Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes LSH cover FACEOFF!!!

According to whom? Cockrum and Sherman rocked (imho). Grell was a crushing disappointment after Cockrum, and his work only got worse with time (imho).

Well, I'd say that's the consensus I've seen here on the boards and in Legion retrospectives here and there.

Am I off-base here, guys?!?!

#225, one of my favorite stories from that era even though it's one of those stories that throws pre-existing characterization out the window....although, one could say there was not really any pre-existing characterization at that point to be thrown out.


IIRC it actually shows in that fight that Wildfire has some degree of superstrength. Can't remember for certain though.


And yeah, the Grell Legion from that era is always going to have a special place in my heart.

I always looked at it as Dave Cockrum pretty much made the Legion jump off the covers in the Newsstands visually, but Grell made them sexy and really refined what Dave started.

I'm not trying to single you out, Officer Taylor, because you're by no means the only one who does this, but I have a pet peeve about people stating their opinion as if it's a fact. So unless one can provide concrete data from an extensive survey of Legion fandom, that quantifiably states "75% of all Legion fans rate Grell in the top 3 artists of such and such an era" IMHO, one should preface such a statement with an "imho".

My personal theory as to why so many Legion fans seem to like Grell is that many of the posters on here first discovered the Legion in their youth, while Grell was at the helm, and what they really feel is a certain nostalgic fondness for that time in their lives and that sense of discovering a whole new fantasy world, rather than an actual appreciation for Grell's artistic ability. Again, imho.

Well, the funny thing is it's NOT "imho"! The Superboy/LSH era is the big, gaping hole in my Legion collection! I have the beginnings of it in my Legion Archives (those particular volumes being ones I haven't read yet) and lots of scattered back issues, all unread because I'm such a completist that I don't want to read them until I have them all to read together.

So I'm about as unbiased about that era as I can be, I suppose. I like Cockrum and Grell based entirely off other seminal works they've done and not the Legion. Sherman, I've never read a story in which he did the art. But looking at Legion historically, it's hard to deny the influence Cockrum and Grell had on that era from the costumes and the character debuts alone. Sherman had less to do along those lines, but the regard for him from such a small body of work is hard to ignore.

I've been a part of Legion fandom online for as long as the internet came to be a phenomenon and those three emerge as having the most devoted fans among Legion artists from that era. And between Grell and Staton with those two covers, I recognize some hallmarks that distinguish Grell's style that I like and some from Staton that I dislike.

Lardy, didn't we have a favorite artists poll a few years ago? you could check that out for corroboration.

Yeah, there was one of those, LAL. That one covered ALL eras to that point, though. IIRC, Cockrum and Grell did VERY well on that one...

my faves are giffen, immonen, lightle, coipel, sprouse, .......... pretty much in that order ....... followed by that guy who started the threeboot, and does perez count .... and that recent action comic's guy who drew the subs .... yeah.

yeah!

# 225, though I agree that both covers seem forced. However, this one wins my vote because I dislike the other.

1. The red letters with white background make the logo of # 248 seem incomplete to me.

2. As far as Sun Boy deserving a walloping, not really. Shady gets injured while the team encounters a sewer monster (sent by Dr. Mantis Morlo), and Sun Boy feels unduly responsible. Mon goes a bit nuts and shirks his Legion duty to spend this issue and the next at Shady's bedside. Not one of Mon's finer moments.

3. I'm in the Grell-over-Staton camp. Whether this is due to nostalgia (Grell was the fourth Legion artist I was exposed to, after Forte, Swan, and Cockrum) or Grell's artistic merits I leave for others to decide. To me, the cover of # 225 flows better and is more visually interesting--in large part because of the mysterious mannequins in the background.

Neither cover is particularly good.
But #225 works better for me.

I vote 225 just because Wildfire is my favorite. A Legion without Wildfire is not a Legion at all.

By way of trying to explain Grell's appeal, at the time, Grell's artwork seemed new and fresh and young, exciting, more detailed, more Neal Adamsy-pop art than old-style Kirby/Swan comic book art. Even his flaws in human anatomy seemed more like fresh new exciting poses rather than, umm, flaws in human anatomy.

Yet I like 248 better, though I think it is more Giordano than Staton. Its just a cleaner drawing.

248 is definitely more Giordano than Staton, in fact I'd call it a Giordano cover basically.

Staton has a cartoony aspect to his work that is pretty much non-existent in that cover. And those powerful lines are a Giordano trademark.

IMVHO, seldom has Staton's work looked better than it does on that particular cover.


One thing I notice though...Mon-El looks extremely powerful on that cover. Extremely powerful. Personally I it when Mon-El is drawn as being slight built better. Mon-El has never seemed like the type to worry much about his physique to me.

#248 for me if only because it makes me think that any moment Dirks head will be leaving his body!

I think it's safe to call it...


225 gets 16 votes

248 gets 9 votes


Next face-off coming up shortly...

LSH ELSEWORLDS FACE-OFF... (The Legionnaires scan is much larger through no fault of mine, sorry 'bout that)





VS.

LSH #92. While I like the JSA riff in the L* cover, anything with Gates front and center in such an awesome way gets my vote.

My vote is for LEGIONNAIRES 54.

Both covers AND interior stories were excellent, though.

Legionnaires #54 hands down for me.

I'm not a huge Grell fan since I thought and think, that many of his costumes are bordering on ridiculous but I DO think that he was a good follow-up for Cockrum.
Their styles were similar enough to create a continuity of the new visual identity that Cockrum, and a few others (fan costumes) had begun.

One of my problems with Grell, too, is that his work is SO of that era, Disco stuff, that I don't think it carries over well.
It's not 'ageless'.

Few artists and their work, are really.

I think that Swan, Adams, Cockrum, Lightle, Hughes and Coipel transend their 'eras'.
(That list isn't exhaustive, by any means.)

Legionnaires 54.

Hmm. If I had voted from memory, I would have gone the other way. 54 created some neat visual textures, but I don't care much for Moy. LSH #92 and the "B" movie poster get my vote.

LSH 92 for me, too. Love seeing Gates featured in a cover, and the green background makes him seem more menacing, somehow. More...alien. They just did a good job on this one.

Leg. 54 looks too static for my taste.