Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes What can be done to save the Legion?

Well, I'd trust most of the fanfic writers here over just about anybody DC is likely to put on the title.

Perhaps they should just let a fan (or fans) write the Legion. Desaad's points about wide-screen action coupled with long-term plotting make sense, and so we need a skilled,experienced writer with love for the title AND GIVEN FREE REIGN BY EDITORIAL.

I'm going to take that 'artist' to be Keith Giffen, and that's god damn heartbreaking.

But I'm betting it's Levitz having a specific vision for what he wants to do with his Legion, more than anything. I can't imagine that anyone has any right to tell him what he can or cannot do on that book, editorially, given his previous status within the company, and the almost assured severance he got in terms of creative freedom for moving out of the Presidential role without any fuss.

I think the elements of a perfect Legion book have been scattered around various attempts throughout the years. The closest, as I see it, was Giffen's 5 Years Later run, but that was perhaps too adult, too impenetrable, too ambitious, and ultimately Giffen and the Bierbaums weren't doing very 'stable' work (moments of complete brilliance, but punctuated by stretches of mediocrity when Giffen wasn't directly involved in either the plotting/dialogue/artwork).

What made Levitz’s contribution so exceptional is that he was planning stories out not just 12 issues, but YEARS in advance, we’ve plots and subplots over the better part of a decade, it seemed. The meticulous detail with which he catalogued his work, mapped his progression, meant that he could rotate the spotlight to various characters, giving each of them their due. And this long term planning allowed everything that happened to feel organic. Characters and character relationships developed over years, with a realistic, measured rhythm. Events never felt like they were done for shock value, or to see what worked, but had been built to over the course of months at minimum. There was a natural, gradual escalation of threat.

No, this isn’t the only thing that made Levitz’s Legion such a success, but it’s the one thing that his Legion had that all others have lacked. His Legion was partially successful because it had a healthy dose of soap opera, which he did quite well. But other Legions have had the same soap opera – most notably the archie legion under Peyer, Waid, etc – and didn’t fare nearly as well, either in the open market or the critical theatre.

Giffen brought with him a genius concept engine, with some extremely forward thinking ideas. It’s clear, especially from their separately done work, that he was the Big Concept guy, more in line with Grant Morrison and Warren Ellis than the traditional superhero writers of the day. His characters were complex, subtle, and often deeply tragic.

DnA’s Legion took a page from revamps like Grant Morrison’s JLA and Ellis’ Authority/Stormwatch and brought widescreen action to the book. That is certainly an element that had been there, in bits, with epics such as Great Darkness Saga and the Time Trapper throwdown, but it wasn’t nearly as emphasized until DnA came on. But their run lacked, crucially, the long term planning I mentioned earlier. That’s why something like “Legion Lost” and “Legion Worlds” holds up so well, while the Legion title itself became progressively more haphazard, began to rely on shock value and ultimately their removal was not only warranted, but overdue.


Waid’s second turn at the title attempted to blend two of the attributes I mentioned above – soap opera and big concept generation – but failed to do the first interestingly or convincingly, and failed to create any interesting, compelling antagonists for the team. Additionally, the lack of a long term blueprint was fairly obvious (and disappointing). Potential, sure, but squandered.

One thing that I thought Waid did well was that he attempted to make the characters feel…alien, or at least profoundly DIFFERENT, both from each other and from what we have come to consider ‘normal’. While previous iterations of the Legion had a few token ‘alien’ like characters, most of the main cast acted exactly as one might expect a JLA member to act. Under Waid’s pen, the character of Chameleon, for instance, was odd while still relatable. Leviathon was in fact a giant who could shrink. Titans could no longer speak with vocal chords.

Any future attempt at the title has to attempt to reconcile and merge all these positive aspects, but most crucial is that there most be some long term, multi year plan in place. Legion is a title that not only allows such a plan thanks to the insular nature of its continuity, but it demands it thanks to the sprawling size of its cast. Likewise crucial are the big concepts, the soap opera, and the wide screen action. All of these can be blended into what I think would be the perfect Legion of Superheroes comic book.

Regarding the preboot / postboot / etc: for years and years and years, all I wanted was for the "original" Legion to return. Even during the postboot, which I absolutely loved, I always in the back of my mind wanted to see the original "preboot" Legion again. During the threeboot, I craved it more than ever.

And then they came back...kind of. And I learned that "kind of" will always be the case. I also learned you can never go home again, an obvious lesson I should have seen coming. Since their return in Action Comics this "original" or "quasi-original" or whatever you want to call it Legion does not feel like the original Legion. And nothing ever will.

I'm afraid that will be the same if the postboot Legion ever came back.

I'd take single issue stories by rotating writers (including LW fanfic writers) and 1-2 strong artists over anything we've had in the last 10 years.

Oh, I know (Frankly, I wouldn't trust the current state of affairs at DC anyway). It's a "be careful what you wish for", but I can't help wishing...

It's the return of the reboot Legion! Except XS never existed, Brainiac Five now has Batman's personality, and the Legion has bizarrely adopted the threeboot "Eat it, Grandpa!" as a motto! And did I mention they're meeting the Fatal Five for the first time?

If that's the sort of thing they've been pulling with the current team, even before the "Fatal Five again for the first time" bit, why is anyone accepting the retroboot or 52boot teams as "the original Legion"?

If that's the sort of thing they've been pulling with the current team, even before the "Fatal Five again for the first time" bit, why is anyone accepting the retroboot or 52boot teams as "the original Legion"?

It's not going to happen, but I'd like to see the Legion made open-source, or whatever you call it for characters. Just throw it wide open for anyone to use, write about, make movies, whatever, like we have for Sherlock Holmes. The cream would rise to the top, and there might be a Legion for everyone.

Unfortunately, the Legion doesn't have the widespread popularity of a Sherlock Holmes, so it might just sink into oblivion.

Geoff Johns is just the wrong choice for the Legion, and there is no getting around that.

I'd rather the Legion die than be kept 'alive' by a writer who either doesn't understand or doesn't agree with the whole point of the franchise.

I'm not convinced that being a fan is necessary, or even preferable; I think that's sort of the trouble that Levitz is in. He's writing with too much history at his back, he can't shake it. I think a lot of fans would do the same.