Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes New Bendis Legion: who do we get, who DON'T we get, and how to we feel about it?

Hey, everyone!

first off: to the "thread police", which I don't mean in a derogatory way... I remember reading a set of posts guessing on members from preview photos, but I can't find it now(!), and also I'd like to discuss who does NOT appear to be coming... but if you feel you wanna move this to another thread, feel free.

ANYWAY, one of the things that excites me about the new LSH is that they PRETTY MUCH appear to be respecting the core membership from the classic Adventure thru Levitz run... no major omissions with some exceptions I will get to in a moment. Clearly there will be additions, so far that is part of the mystery... which characters in what we have seen so far are truly new versus just different looks on pre-existing characters.

So, I just got Superman #15 and I think the splash page there appears to be (on purpose, in fact) a complete photo of all members.



However, there is also this very complete looking promo shot, which appears to have two extras:



I think those two images cover almost everyone.

Starting with the now-published Superman #15 Splash page, if we first identify the characters NOT obviously present, that can help us figure out who might be the less obvious characters (also, no obvious/classic character who appears to be missing in the first photo is obviously present in the 2nd one):

Apparently absent:
1) The "canonically dead" Legionnaires - Ferro Lad?, Invisible Kid (though could have had Jacques ... + the standard joke that he is there but invisible) and Chemical King. One coudl argue Karate Kid was canonically dead also, but he died much later, and also dooesn't fit into the paradigm of the first 3 canonically dead legionnaires, which is basically: didn't do much, biggest moment was when they died. (Lyle not as much as the other 2.)

2) NEWER Legionnaires from Late-Levitz and later: we get Blok, but then no White Witch(? or do we?), no Jacques per above, and no Tellus, Quislet, Polar Boy (not really newer as a character), Mag kid, and no one new from TMK/v4 OR from the post-zero hour, several of which had become borderline iconic, namely XS and Gates. Apparently no one new form the last Levitz run either.

3) Missing "Canonical" Legionnaires (minus the canonically dead):
i) Dream Girl
ii) White Witch
iii) Jacques/ IK II
iv) Polar Boy (newer as a member, but definitely a canonical character)
v) XS

Now the only reason I list XS as "canonical" is that, let's face it: the LSH has had *very little* exposure on TV, but is just starting to get some on WB. XS was on Flash and mention of the Legion was attached to her, so it seems like a dumb idea to exclude her when you could bring in an audience from that source. By an even BIGGER token, Dreamer on Supergirl (TV) has been introduced as a major character as an ancestor of Dream Girl, and she's not here? that was an even bigger chance to have a set of people interested up front, excluding her seems like a huge mistake.

SURE, we don't want to be tied to the TV shows' continuity(!), that is not what I am saying, but at least preserve the characters that might have piqued people's (and specifically, new fans'!) interest in the Legion!!!!

ANYWAY, perhaps they may yet appear, and also that brings up the "mystery"characters in our photos. Starting with the Superman 15 (first link above):

1) the yellow or beige female-looking character to the far right... I have NO idea. She actually vaguely looks like Kinetix looked at one point. But given that the preserved characters all seem to be from the classic era, I am guessing maybe White Witch? Could she in fact be Dream Girl? I remain hopeful. I guess she could also be Glorith... but could be anew character as well.

2) Weird little guy between Ultra Boy and Wildfire, below Triplicate Girl: Clearly a new character, I have seen him referred to as "Anthropomorphic lad". I have a weird feeling he might become annoying (to me), like Comet Queen when first introduced, but we will see.

3) In the back, between Star boy and Dawnstar: Obviously some sort of Green Lantern, though perhaps another ring color (gold?).

4) Glowing person Immediately in front of the character above (to Karate Kid's right):Another total mystery. Could ALSO be White Witch, OR Dream Girl. I have seen mentioned that we will get a Dr. Fate character, is this maybe her/him?


NOW, onto the 2nd promo photo, there are two ADDITIONAL mysteries.


5) Helmeted character in front of Blok. could THIS be Dr. Fate instead? Also, looks like it could be a version of Ferro Lad.

Furthermore: The December solicitations

Finally...

6) Green dressed character with skull-looking face in upper-left of 2nd (promo) photo. Actually looks to me like someone from the same planet as Mano! Could maybe be Chemical King? A character related to Deadman?

ANYWAY, I would be interested to hear if anyone has any answers to the mystery characters.

Overall, despite my concern that omitting (apparently) XS and Dream Girl could be huge marketing blunders, I am really pleased that we are getting most of the classic core set back. OF COURSE, that is easy for me to say because that is the version of the Legion *I* grew up with. I empathize with anyone who grew up with a later version and might be frustrated to see a lot of their favorites missing.

As for the hullabaloo about skin colors: as I said elsewhere, I think humans in the far future will be a weighted average (by population size) of the current skin colors we have, as hopefully we eventually globalize and achieve "random mating" across the entire world. (FYI, "random mating" is a genetics term, and simply refers to the idea that your mating choice is independent of the genetic ancestry of your partner. Currently, humans are still much more likely to mate with people of their same race,... though likely largely due to circumstance/geography). Anyway, it looks like this is what they are going for with a lot of characters(!), although coloring is always the vaguest thing in comic, though.

THAT SAID: Princess Projecta's skin color DEFINITELY makes me think they are going to tie her to gem world/Amethyst.

Thanks for reading!

While we wait for the flashing lights... of the Post Mover Van.

Dream Girl is number 15 on Nighty's Super-Handy indexed team pic.
Mysa is number 4

It's possible that Condo is number 8, Lyle is number 32 and Val is 14. At a SUper Push Andrew could be the one behind the Fate mask



1. Colossal Boy
2. Ferret Boy?
3. Blok
4. White Witch
5. Princess Projectra
6. Chameleon Boy
7. Triplicate Girl
8. Chemical King
9. Shadow Lass
10. Ferro Lad
11. Sun Boy
12. Tyroc
13. Bouncing Boy
14. Karate Kid
15. Dream Girl
16. Mon-El
17. Saturn Girl
18. Shrinking Violet
19. Superboy
20. Brainiac Five
21. Phantom Girl
22. Lightning Lad
23. Dawnstar
24. Cosmic Boy
25. Element Lad
26. Light Lass
27. Star Boy
28. Ultra Boy
29. Wildfire
30. Matter-Eater Lad
31. Timber Wolf
32. Invisible Kid
33. ???

whoa, THANK YOU(!!!!), Thoth Lad, just what I wanted to know(!), and also (in terms of Nura and Mysa), just what I wanted to hear! Do we know if those are "educated guesses/group consensus", or was there insider confirmation on Nura and Mysa?

I can't believe someone noticed that rub-out for #32.. indeed could be Lyle (or Jacques, but I'd think Lyle as there is a bent toward the originals). Pretty cool if in fact we did NOT lose the "canonical dead", although if #10 is the Dr. Fate character, it is pretty wishful thinking for it to be Andrew.

ALSO (bad me!!!), I completely forgot about Tyroc (yikes!) in my own list of missings, and hadn't thought about #12 being Tyroc. Could he be Tyroc AND a (whatever color) Lantern? Or if he's a Lantern, couldn't it also be Jacques?

#8 seems like a stretch for Condo, other than the color Green, though if all the other members are as you say, he'd be the glaring omission. And if that IS Condo, then (very cool!) that would be EVERY Legionnaire up until right before the "canonical" Levitz run leading up to Great Darkness Saga, I think that started with the first Legion annual? (that introduced Jacques?).

Unless I am forgetting someone? (It's possible... I forgot Tyroc before!). Not of course counting the many "false pretenses" members such as Nemesis Kid. And of course Supergirl. And poor Brek never was a member until much later....

Also interesting: If your list is true, then ONLY "Ferret Boy" would be new. And could he be Proty?

#33 is the person taking the photo (but is that necessary in the 31st century? it's barely necessary now!), could be Marla or some other non-member associate... like Flynt Brojj! (that'd be cool!)

FINALLY - I just now noticed that #26 has a tell-tale feather... so is indeed Light Lass (not Lightning.)

Anyway, thanks again for taking the time to enlighten me, Thoth Lad!

Nighty's latest update (that I could see) can be found here. It's also the thread where the latest information can be found on the relaunch, and was probably the one you were after.

Dream Girl is a definite is a definite. White Witch not confirmed and there's still plenty to make informed guesses at.

As I've said before, it appears to be pretty close to the pre-Baxter line-up, but with the most of the resigned members active (Bouncing Boy, Triplicate Girl, Matter-Eater Lad) and a few new people (Monster Boy, Kid Fate, Skeleton Guy, Gold Lantern).

Missing appear to be the historically deceased characters (Invisible Kid, Chemical Kid, Ferro Lad) and, weirdly, the two historically black characters (Invisible Kid II, Tyroc), which puts an unfortunate twist on the race-changing controversy. Plus Supergirl.

I'm actually betting that one of the Invisible Kids will be there, possibly with them leaving it ambiguous which one it is for awhile.

Ahh, thanks Thoth Lad... that explains why i couldn't find it (page 41 out of a thread now at 59...I think I had even posted afterward, but still couldn't find it searching from both ends...plus I was mis-remembering that it was in one of the monthly preview threads...)

ANYWAY, per my comments earlier on Nura (vis a vis the Supergirl TV series) , I am glad she is one of the "confirmed" ones, although she also must be pretty different form the TV depictions. On the other hand:


So probably the canonically dead AREN'T "resurrected" (except maybe Invisible Kid), although it is possible. Hmmm, I wonder if the reason they did a whole print recall to darken Garth and Ayla is because it originally WAS in fact going to be everyone except Tyroc and Jacques, and then someone noticed that and said "Dude !", and so then they scrambled to fix. It's a logical explanation, anyway.

But Gold Lantern (heh "dazzle Danny") could still easily be Troy Stewart or Jacques Foccart.

A lot of the creative decisions have left me shaking my head. As discussed on this thread before, why leave out Legionnaires of colour (Tyroc, Invisible Kid II, even Gear and the Quantum Kids) and then backpedal and modify many traditionally "white" members (Lightning Lad, Light Lass, Shrinking Violet)? I mean really, what was the point?

I get that Bendis and Sook want to put their own stamp on this iteration of the Legion, but needless changes are only going to be met with hand-to-mouth controversy. Not to mention that whole re-print of Superman/Supergirl comics drama nonsense.
I guess that might be their intention all along, right? It makes the public notice.

Why not focus on the STORIES you're about to tell us? Those will make you great ….. AND, as creators, make you memorable to all of us. Sure it might be a cool idea to add stuff like a Lantern and Jr. Dr. Fate in the ranks, but that is interesting and a new spin to what we've seen before. I personally like this twist. I really, really do!
So this creative idea makes sense and makes us WANT to check it out, as long time readers.

......... But a racially ambiguous Shrinking Violet? What's your point guys?



Just sayin' !

Yeah, on one level I don't have problem with changing races per se (insert criminal, apelike being, or even a woman panel), but changing races while neglecting all of the pre-existing characters of those races rubs me the wrong way. But we'll see what happens.

^Agreed.

I agree 100%. However, I don't think they planned it that way, in fact I think we have stumbled on an explanation made even more likely by the fact that it is one of the few scenarios that fits the bizarre set of events around the release.


What I suspect is that they established their set of "canonical" characters to include, and left ou Tyroc and Jacqus, either on purpose or un-intentionally (I cannot throw stones at the latter, having forgotten about Tyroc myself at the top of this thread!)

Sure there were other characters of color, but as you point out, leaving out these two omits pretty much the only black characters of the period from which membership was drawn.

Probably someone realized this at the last minute, when it was too late to change anything substantively... but the ONE thing that could be chanbed fairly quickly is coloring. So, they picked some major characters (Garth and ayla are 2-for-1 as siblings) and re-colored them black.
What else could explain the last-minute recall on printing?

the end results is still irritating, but I think the bottom line is that they effed up and then tried to fix it... as anyone who has been in that situation knows, that rarely if ever comes off as smoothly as you would like.

OF course, if #12 turns out to be Tyroc, that theory goes out the window.

Maybe Tyroc will show up later as a white ginger!

Modeled, of course, on whichever artist's rendition of Banshee is Bendis's favorite!

Ooh, Tyroc and Dragonwing can both show up as white people, and they can pull a reverse-sneckie and have Gates and Tellus be humanoids!

I am really bummed that Tellus and Gates are missing, since they were both alien Members. This cast is way too human. Also, I think the one you labeled Tyroc is actually Gold Lantern. Not sure why they skipped Tyroc. That’s three members (Tellus, Tyroc and Gates) from Legion Lost that have been omitted. Pete Woods did an awesome job finally capturing Tyroc’s sonic abilities in Legion Lost. I fully expected it to be replicated here.

My guess is that #2 is Timber Wolf and #31 who looks like he should be Timber Wolf is some new character entirely. I hope not though. The #2 concept is down right ugly if it is Timber Wolf.

#31 is confirmed to be Timber Wolf. #2 is Monster Boy. And #32 is supposed to be by Dawnstar apparently.

Not 23 for Dawny?

No, Dawny is 23. But the character thought to be 32 is standing closer to Dawny.

Oops. Missed the "by" when looking on my phone. Having now read it, I see...or rather...

Note: Gold Lantern could ALSO be Tyroc in the sense of being Troy Stewart. In FACT... Why not say Troy Stewart is a descendant of John Stewart, which in turn leads to a "Lanternship"? They even have the same last name! (which actually seems unlikely after 1000 years, but perhaps that is TOO much realism).

for that matter, the heretofore unseen Invisible Kid COULD still be Jacques, in which case the notion that they included "every Legionnaire up until Great Darkness, except the canonically dead (by that point)" would still hold. Granted that is still an arbitrary cutoff leaving out many peoples' later favorites, but it is still a logical way to define the "traditional" Legion.

Of course, if THAT is true, then we (well, ME anyway) are back to being mystified as to why they did the Garth/Ayla 11th hour re-coloring. Perhaps it was, as some have suggested, a decision to tie them into Black Lightning...

finally: we definitely DO get a lot of alien-looking legionnaires this go-around in the sense that a lot of characters who previously looked human (albeit still declared as aliens) are now physiologically different form humans (Star Boy, Jeckie, Element Lad, and White Witch and Dream Girl (#4 & 15), PLUS we get #8 and #2). But it is true that they are mostly Star-Trek style "slightly altered humanoid" rather than completely alien looking like Gates or Tellus. We still have Blok, though, and #s 8 and 2 ARe pretty weird looking... and somewhere I think I saw that Dr. Fate might get multiple arms?...

Invisible Kid is confirmed to be Lyle. But since we don't see him, he could be black or Asian or Latinx or something other than white, which I'm fine with.

I prefer Lyle to Jacques anyway. He always seemed to never know what he was doing and just luck his way through things, I prefer the scientist and stealthy version of an Invisible Kid. So let's hope Bendis keeps him in character.

This Legion does seem to have the possibility of more connections to the contemporary DCU. Rose going to the future, Superboy, Fate, Gold Lantern...


We shall see...

Hawkman. Aquaman. Batman and Robin. "Whatever happened to the Green Lanterns?" All promised in solicits.

Just like King Harold, Duke William, Edith of Sussex and Mathilda of Flanders are still influencing us today.

https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/learn/1066-and-the-norman-conquest/the-people-of-1066/

OMG, yes, I just got Millennium #2 today., Lyle indeed(!), I am glad... and wouldn't it also be funny if we NEVER see him, and so his color/ethnicity is irrelevant (as it should be!)?

Also, it is hilarious/ironic that the smudge I marveled at everyone noticing (#32 in the pic) was NOT in fact where Lyle was in the photo. An INTERESTING possibility is that maybe the #32 smudge IS still real, and that we might ALSO have Jacques?

Since we do have Lyle now, that makes Andrew and Condo stick out more as being left out... could it maybe then be that #8 is Condo after all, and the Dr. Fate masked character (#10) Andrew Nolan? that would be SO cool!

#8 can be seen in the background on the cover of issue 1 of LOSH coming next month and has already been confirmed to be a new character and not Chemical King by Mr Sook in the comments of his instagram page about the cover: https://www.instagram.com/p/B1O2m5UhJdv/

Also, #10 has been confirmed as female, so unlikely to be Andrew Nolan unless he's been gender-swapped.