Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Mr. Levitz...Tyroc has tons of potential!

I have been reading the LSH since 1978 in all it's many incarnations so I remember the poor traetment Tyroc received in his brief career in the Legion. Recently I re-read the few stories were Tyroc played some role in the story. This excludes the many in the background no talking shots of references to the character. He really only has 4 stories..his first appearance/rascism storyline, his fight with who would become Earth Man and his entry ceremony, his arrest by the Legion..issue 222 and his origin/vanishing in 264-266. That's it folks!
Some thoughts as I re read it all..
. Marzal could have just reappeared explaining Tyroc's where abouts..also the current xenophobic storyline would work well to an island removed from the world.
. Very cool powers..like Black Canary on acid..the teleportation might have to not be used because of Gates..but this could be explained away to the phasing of the island.
. How bout a love triangle..in the past stories Shadow Lass is his best friend in the Legion..with Monel out of the picture this pairing could be hot!
. Earth man could be to Tyroc what Dr. Regulus is to SunBoy..lots of drama here!

So much potential..and everyone is in agreement that next to Chemical King, Tyroc has been seriously neglected!
Go for it!

I still maintain that the writers back then stopped using Tyroc because his powers were so, what's the word, omnipotent, in that he could do just about anything the writer at that time needed him to do (ie: make the ground malleable with a single scream). That kind of no bounderies power just wouldn't fly in today's cynical readership fandom.

If Tyroc is to come back full-time, or even semi full-time, then they (meaning Paul Levitz) needs to go back to the drawing board, if you'll excuse the pun, and re-define his powers ... minimum and maximum. Not "errr ... ok we'll have him do this or that with his scream this issue", just to get our heroes our of a bind in a hurry. That's how the problems started with this character in the beginning, I think, so this mentality wouldn't serve him any better today and he would stop being used.

There needs to be parameters set before he is used in his first story in the new series, and the readers need to know what to expect before he demonstrates his power.

I do like the idea of using the extradimensional / phasing nature of Marzal to rationalize power uses that we don't want to deal with any longer, if Tyroc gains more of a sonic / vibrational powerset and less of a 'I scream and random stuff happens' thing.

It's the same reason why mages tend to last for such short times on superteams. The ability to do anything the writer wants is just murder on the drama, and ends up becoming a problem later when another writer wants to use a plot element and has to deal with the fact that Mr. I Can Do Anything has already displayed the ability to overcome that plot point with a snap of his fingers, forcing the writer to come up with an excuse why Dr. Strange can't teleport people this week.

I still maintain that Tyroc's power set is not unbalancing to a team that has at times had more than a couple of Daxamite-level characters, the White Witch (who is more often than not used in combat as deus ex machina), Element Lad and Quislet...Tyroc isn't any more unbalancing than Zatanna is to the Justice League, and she is a fan favourite.

Zatanna and Tyroc are good comparisons actually; both have a potentially inexhaustible bag of powers, but are both limited by the fact that they need to specifically vocalise their effects (for Zee it's talking backwards, for Tyroc it's a specific scream for a specific purpose), and both of them are also limited by the fact that if you rob them of their voices they are normal humans with no particular fighting skills above the average person.

I just honestly don't see why Tyroc's power is seen as being that much more difficult to include in any story setting than any of the other high-powered Legionnaires.

I agree razsolo. Paul just needs to keep with what was established originally and not what was tacked on by writers unfamiliar with the character -

^ Thanks Gary. That's helpful. Though I love Tyroc my two big problems with him are

1. those screams are totally ridiculous to read

and

2. the effects of those screams seem to have no rhyme or reason.

I would completely do away with the dopey sound effects and just say he has a kind of sonic power that he can tap into by everything from screaming to whistling to humming and that lets him shatter/destroy/de-stabilise certain objects, instil vertigo and maybe create a force-field.

I would totally do away with the weather/plant/wind manipulation, telekinesis and transmutation powers. They're too much.

I couldn't disagree more. The screams help define him and for the most part why can't he have a variety of powers? It's only good for Kryptonians and Daxamites?

I don't think he should be just another Banshee/Black Canary. I think the powers are cool and identifying them with a certain scream helps the writer/readers from feeling like he can do whatever whenever he feels like it.

His weaknesses (kryptonite/lead) of course being that his voice/throat can be disabled like Billy Batson/Captain Marvel.

Hmm... I'd actually suggest making them even more random. Let it take quite a bit of practice to accurately produce the screams, so that he'd only have a few that he'd practiced and could do really well. Others he might try, but if he makes a mistake doing them, something completely unexpected might happen. Also, if he gets interrupted while screaming (for example, someone blasts him mid-scream), that can have unexpected effects.

Jasmine had the same problem with her quantum energy powers, poorly defined and/or too powerful.

As far as that power list, I'd remove most of them as not being sound/sonic related and confusing/unneeded.
Personally, I would chose a power set something like this:
EEYYAAAHH! - pyrokinesis (heat as well as fire)
ARRRRHHHH! - explosions
(These two are related and friction based.)
ZZZRRRUUGGHH! - telekinesis
(This one only as sound might create sliding, tipping over/back, bursts away in one direction or another. It can be used to move air/water/earth in 'waves', too, with varying degrees of success and difficulty. Solids=hard, gases=easy.)
CCCIIIRRR! - vertigo (Inner ear manipulation.)
RRRYYYY! - wind manipulation (As explosions and 'bursts' cause a reaction in the air.)
AHHRRRRRR! - force field (Air/water vibration most effective with solids, since light isn't effected by sound, for example.)

I would eliminate these as well as any dimensional warping, flying without a ring or freezing (unless sound can make atoms/molecules slow down:
OYYUUUUUU! - teleportation
UIUUIEEEE! - transmutation
ARRREEEEG! - weather manipulation
IRRRRWWWW! - plant manipulation.

I'd use those 4 sounds for various offensive weapons types of sound, ie.:
piercing
vibrating/knock off/knocking down/shaking apart/breaking apart
percussion for added sound creating confusion
percussion for knocking out.

On the Downside:
Not functional in space.
Not functional against energies.
Sound muffling devices can work against his powers with varing degrees of success.
Less effective the denser manipulated items or states of being, get.

Sketch Lad came up with a variation on the way Tyroc's sonic powers are delivered.
A child of his (with Nura) manipulates sound with song, rather than shouts.
That's a great idea, I think, and might add something to Tyroc's delivery.
Say, his wind &/or vertigo abilities might be something his fine tunes with melodies.

I'd certainly change his look, too.
For example:


And:


AND I'd put him with a sister, since they HATE their men choosing women not of color.
I'd bring a Jasmine to this continuity or convert Quicksand or age Computo from the original Legionnaires.
Although, Tasmia isn't a bad choice, at all.

I like this!

I do personally think that the individual sound-effect per scream is a bit of a dated concept, but it does help establish individual effects. And it's not really any sillier than half the incantations magic users in comics use.

I don't remember who it was, but someone here mentioned an idea about Tyroc's power actually harnessing superstring vibrations, which is why he can do so much reality-alteration type stuff. I really like this idea as well, and it's a way of grounding his powers in some kind of pseudo-science while still letting them be as wacky as all get-out..

I believe I suggested the superstring idea!

I actually see Tyroc as much closer to the magic-user-with-incantations model than a generic Banshee/Black Canary sound character. As I see it, his primary ability is "reality-warping", and the screams are just his particular way of activating his power.

Giving him Black Canary-style power would be kind of like replacing Imra's powers with super-head-touching or something.

I think the string vibrations were Set?
Or EDE.

The writer would need a thorogh grouding in string theory, though.
I don't think it's magical or bends reality or stuff like that (I DON'T have that knowledge set, myself.)
That's on a cosmic power level, too.

I think that would make him way too powerful, maybe.

And the only one who could make shouts old hat would be Black Bolt and he's never had various yells, has he?
Who else is there?
Not Black Canary, really, she just has one, doesn't she?

Anyway, I don't know the others if there are any.
sigh

But, until I read the wikipedia, I didn't know Tyroc actually HAD different shouts that did different things!

Yes, Banshee, DC's and Marvel's.

Well, if you prefer reality bending, that's what the Scarlet Witch does, as well as the before mentioned Dr. Strange/Dr. Fate.

I just have never seen Tyroc that way.
He just seems more primal.

But if we allow Troy to retain all those powers then we may as well just change his name to Super Deux Ex Machina Man. He'd be like a walking version of the Miracle Machine - able to do anything that any writer wanted him to do at any given moment.

And characters like that are enormously difficult to write, especially on teams. Look at how they had to limit Zatanna's power to non-organic materials when she was on the JLA. I'm positive that's why Paul got rid of him all those years ago.

Now that some of you mention it though - the effects of his powers do make him much more of a spell-caster than a specifically vocal/aural powered guy.

Some of the effects of his screams make MUCH more sense if you consider them the result of a spell rather than just his scream.

But we already have a spell-caster on this team. And I prefer the Legionnaires not having duplicate powers. Or being too over-powered - which spell-casters tend to be.

And I love silly in my Legion but those screams are on another level.

That's already a generalisation today. And one I hope wouldn't exist to the 31st century.

Plus, Troy needs to have the afro IMO!

Or at least anything but just a short shaved/#1 haircut which seems to be DC's 'go-to' look for every single one of their black male characters. Totally sick of their lack of creativity in that area. If Marvel can have given Bishop nearly every hairstyle under the sun then DC can give their black male characters more than ONE look.

So agree, there. They can throw in some *awesome* dreads or cornrow / tight braid styles, and they choose to go with the shiny dome or crewcut every time? Boring!

1. The black woman 'thing' is not really a generalization in our society.
It's currently a MAJOR resentment that many, many black women voice.
AND Troy comes from Marzal, an ALL black society that's incredibly isolated and hates outsiders.
Marzal doesn't really LIVE in the 31st century.

2. How many black characters does DC have?
Mr. Terrific, John Stewart, Cyborg, Starboy Prime, Steel, reboot's Gear are ones I can think of.
You're right, they all have very short hair or are bald.

But, well, I HATE afros.
Wonder Woman had a boyfriend who had dreads.
They killed him, of course.

The dread look was on the Andromeda character and Atlantis (SG) also had someone with dreads.
Beautiful men, both of them.

I don't mind dreads, I just think Tyroc wouldn't work well with them.

Maybe something like Jacques, only shorter.
But, then they'd look alike.

The Legion has always kind of gone with the look of the day they were in, except maybe Forte.
Almost everyone on TV or in the movies has short or shaved heads.

Maybe a Michael Jackson look?

We should get pictures of different hair styles and set up a poll.
Come on, EDE (or Set or Blacula), you'd be good at that.
I'll help, if you want.

There's a very short look, already.
I'll add the dreadlock look and find a MJ shot or two.

I linked to some pictures of those exact two men in the above post, but I didn't find a picture of cornrows that worked for me.

I don't do polls. Too technical for me. I'm dictating my words to a trained marmoset, because I can't even work a computer!

Yes, I saw the pictures, I just sort of identified them so I could talk about them.


A marmoset, huh?
Just don't let him take any fruit near the machine.
They're SO messy!

Static is probably an exception to the hair thing, but I haven't looked at him lately.

Well, here's an idea:

This is another:

How about:

Static had short dreads that kind of stuck out, right?

In the middle schools I've been in this last 3 years, I remember 1 long afro and a few dreads.
The rest were just fairly short regular hair.

I don't know what kids/young people (to 25) would think of a comic with an afro haired character.
They might like it as different.
Or they might think it's lame.
sigh

I'd pick a pretty close to the scalp cut for Tyroc, myself. Though I also would think a fairly modest afro would be cool.

I wish DC'd used Tyroc in the Supergirl/Silver Banshee storyline that ran while the Legionnaires were in the 21st century. Though I don't want Troy to be a copy of Marvel's Banshee, I do think connecting him to DC's line of banshees (is that the plural of banshee?) would have been very interesting. Not least because he's a male.

I've only ever read of celtic-based white women as banshees-- perhaps in different cultures, bashees might be male only, or gender neutral.

I kind of like the freaky syllables- but only if they're used consistently and have a definite number. The deus ex machina worry is a very good one, to my mind. I think I'd drop any power that's currently held by a Legionnaire and go for levitation, disorientation, force-blast, wind control, death-sensing (that's if he were connected to banshees) and one wild card ability that takes a lot out of him when used.