12,845 |
This....is it? I mean, there's what, 13 pages of story left?
You can bet it'l be a quick semi-wrap that will spin into something else that doesn't get the job done.
The original adventure stories would have told this and a second story in the same issue as well.
I've tried not to be to negative about this. Someone told me I was damning with faint praise for the most part. But come on...this is the big wrap? I know there are more pages, but for all this...three years starting with Rose and Thorn...and all we are is here?
Nah, man. 5YL wasn't my favorite, but it beats the hell outta this.
Damn you, you kids! Get off my lawn or I'm callin' tha cops!
Something pithy!
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85,150
Unseen, not unheard
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Unseen, not unheard
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85,150 |
Nothing much has been done with Rose and Thorn either... She's just kinda there.
Sadly, this phrase applies to most of the characters in this Legion... and in this mini so far... they're just kinda... there
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 125
Substitute
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Substitute
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 125 |
13 pages left to: - Defeat or confront Vandal Savage - Undo Vandal Savage's timeline - Explain Gold Lantern's ring - Return everyone to the 21st and 31st centuries
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,780
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,780 |
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,366
Legionnaire!
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Legionnaire!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,366 |
I'm okay with that, if you use spoiler tags. I'll likely not be buying it.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,780
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,780 |
Here's what happens. NOTHING. SIX ISSUES OF NOTHING. THREE YEARS OF NOTHING.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,366
Legionnaire!
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Legionnaire!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,366 |
LOL That's not really spoilers.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,898
Wanderer
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OP
Wanderer
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 9,898 |
Ok. This was a rough one. I love the look and the ideas behind this version of the Legion, but it needs a writer that knows how to tell a story on the page. Everything that supposedly happened in this series, happened in Bendis' imagination. We never got any of the stories he was supposed to tell us. And this ending, doesn't make any sense. How did he manage NOT to explain how everyone got back to their proper ages - Magenta Triplicate Girl, Black Adam, Green Arrow, etc. How did an editor say that this was fit to print? Is "Timeline Enforcers" the new Legion status quo that was mentioned? I need a new writer to come in and work with Ryan Sook and make this mean something and tell me some stories worth reading about and spending money on.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,366
Legionnaire!
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Legionnaire!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,366 |
I just have no words - Just like Salu!
3 years, 22 issues, and the only character development Shrinking Violet received was in the Pride Special - and she never received a single word of dialogue the whole time
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,780
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,780 |
I'm just now realizing this run has gone on as long as the pandemic, and it left us with absolutely NOTHING
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,366
Legionnaire!
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Legionnaire!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,366 |
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85,150
Unseen, not unheard
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Unseen, not unheard
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 85,150 |
I guess we are all united in disappointment...
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,780
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,780 |
I don't think Bendis is the man who ruined the Legion. That honor goes to Byrne. I do think however he wrote a very bad and uninspired Legion series and it only proves beyond a doubt that rebooting them yet again was a bad idea
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,159
Devil's Advocate
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Devil's Advocate
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,159 |
And what about Gold Lantern? We were promised an amazing origin story. Where is it?
Watching television is not an activity.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,780
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,780 |
And what about Gold Lantern? We were promised an amazing origin story. Where is it? Not there.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 125
Substitute
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Substitute
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 125 |
No answers to any questions, and even created more questions.
On Vandal Savage and the Great Darkness: How did he obtain the Great Darkness? Where did he obtain the Great Darkness? Who made it, if it was a creation, him or someone else? How did he conquer and harness it, if it was a discovery instead? How did he learn about it? Why does it exist, what purpose does it serve? What is the potential scope of its power, does it only alter timelines, does it warp reality, or do something else? What is the difference between this Great Darkness and the one from Dark Crisis? Why do they have the same name in two different, concurrent stories? Why doesn't it work the same as the Dark Crisis Great Darkness? Why does no one in Dark Crisis mention encountering it? Why is Vandal Savage wiping out the Justice League when he is also a member of the Totality alongside them, since the end of Death Metal? Why don't the Justice League mention this betrayal, especially when he is directly going against the founding purpose of the Totality? How did Vandal Savage get sucked into the Gold Lantern ring without noticing? Where did Vandal get the black ring he wears at the end, and is it connected to Lantern Rings?
On the Gold Lantern and the Oans: What is a Gold Lantern's purpose, which distinguishes it from other lanterns? Why did the Oans make a new lantern type instead of making more Green Lanterns like they've been doing for billions of years? Why was Kala chosen to be the only Gold Lantern, instead of having several? Where do Gold Lantern powers come from, a Gold Lantern battery? What emotional or mental state is a Gold Lantern ring powered by? How is Kala supposed to make a whole Lantern Corp by himself when he just started his job and spent most of the story confused, scared, and making rash choices? Why don't the Oans make more Gold Lanterns themselves instead? Why is everyone trusting the Oans when Brainy made it clear that they could not be trusted and were not what they seemed? Why don't the Oans seem to remember the Justice League? When did Gold Lantern rings gain the power to create fully realistic pocket realities inside of themselves and suck people inside of them? How did the Gold Lantern ring fully contain the Great Darkness inside of it, alongside Vandal Savage? Why don't the Justice Leaguers remember that Gold Lantern rings can contain the Great Darkness, when they encounter it before the Dark Crisis?
Extra: Why don't Jon and Imra continue their relationship, and/or why did they break up? Why don't the Leaguers react to meeting Superman's son's girlfriend/ex? Why don't the Leaguers react to meeting Superman's snotty direct descendant Mon-el? Why do the Leaguers act like they've never been this far into the future when they have, numerous times? Why do the Leaguers consider this version of the 31st century perfect, when the Earth was destroyed? Why don't the Leaguers demand to know how the Earth was destroyed? How does Alan Scott meet a Gold Lantern early in his career and never mention it to any Green Lanterns later? Why does Alan Scott not investigate or mention that massive time anomaly, especially in the modern era where he has the resources and help to do so?
And still...after six issues... Why are the Justice League and the Legion of Superheroes not VERSUS each other when its the title of the book?
Apologies if something was answered in a previous issue, which is a real possibility because so many pages fade from memory as soon as they leave my sight, because each issue is over before I can commit much to memory. I haven't been hate-reading. I swear. It is more that I am bewildered by how badly written and conceived this mini-series, and this entire unwanted reboot, have been. I purposefully read every issue the day it releases. I know what I will be getting. And every time I wonder if my brow can furrow any further. I've reached peak furrow. I look like a chimp trying to work a calculator. How is such an experienced writer responsible for this, with every issue? How does editorial not raise a dozen immediate questions when they get each script? Who does publishing think wants this?
Last edited by Alexander; 09/27/22 02:49 PM.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,780
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,780 |
None of us tried to hate-read it. At least I didn't at the start. I tried to listen to what others were suggesting and gave it a chance, and it was horrible. What makes me madder are the people who gave the high road answers of "it's not for you" or "it's for new readers." I cannot recall a single new fan of the Legion emerging because of this book.
It reached a point where I wasn't even commenting on this to bash it online over on twitter and facebook I was so bored.
I feel sorry for Ryan Sook, Scott Godlewski, and every other artist who wasted their time and energy on this series.
In three years, the only people who made an effort that actually meant something or wasn't being squandered because of Bendis's writing were Rich Bernatovech, Travis Mercer, Devin Grayson, Nick Robles, and ME. And I still regret that we couldn't use the classic Legionnaires, because what was the point of having THIS Brainy and THIS Dawny acknowledged as demisexual and bisexual on panel when no one's likely to use them in the future.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,322
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 7,322 |
Yeah, big disappointment. Not unexpected after the first five issues of nothing except a reveal in the end of the penultimate issue of the main villain with absolutely no clues or recognisable connection to previous events in the series - and then we finish it up this way with still no answer to really what was happening except bad guy got tech from place in future that he used to do it but JL (really just Batman and not the Legion) somehow trick him and trap him with previously unrevealed powers in a way that is unexplained - and we still know next to nothing about Gold Lantern - except he can look startled and unsure what to do a lot.
I think it says something that I managed to summarise the issue without giving away much in the way of spoilers, because there really wasn't anything to spoil. Good guys tricked bad guy and won (in fact tricked him so well that we the reader still don't really know how they did it). No effect on any of the heroes, or the villain, or apparently the universe, in the present or in the future.
Being me I want to finish on a positive. A lot of the art was pretty. I enjoyed a handful of moments between the League and the Legion (although there were also many I didn't). It's just a bit sad that the biggest positive is that at least we still have all those past stories that we still enjoy.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,908
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,908 |
I get the feeling this mini-series was intended to be an attention-grabbing, Legion-boosting project. They built anticipation for a solid new rendition of the Legion's previous Great Darkness story. They promised that the Legion would go to battle against DC's superstar Justice League. They brought in the Lanterns, but with a mysterious new Gold one to discover. There are some writers who could have done something amazing with that. Bendis, though, built a shell and filled it with a crowd of flat-footed characters speaking his awkward banter. The characters told us how cosmic the story was. If we could only have seen it.
The Legion's future is to serve as timestream police and help search for new Gold Lanterns.
And the last page basically tells us that the whole "universe-changing" story and its resolution didn't really matter.
Bendis has some interesting seed ideas. He just can't seem to make a meaningful story out of them.
I've always thought the Legion had as much potential as the X-Men, whose stories play with concepts that are imagination-stretching and with a multitude of characters that are rich in personality and motivation. The Legion is perfect for the same. DC, you don't have to go as complex as the X-Men, but you've got a lot of room to get better with the Legion. If you ever will.
"Everything about this is going to feel different." (Saturn Girl, Legion of Super-Heroes #1)
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,780
Wanderer
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Wanderer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,780 |
I get the feeling this mini-series was intended to be an attention-grabbing, Legion-boosting project. They built anticipation for a solid new rendition of the Legion's previous Great Darkness story. They promised that the Legion would go to battle against DC's superstar Justice League. They brought in the Lanterns, but with a mysterious new Gold one to discover. There are some writers who could have done something amazing with that. Bendis, though, built a shell and filled it with a crowd of flat-footed characters speaking his awkward banter. The characters told us how cosmic the story was. If we could only have seen it.
The Legion's future is to serve as timestream police and help search for new Gold Lanterns.
And the last page basically tells us that the whole "universe-changing" story and its resolution didn't really matter.
Bendis has some interesting seed ideas. He just can't seem to make a meaningful story out of them.
I've always thought the Legion had as much potential as the X-Men, whose stories play with concepts that are imagination-stretching and with a multitude of characters that are rich in personality and motivation. The Legion is perfect for the same. DC, you don't have to go as complex as the X-Men, but you've got a lot of room to get better with the Legion. If you ever will. Then this whole period for the Legion is basically what the X-Men suffered through from House of M to House of X. Which, Bendis also had a large hand in shaping.
Last edited by Sarcasm Kid; 09/27/22 08:47 PM.
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Re: Justice League vs. The Legion of Super-Heroes #6 - Preview and Spoilers
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,366
Legionnaire!
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Legionnaire!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,366 |
I'll be honest. This whole experience has left me even more jaded than usual.
Bendis was teasing about writing this ALL THROUGH 2021. And this is what we ended up with.
He even went on Legion podcasts to promote this and discuss Legion. And this is what we ended up with.
This was written well before Scott and Ryan started drawing this. So did they go back and torpedo this? Was editorial involved at all? Was this a confluence of events that made a shit product?
All I know is that when you do a job, you put your best foot forward in the context of the medium and the environment in which you are working; this establishes your reputation to deliver good work.
In the art department, this was delivered.
If this story were submitted to me as someone evaluating spec scripts for publication, I'd tell them to get the hell out of my damn office.
This is borderline unprofessional IMO.
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