Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes GDS #3 in Newsarama's fan-voted list of DC's best stories

http://www.newsarama.com/29630-10-b...l-time-according-to-you-the-readers.html

I think this is an interesting result considering short memories and the overall decline of the Legion in recent times.

I think, all in all, this is a surprisingly good list as evidenced by the exclusion of Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis or anything from the New 52. It's not MY list exactly, and it should include something from Alan Moore's Swamp Thing--but it's serviceable and refreshingly bereft of being too loaded down by "events". I'm both pleased by GDS's inclusion and high-ranking and impressed that Waid's "Return of Barry Allen" beat out anything Geoff Johns did with Wally. I disagree that the storyline was the apex of Waid's run, but it shows people have better taste than I often give them credit for. It's ironic that it's a story that effectively put Barry to rest and turned the page for Wally considering the direction DC ultimately went with.

YAY! That's great news!

"The Return of Barry Allen" was one of the first DC storylines I followed. Loved the story, loved Greg LaRocque's art and hated that he was gone after that. I've come to appreciated Mike Wieringo, and in hindsight he really improved by leaps and bounds, but at the time it was jarring.

And for the record, I consider "Terminal Velocity" to be the apex of the Waid Flash era.

Oh fun! Top Ten lists.

My reading has been very Legion Centric but I can come up with a list I think.


NF and KC I've read so many times, 1A and 1B. Both make great use of the medium.
Crisis and it's heir
Flash of Two Worlds, I'd have to have it on my list.
Five Years Later
Earth War
Emerald Dawn.
Universo Project
Invasion not least because it spawned one of my favorite characters ever.
Death of Superman

and a TBD

pretty sure I've read all on their lists and the only ones I could recount anything from memory would be NF, Crisis, GDS, and KC. Only one I don't recall particularly liking would be Sinestro's War.

Paul mentioned it on facebook and I went through the list. Some things I would have kept, like GDS and a few others, and some things I would have jettisoned, but over all, not bad.

Yeah, Rick. I was especially impressed, as I said, with the overall lack of dreck on the list. It's not exactly MY list, but I'm glad there was little "flash in the pan"-type choices. I like that GDS was not forgotten, despite the LSH title not being published now for 2 years (plus, it's the oldest story on the list, at that).

I may have been even more impressed by "The Return of Barry Allen" making it. It shows that Wally's recent return reflects that he still has a big fan base and that people haven't forgotten Mark Waid's character-defining work with him. That arc was the symbolic passing of the torch from Barry to Wally. Honestly, they needn't have ever brought Barry back because wally filled those shoes so well and was a character with more depth than Barry ever had. It's too bad DC ever got away from all of that. Bringing Wally back is a step in the right direction, but I doubt we will ever truly get back what we had.

It's also interesting that about half of the list is comprised of stories set outside of continuity.

All 10 are great (and certainly there are others that could easily be on this list), but Kingdom Come, The Great Darkness Saga, and New Frontier are among my all-time favorites.

Now I need to pick up that New Frontiers thing by Darwyn Cooke, it sounds pretty cool.

I'd rate the Universo Project (or even Superboy's Legion) above Great Darkness Saga, personally, but GDS is probably going to always win out because of Darkseid's involvement.

The Judas Contract definitely was a good choice. It's probably the most powerful four issue run of that Titans era (although there were some great standalone's, like 'Who is Donna Troy?').

Seconding whoever mentioned that Alan Moore's Swamp Thing run (which introduced Constantine, a character who took off in his own right) should also be up there. Some great stories, particularly in the war of heaven and hell (American Gothic?).

I have a feeling that this is because Moore's Swamp Thing has been retroactively placed in the Vertigo stable. I don't mind the trades having the Vertigo stamp on them, but his Swamp Thing was most definitely set in the DCU and should be considered as such in lists like these.

Of course, there's the danger (?) that the list would have been taken up several slots and hindered overall diversity in representation. But if that ended up being the case, it would be hard not to argue that all those stories were absolute art.

I think it's somewhat telling that no single-issue stories made the list. DC has had a number of completely outstanding standalones like "Who Is Donna Troy?" (and to name a few more: LSH 300 or Annual #1, Titans' "A Day in the Life" & "To Kill a Legend" from Detective #500 off the top of my head). It shows a fan bias toward longer stories, perhaps giving them more gravitas in their eyes.

And, yeah, Titans and Legion really seem to be broken down into those two storylines to kind of pidgeonhole them as the best they have to offer. There's no doubt, though, the splash that they made for a wider audience.

Something else else which bothers me to no end.

Like Set, I rate "The Universo Project" higher than "GDS."

I also rate the Titans' "Raven Berserk" storyline higher than "The Judas Contract."

At least "Raven Berserk" will definitely be reprinted in the upcoming NTT vol. 5 trade. "The Universo Project" continues to lie unreprinted.

I'll admit that GDS is my personal favorite LSH story overall. Though, for me, it's because I had just started reading the book a few issues before (with the seeds for it already being planted in those issues). So it's really informed my Legion fandom for that reason. I sure love a whole lot of other LSH stuff along with it, though.



As you know, I'm getting the NTT trades and experiencing them pretty much for the first time, so I'll be looking forward to this.

However, I must admit that I bought and read Judas Contract looong ago, so it's hard to deny its influence.

Honestly, I like Earthwar Saga better than GDS, and I've mentioned that to Paul. But, I realize that it's a personal taste and GDS simply connects with more people.

As for stories on the list, I probably would have gone with the first issue of Batman/Detective after they made the switch from wertham nonsense to the renewed Batman as Dark Avenger.

I would also have added Hard-Travelling Hero's over a couple of the others.

I certainly understand your feelings about "GDS", Lardy. There really is nothing quite like first love. I just don't like the way that Lightle's and LaRocque's contributions to Levitz's run have been neglected. There were two trades, years ago, which reprinted the first 12 issues of the Baxter series, but I have to admit that, as pretty as issues 7-12 are to look at, they're rather dull, and sales were probably not good, which is why we didn't get any more Baxter trades. The series didn't really find its second wind until the Timber Wolf on Lythl issue, 13, followed immediately by the new recruits issue, 14.

Re: "Judas Contract", I haven't re-read it for a while, but I remember the last time I did, I found it to be very much of its time, while "Raven Berserk" still feels fresh and exciting. And BTW, I had forgotten that "Raven Berserk" actually was collected years ago, under the title "The Coming of Terra" (IIRC), but it's out of print now. Thank the Gods for the new NTT trades.

Speaking of things that have never been collected, Earthwar is one of those. It's a shame because it could have been in the next Archive. Also, a shame because I've never read it.



The same thing happened, I guess, with the excellent hardcover from a few years ago that collected GDS (and a bunch of issues leading up to it). DC then published the following hardcover entitled "The Curse" that picked up from 297. I have to assume it didn't do too well because I would have loved to have seen them continue with the Tales stories and then Baxter in that gorgeous, top-quality format. I suppose readers found the content of "The Curse" similarly underwhelming as in the second volume you mention, though I'd disagree.



Again, in readers' defense, Judas Contract is extremely significant, not only for the dramatic Terra saga but also for it featuring Dick becoming Nightwing. The significance of his leaving Robin behind forever cannot be understated.

Generations is an out-of continuity storyline I like alot. A chore since it's by Byrne.

Good point. I do think it's kind of a shame that Dick's rising and advancing was overshadowed by the uglier stuff involving Terra.

Never read TT (and rarely Batman) other than this story in trade. Why was the part of him becoming Nightwing (or leaving Robin or both) significant?

Well, it: a) symbolized Dick growing both out of his mentor's shadow and growing up in general, and b) in a larger sense, it showed real change was possible in the DCU with more to come.

Even after all that's been retconned and done away in the decades since, Dick has remained Nightwing (or at least not-Robin) ever since.

For me, it was the moment that DC put a stamp on itself as not just being 'the other Marvel' and being willing to do something new and different and kind of out-of-left-field for this comicbook serial storytelling medium, they changed something and never looked back. Tons of characters temporarily change names or costumes or adopt new gimmicks (Spider-Man's black costume, Captain America becomes 'the Captain', Superman splits into two energy Supermen, etc.) but such things are *always* reset back to 'normal.'

Dick Grayson grew up, and will never 'be fixed' and reverted to Robin again, and that's the sort of thing that comic book companies tend to shy away from. Actual, lasting change. Character development that actually changes the status quo and 'affects the brand' (not just a new costume, to sell some new action figures, but a new *name*).

It was around that time that other dramatic changes were happening, such as Barry being replaced by Wally, Hal being replaced by John Stewart, Infinity, Inc. making a run at replacing the older JSA, etc. and it seemed like anything was possible, while Marvel would keep using their same stable of characters from the 40s-60's pretty much forever, humorously highlighted by the eternal eight year old, Franklin Richards, who, unlike DC characters, would never be allowed to age a day.

Obviously that's changed a bit. (Hal and Barry are back, and Infinity Inc is long forgotten, while the JSA have been dragged back into the spotlight. But Dick remains Nightwing, or 'Grayson,' and has not be dragged back into the short pants, no matter how much Didio has groused about not 'getting' the character and wanting to kill him off.)

Well I certainly like the GDS as well, but I always thought that the stories leading up to it and coming afterwards were great, maybe even better. The GDS is the event, but it becomes a saga by putting it into the greater canvas painted by stories like "A cold and lonely corner in hell".

This is a great period of the Legion, reprinted in a wonderful HC in the meantime. Great art, great covers, great story, great characterisation. Nearly every Legionnaire had its own story going. That's what the Legion is about.

Happy to see that many people seem to remember this time fondly. Though I did not care for some of the other listed stories like "New Frontier", it certainly comes as a surprise that a rather monor franchize like the Legion comes in number 3 ...

Sign of the times. We are now a full generation or more of readers raised on TPBs, which gave rise to "Write for the TPB", where EVERY story is at least 5-6 issues long. Most voters would be hardwired to think only of long-form stories. Another legacy, in a way, of GDS. Not that there weren't multi-part stories before it, but GDS really took the idea of a 5 part "Saga" and sold it hard, and was a massive success that was then followed.

Overall I like the list - it's not about the showy creators or the big sellers or the "canon"

There are lots of done-in-one issues missing

BUT I appreciate the attention paid to Kingdom Come, Flash (which was one of the best Flash stories I had ever read at that point - and I find Barry boring), New Frontiers, and of course GDS

Makes me think I should teach Kingdom Come next time I teach comics

It's interesting how Kingdom Come, written as a scathing indictment of 90's excesses, trends and tropes, is just as relevant, if not more so, today.