Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Legion Lost #1 (Preview and Spoilers)

One thing I find really interesting about wolves is that they are smarter and larger than dogs. If Timber Wolf is at a 'wolf' level and a regular human is at a 'dog's' level ... that would be interesting. There's some suepriority that could be explored there but Timber Wolf has always been depicted as 'less than human' when in actuality he might be like a vampyre in superiority to a normal human ... faster, stronger, smarter, maybe even coming off manipulative.

I resent this.

^^I really like the TWolf is to regular human as wolf is to dog analogy.

It strikes me that the basic idea of the origin of TWolf is that his scientist father* was trying to engineer his child to be the equal of the synthetic humanoids he was manufacturing. It seems strange from that origin you would get a character who would generally be depicted as of less than average intelligence.


*We've very rarely seen TWolf's mother mentioned as well, which leads me to theorize that he may actually be a kind of "super-clone" of his father.

i know one of you guys has said this before, but technically isn't wolverine a timber wolf rip-off? lol

I'm going to keep buying this series.

I did not like the art. It is too crowded. You don't have to fill every space with lines or objects.

I did not like the plot. It was choppy. It could have used some space too. Especially if you're hoping to get new readers used to new characters.

Plus, seven legionnaires to track a terrorist through time? A pretty silly decision for a legion leader (i.e. an editorial decision).

Anyway, the glimmer of bright spots were the characterizations and the sense of loss and isolation that did make it through. So, I'll keep watching.

Yes. Timber Wolf came first. Also 'Wolverine' was pitched as a character for a proposed LSH spin-off comic called 'The Outsiders' (as a villain I think). When the series wasn't picked up, the character of Wolverine was taken to Marvel Comics..... along with Nightcrawler. And the rest is history.

Not quite true. Wolverine wasn't one that Cockrum brought over (though he did design a "Wolverine" and its possible Roy Thomas unconsciously swiped it and gave it to Wein over in Hulk).

http://www.cosmicteams.com/legion/docs/theoutsiders.html

Some thoughts!

Fatal Fab has done this before: when he started on New Mutants / X-Force he killed off the enire Hellions to show his villain was a proper big bad villain. So neat characters like Catseye and Roulette were done away with for 'impact' on his debut storyline. I hope Gates and Yera aren't dead but it doesn't look good...

He also retconned Magma's origin (which was the only thing the bystander character had going for her) which really undermined her entire storylines without replacing it with anything better.

For a 'jumping on' point Legion Lost 1 doesn't hold much hope. There's no explanation about what the Legion is for new readers and the Alastor character is so badly defined new readers might think he's a long term antagonist they should know more about.

I'm usually a big fan of Pete Woods art but its murkier here because he's trying a new style. If it was 'prettier' it might go down better.

There's also huge confusion as to whether this is an ongoing on mini series. The original Legion Lost worked because no matter how we felt it was going it had to go somewhere. With this...who knows!

It wasn't Fabian who killed the Hellions, that was purely Jim Lee and Whilce Portacio over in X-Men.....by the time Fabian became associated with X-Force that event had already happened.

Magma was done while he was writing, and I think it was a huge disservice to her character, but I think the lack of judgement involved in that is not on par with the lack of judgement it would take to kill off two of your cast in the first issue permanently when the only way you can replace them is to use characters from the local time. Changing Magma ruined a bunch of potential for one character, but killing two of the LL crew at this stage would be damaging for the whole concept of the book, and I don't think he would be stupid enough to do that.

I think the hectic and confusing pacing was quite deliberate - we're not really supposed to know what's going on at this stage. Whether that works or not is another matter, but I don't think it's a product of technically bad writing.

Plus, We've already seen Alastor blow up once and not die...and this time he did it in the middle of being spatially teleported during an unstable journey through time. Literally anything could have happened to those three characters, death is very low on the list of options IMO..

Wow! Really? I remember reading the Hellions death in the shop but not buying it - so who wrote that issue?

Lash pointed out (in the Legion of Superheroes 1 thread) that CBR was testing New 52 comics on new comics readers.

Here's what they had to say about Legion Lost ... and it's not good.

"What in the heck happened in this comic? A group of heroes against a green hospitalized freak thing that was released? I literally don't know what just happened," new reader Aly told me. One of our returning readers who was giving DC another shot after being completely confused by "Batwing," this apparently was not the comic to win her over. Nor was it winning any points with Lee, another returning reader who felt he needed to give DC one more chance before giving up on the New 52.

"The entire issue was like that one part of each 'Star Trek' episode where they move the killer asteroid by expanding their shields with math or whatever," Lee complained.

"I feel like I was sort of thrown in the middle of something, like I was fighting to understand both the characters and the situation," agreed new reader Phil, an associate producer who cheerfully informed me at the start of the survey that he "read a Garfield collection once."

"I feel stupid now," Aly added after putting down the issue.

Notes on Legion of Superheroes 1 here .

The Hellions were killed in one of The first X-Men issues written by either Jim lee or Whilce portacio. I know portacio did the art for it. It was just prior to the exodus of artists from marvel to go form iMage comics (sorry about weird punctuation, writing on iPhone).

Claremont may have technically still been listed as a writer at that stage but marvel had been giving their artists more and more power over the books, and the Hellions were Claremont's babies so I can't imagine he'd have been happy about them being slaughtered by a nobody villain.

Fabian Nicieza did actually write the Hellions in an early new warriors issue, and even added a couple of new members to replace Thunderbird and Empath who had left by then..

I really think they should have just stuck with the little info blurbs that have been appearing in Legion for the last few years. The little ones that give the name/planet/power description. They way it was written here was like old school Claremont where every character is calling another by name and describing his or their powers for the reader. It just felt sloppy and stiff when the little boxes could have made it so much smoother.

That and with this supposed to being a fresh start with a new number one jumping into the plot with no real background or refferances to who and what was going on was a big mistake. I know what they are shooting for, but it just comes off as a bad descion when trying to get new readers rite out of the gate. I had the same problem with Legion of Super Heroes #1 in that it did not read like a first issue, but more like issue #17 of the last series.

I wonder if DC saw the Legion, the Bat books and the GL books as a sort of a hedge in case the very big risk of the new DCU blew up in their face.

I mean, there'd be a few places to retreat to, if they had to do so.

Also, Levitz's position as former man-in-charge might inhibit a bit of editorial truth-telling. If so, I'd say that currency's now spent. I think the book will still pick up some new readers, though. But not as many as were out there, evidently.

I also think the Legion's just a book that's not for everybody. Some people just aren't going to get it. Their loss, I say. Let them enjoy the simple stories they can get elsewhere.

I really hated the issue.
Thought the art was ok and I generally like what Nicieza writes, but this was forced, confusing.
TBH, I'm only hoping that the series will fail and that the characters will be folded back in Legion of Superheroes.

Puzzling, however, is this mention of Flashpoint in both Legion titles, with Wilfire talking about the Flashpoint Breakwall and Dreamy saying how time travel is screwed and they can't call Superman in LSH.

Wonder what that means about the new continuity?

I just had a thought...if nobody in-universe KNOWS that the Flash is responsible for Flashpoint, why are they CALLING it Flashpoint??

LOL

I just had a thought. Yera and Gates are still alive, but have merged into one.

*shudder*

Yergates?

Well, between the hints of a new Emerald Vi and the Team 20 split, it seems like the current Legion creative team are determined to recreate the worst stories of the Reboot, so a Jarth homage would just complete the trifecta.

Yeah, I wondered how they would know to call it "Flashpoint," too, for that same reason. Heh!

But seriously, what hints have been dropped of a new Emerald Vi other than that final panel in the most recent annual?

Yates?
Gera?
Chameleon Bug??

Pleeeease Fabian don't do this....I am a little scared now....while I can't see him just killing them, he loves needless convolutions. Jolt in Thunderbolts allegedly died only to come back brain-damaged in her normal form with an electrical undamaged form that went on to become a hero on a parallel Earth orbiting the other side of the sun from us. Namorita in New Warriors (who was already complicated just enough by being a clone of the then dead Namora instead of her daughter) turned blue due to unstable genetics...Moonstone in Thunderbolts was revealed to have been becoming heroic only because the rock that powered her was overriding her personality with that of a dead Kree heroine who was a member of a group called the Guardians of the Galaxy who don't actually have any relation to the Guardians of the Galaxy we'd already known from the 31st century and the moonstone was one of 7 or 8 gems and AHHH HEAD ASPLODEY

I do like Fabian's writing a lot but I really dislike his need to complicate things needlessly. :\

I probably should have said "hint<strike>s</strike>" - that's the one I was thinking of.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm getting paranoid in my old age that I've missed crucial Legion information.