Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Long Live the Legion! New Appreciation for Legion Series 3, the five year gap

Well, after rummaging thru some old stacks of comic books, I reread some of the Giffen stories with the infamous 5 year gap. I have to admit I really hated the art and style when I first read it but while rereading it, I realized that they had a grittier and much more in depth tone. Any issue with Matter Eater Lad

It does seem that some legionnaires were created with a "Kick Me" sign embedded in their backs....

Nice to read that you found some new appreciation for the 5 years later stories; the early ones are some of my favourites - and I agree that the ending was melancholy (and disappointing!). Most people seem to love them or hate them; don't think many have actually changed their opinion over time - even a little!

I think no era has quite the combination of incredibly positive aspects and massive gaffes that the GiffBaum era had. I find it quite hard to say that I like it, just because there are so many things that I really hate in it, but there are those things (the Tenzil issues being an excellent example) that I just love SO much that they almost make up for the stuff I don't.

I definitely would have preferred to see what new creators would have done with this world rather than the total eradication of the old continuity that we got.

Jumping the gap so saved this series for me. I was getting older, the maturation of the book just worked for me. There had been plenty of great stories through the Levitz years, but none required me to think beyond eighth grade.

Suddenly all was new again. There were pains, watching changes and elimination of characters I really enjoyed. SW6 was a refreshing retro feeling for me that made great use of Dominator talents, but I am really glad this one was not allowed to play out. I just can't imagine a satisfying result.

I would have been very happy with two books, Giffen's post gap Legion and a flashback to Adventure days book. Much preferable to that post ZH reboot.

I came aboard as a full time legion fan with the 5 year gap stories. I am still a huge fan of the first 40 or so issues. I even thought the nine panel grid worked

I came in on the middle of the five year gap issues and spent a great deal of time putting things together. So I might have a slightly different perspective here. Not a better but slightly different one. It took a while to get up to speed but it was interesting to see how they matured. The problems of an older age group added new depth to the characters. I liked the SW6 Legionnaires. Nice counter to those who didn't like the older characters.

I must be unusual in that I loved the post reboot/post ZH issues. I've followed thing up thru Legion Lost and then dropped out for a while out of a mistaken fear of the Legion dropping into "grim and gritty" territory.

I think since I've come back. I've also reacquired the issues since #1 of the post Legion Lost series. I think it shows a good blend of optimism that has always been an important part of the Legion. And more realistic storytelling. People seem a bit more "realistic" or as realistic as can be expected for a comic book. Set in future times that is.

As a Star Boy fanatic, I know how some Legionnaires are always unlucky.

I hated the 5YG when it was ongoing, but looking back some of it was quite good. There are still massive problems with it - the clones stuff was terrible, as waere the last 20 or so issues and blowing the Earth up etc.

But some of it was good (wracks brain...)

My really got into LSH around the end of volume 3 (Levitz/Giffen) and the beginning of volume 4 (TMK), and for me LSH v.4 was one of the densest, most convoluted, most challenging comics I'd ever read.

I loved it.

It definitely has some problems (I still don't really like those Khund War issues, and it lost something when Giffen left for good). But it also had some great moments that reminded me that underneath all that grime and politics and sci-fi dystopia was a team of heroes who had grown up a lot in 5 years, but still had that youthful heroism in their hearts.

That sounds pretty cheesy. Anyway, I created a Web page (in my profile) about that era of the LSH and named my board name after one of my favorite scenes in the series, so I'm on the pro side of the v.4 debate.

In the 5-year gap series, I liked the two Mordru storylines, and the action with BION.

Other than that, I still maintain it was mostly crap that led to the reboot fiasco, near cancellation of all the Legion titles four years ago, and a Legion readership schizophrenia where everyone was united up to version 3 (with Levitz), now split into three groups:
1) Silver Age up to Magic Wars
2) TMK
3) Reboot to DnA
The latest group not necessarily privy to the "ancient" history of the Legion, introduced to the Legion under the rewritten reboot pretense rather than the original stories.

How can any creative team be expected to please ALL faithful Legion readers split into these three groups with one title? DC allowed it to happen, but haven't come up with an answer yet. Thanks again, TMK.

As much as I understand those who dislike TMK, I think that the LSH at the end of Levitz's run (or even by about v3 #50) was already in a tough spot.

The artist(s) (LaRoque, Broderick, Giffen) were drawing everyone as adults; It wasn't a Legion of teens anymore. Superboy was no longer part of the mythos (and that was editorially mandated; Valor was not TMK's original plan at all, and issues 4-12ish were mostly the writers trying to salvage their original plans in light of editorial dictates). Key members had conspired to kill the Time Trapper. The Legion was changing.

As much as I've heard the "Legion on the Run" era (the McCraw era) of v4 was planned at the start to end with the reboot, I suspect that in some ways the LSH was headed toward a complete overhaul long before that, maybe as soon as Levitz left. DC was OK with the "5-year gap" because it didn't have much to lose.

But if I'm wrong, I certainly feel that LSH was mostly on track until Giffen left (and the destruction of Earth), even though he took his crazy ideas with him. In his place was just the Bierbaums, but unfortunately they didn't have as many good plot ideas as Keith, and the title suffered. Thank God Immonen was there to make things look pretty.

Even if you didn't like TMK, the art was often quite good throughout: Brandon Peterson, Jason Pearson, and Stuart Immonen all leap to mind!

And you are right Autochef, even when the "Legion on the Run" drek (my least favorite Legion story of all time!!!) was going post-TMK at least Immonen was around for a good portion of it to keep the art nice! I'm sorry, but McCraw was not suited to write the Legion. I guess you could say that his plots were truly Interlac-ing.

There are no comic books in my possession reread and reread more than the TMK Legion. I became a monthly Legion reader with #12, and continued to the present day. It took me a long time to catch up to what was going on (I was COMPLETELY clueless), but it was well worth the effort.

The reason I cannot dislike the Earth issue is that it was essentially us, future us, that were the heros.

As a stand alone issue, forget Moons blowing up...is was a very heroic issue. The format used to tell the story was unique from normal Legion fair. I cannot think of how standard panel layout would have been as dramatic.

This issue is one of my favorite reads for when I'm in the mood for that type story.

i really enjoyed the 5YG stories !!! and even though i'd been a fan since the beginning of the 80's .... i don't recall being upset by this sudden change in the title !!!

i think the fact that Jo Nah / Ultraboy played such a major role through it, kept my excitment going !!!

i actually don't seem to recall being upset by "Legion on the Run" either !!! .....

and i liked Jo in the Emerald Dragon costume !!! what upset me more was the actual reboot, i stopped buying both titles for about a year or so, because i could get over the fact that, all those years had been erased !!!

i did return though, and i bought all the "missed" issues !!! and now i think i the Legion more than ever !!!

Matthew.

Just one little thing, since I haven't read these issues (I'd fall into Group 3 on the KidQuisletometer), about why they rebooted. I remember reading an interview with Mark Waid & Kurt Busiek (which I've never been able to find again, although I've referenced it here before), where Waid mentions that one of the main reasons they rebooted was that they couldn't find a way to fit an explaination of the Legion(s), as it stood @ the end of the 5YL period, into the Zero issues (LSH 0 and Lgs 0) and I remember someone here scoffing @ me for saying this. I still can't find it (If you know where it can be found, PLEASE tell me), but there's a bit from a Dan Jurgens interview @ comicboards right now that at least confirms that that was the intention of the 0 issues:

Ah, the 5YL era....

I can remember when it was ongoing, not really getting into it (with the exception of the Tenzil issues) until the SW6ers were brought in. THAT made me sit up and pay attention. I remember THE QUIET DARKNESS being especially bad and to this day have never reread those issues.

I am probably the ONLY person here who actually enjoyed the book MORE when TMK became just TM. Issues # 39 through 50 were well-loved by this reader; I just like how Tom & Mary wrote the Legion.

Post-Tom & Mary? **uggh!* I welcomed the reboot with open arms. Although Infectious Lass DID have a few good scenes during "Legion on the Run". They get props for that.

The 5YL era was my favorite!

That's probably because it was the era in which I first started reading the Legion... so none of the re-workings of old characters and events seemed that way to me. Everything and everyone was new, and I pretty much read everything as a blank slate. It was only after the fact -- after I'd already become a Legion fan -- that I went back and read the original stories, which I loved just as much.

I think one ends up liking both the 5YL and everything that came before only if you started with the 5YL and worked backward, rather than vice versa...

I hated the 5 year gap at first but it really grew on me and I ended up loving it. It was the most dense, mature, complex writing the Legion ever had. I did hate a few issues but overall, I think it was a great series.

I was very wary of the 5-Year Gap when I first learned of it and I almost didn't buy it. After all, I'd been a fan of the Levitz Legion for years and it looked like this was going to throw all of that away. I DID buy it, however, and they soon won me over with stories like the Mordruverse and the introduction of Laurel Gand. It was a little confusing at first (well, it was a little confusing most of the time) but I didn't mind that. There was lots of stuff I liked: the serious Subs, B.I.O.N, the sexuality, SW-6, and the twin shockers that Shvaughn was really Sean and Garth was really Proty. There was lots of stuff I didn't like: Dev-em going insane, Dyrk selling out, and the moon blowing up.

The issue where Earth is destroyed was powerful and moving, but I think it was a huge mistake and went contrary to the future the Legion's creators imagined. I know that grim and gritty were intellectually hip back then and I didn't mind them taking the Earth down a grim and gritty path, but they were basically saying that the future of my youth had all been a big lie. I have to admit that I kind of liked the Cities In Flight setting for Legionnaires, I'm just sorry they had to destroy the world to create it.

I don't know what was going on with the Legion on the Run issues. For the first time in years Legion dropped off my "must read" list and some of those issues sat around for months before I got around to reading them. I still couldn't tell you what it was about. The whole thing felt like a generic Marvel comic, not the Legion.

As for the reboot, well, if I felt betrayed by the Gap imagine how I felt when I heard that news! I stuck with it, though, and after I dealt with the loss of all my old friends I even managed to enjoy it sometimes. I pretty much had to treat it as a whole new book that was unconnected to my Legion except in name.

I finally stopped buying it shortly after Abnett and Lanning came on board. I didn't like their writing style at all and the art was pretty painful. I've been picking it up again with the current Superboy and at least the art has gotten better.

Ken