Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Levitz talks Legion

Outside of a few "phrases" and mentioning it once every great while, there was no way to know that Gim was Jewish. Only way I really found out was when Marte said something about he and Yera raising their kids Jewish.

Eh. Gim Allon's Jewishness was a retcon, though. Levitz noted that "Allon" was the name of a famous Israeli general and a light went on in his head, so to speak. I presume that a wholesale change in the character's appearance just because of that wouldn't have made sense. Partially because it would disorient readers and partially because there are plenty of Jews who don't look like Mel Brooks or Richard Lewis. I have a slew of pale-skinned, freckled, red-headed cousins on Mom's side, for instance.

In a sense, Levitz sent a mixed signal, because I think the writers and editors in the 1980s didn't want to blatantly pour a whole lot of religious elements into the stories. At the time, I was a little disappointed at this, but nowadays I think they had the right idea. For those of us who aren't religious, it can feel very tiresome after a while when religion seems to intrude into everything.

SECRETS OF THE LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES #1 (Jan 1981) -

Ha!

I haven't gone out of lurking mode around here in a while, but if anyone does want to see what a 30th century including PoC would look like...

Originally, and during the pre and post Zero hour Valor seeding times, all of those aliens mentioned started out as Earth humans.
I could see one genetic predispostion or another being in a specific geographical region or another.
The Dominators would take most or all natives from that area and they would create the same powers in each group.
Before Crisis, I could see that colonists for a planet would originally come from the same Earth areas due to compatability with the planet environment and for group dynamics.

In the Pern stories, the settlers came from 3 geographic regions on Earth and all of the 'founders' had a similar political ideology, which was the belief and desire for a low tech society based on guilds.
Those groups were sent to Pern because the planet was low in metals and fossil fuels which would make a hightech society difficult if not impossible.

In all of the realities mentioned, ethnicity would survive, especially in isolated colony situations, I think.

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Dawnstar - Anasazi, actually, so more Arizona-based Native American. Comic book native americans are always plains dwellers It would be neat to see a Seminole, or a South American native,. . . but I don't think I'll hold my breath for an Iroquois showing up.

Dawnstar wasn't originally Anastazi. Her tribe wasn't named, if I remember correctly and her original 'look' was stereotypically plains indian. (Preboot Starhaven was a 700 year old colony made up of multiple 'Amerind' tribes.)
In the retroboot, I assume TPTB will go with the Bedard version from .REBELS.
I think that the showing there was also very 'Yellow Hand' rather than Puebloish, but that's just me, probably.

That's an interesting insight into Gim and Levitz and how things develope in a serial story.

But I think that 'they' wouldn't have had to change Gim's looks from middle American/Canadian to Jewish nearly as much as they had to change Val's looks from Caucasian to Japanese.
And they did it.
(All Gim would have needed would have been a small beard and the idea would have gotten across, with a Star of David somewhere, of course!

Ahhhh, stereotypes!

But seriously, in the long run, I agree that it shouldn't have been done.
(Rokk makes much more sense as Jewish, .)

I prefer not to have too much Earth religion in comics, either.
At least, living religions.
But not because they intrude.

For me it's either too easy to offend people or that the writers usually don't get it correct, anyway, especially Christianity, imo.

I always liked how Star Trek dealt with God.
They'd have a comment or an occasional glimpse or once, a story, but mostly it was about space and aliens.
I particularly liked glimpses of Vulcan and Klingon beliefs.

I think though that having a whole group of people with NO beliefs in or versions of God would be just as unrealistic and intrusive as having EVERYONE with them.
And that's my opinion.

Legion Secret Origins:
Well, there you go, it's cannon that Gim's from (once named)Israel and Jerusalem. But's it's his working on a kibbutz that seals the Jewish background.
No question there!

The pendulum, she swings. DC pretty much got off the ground thanks to a pair of Jewish men making a Christ-metaphor named Kal-El (Mighty Warrior of the Lord), something played upon heavy-handedly in the last Superman movie (with all the 'sent you, my only son, to be their savior' references).

Then they avoided religion for awhile. Now they are back to throwing around religious terminology willy-nilly (calling Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman a 'Trinity,' for instance).

Gim has never worn his identity on his sleeve, but the same could be said about a lot his beliefs (in the threeboot, the only evidence at all is that his brother has a star of David on his nightstand). He's generally been portrayed more physical than philosophical. We've heard more about Jan and Tasmias spiritual beliefs than any of the Earth-folk.

Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl and Invisible Kid II were Christians (note the Christening of Grayam) and Jacques said during the LSH 59 (baxter) i believe.

Ooh, I'd forgotten that Jacques used to say 'Sacre Mere' every now and then, a reference to the Virgin Mary.

Yah know.
I remember suggesting on the DC boards, oh ten or more years ago, that DC should add a book teaming the big 3, rather than just having Batman and Superman together.

I suggested that they call the book, Trinity!

I'm rather proud of that, and Umbra, whom I also suggested right down to her name.
I know it's just coincidence, but still.

And I wasn't thinking of the Godhead at the time of the Trinity suggestion, either.

[snip]

Whoa. I wasn't saying that it shouldn't have been done. I remember seeing the page that Nightcrawler posted (before I was reading any superhero comics at all, so it must have been at a friend's house) and thinking it was pretty cool. I already knew that a lot of famous comic book creators were Jewish, and it bugged me that there never seemed to be any characters that were. Young as I was, I still knew that there was something "off" about that.

No reason why they couldn't both be under the same umbrella, so to speak. Judaism has plenty of divisions and sects already. Who knows how many more there'd be once the faithful were all living several planets away from one another.

If you wanted to upend negative stereotypes, a surefire way to do it would be to make the poorest planet in the U.P. heavily populated by Jewish people.

[snip]

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I think though that having a whole group of people with NO beliefs in or versions of God would be just as unrealistic and intrusive as having EVERYONE with them.
And that's my opinion.

The closest thing I remember to a Legionnaire with an open "no belief" policy would be Brainiac Five, when he argued with Dawnstar and she told him that he was "incapable of seeing beyond anything but your wretched machines!" That's a strong implication of Atheism, even if it wasn't openly stated as such.

Though to be honest, I don't think of Atheism as "lack of belief." It's only a different set of beliefs.

[snip]

I always thought of Kal-El as being more a metaphor for the immigrant experience: Nobody has to know who I am. Nobody must know who I am. How can I do good in this place where nobody is like me, without risking a revelation of who I am? What will everyone say when they know? What will they do?

[snip]

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Gim has never worn his identity on his sleeve, but the same could be said about a lot his beliefs (in the threeboot, the only evidence at all is that his brother has a star of David on his nightstand). He's generally been portrayed more physical than philosophical. We've heard more about Jan and Tasmia's spiritual beliefs than any of the Earth-folk.

I haven't read all of threeboot, so the cynic in me had naturally assumed that the retcon had been unretconned. Thanks for letting me know that I was mistaken.

Thank You!

I'd seen this before but flaked out on bookmarking it and then promptly forgot where it was!

Super-heroes in general (particularly those with secret identities) are often also considered metaphors for the closeted gay experience.

Humdrum 'normal' life, oh so carefully keeping the secret (and often having sub-plots involving keeping their 'other life' secret from friends and family) and looking just like everybody else, followed by a flamboyantly-dressed and extroverted secret life at night where the hero gets to come out and show off and 'be themself.' Spider-man is a classic example. Nebbish normal life, somewhat geeky and self-conscious, with a totally over-the-top and 'flamboyant' masked persona.

None of the superheroes need to actually be gay (or immigrants, or Jewish) to often serve as metaphors (or even inspirations) for members of those communities.

I've reread the Levitz interview a couple of times now, and each time I'm a little taken back when he drops the f-bomb ... anyone else having the same "omigod, Mr. Rogers cursed" kinda feeling?

[snip]

Yeah, but Superman was the first one to wear a leotard, I think. Okay, The Scarlet Pimpernel wore stockings and Zorro wore a mask, but...

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...None of the superheroes need to actually be gay (or immigrants, or Jewish) to often serve as metaphors (or even inspirations) for members of those communities.

Yes, but this shouldn't be a one-way street. Let's see all fans, including those in dominant groups (that is, those most likely to be "the norm" or "the default") try out their skills at identifying with somebody who is openly (as opposed to just metaphorically or by subtle implication) Not Like Them. Otherwise it smacks of power-over relationships and a double standard, to me.

Not... really. Not since I heard what a drunken Rogers would sound like.

so is this new book the legion kids from day one or is it a team made up of all the reboots somehow?

I haven't bought comics in almost a year now..but with the announcement that Gail Simone will be back with a new run of Birds of Paradise AND Levitz will be writing "my" Legion--guess I'll be giving DC some cash again.

The art looks GREAT, even if I'm still not crazy about some of the costumes. I'll be happy with pretty much anything though. I just want lots of Nura and Dirk, and Jeckie to go back to being PROJECTRA and ditch the whole Sensor Girl thing.

I can't wait for this, I've read some old issue of Paul's run because I haven't been able to get some of the trades of it and I am confident that it will be good. So I can't wait and the art looks awesome and can't wait for two Legion books! I hope they give out promotional Legion Rings like the Green Lantern and Flash ones they are.

I would like to see a back-up feature of 'lost' stories set back in the Legion's past with a rotation of favorite former Legion artists.

Bah. All those "favorites" are probably retired and living it up in Florida now. They haven't got time for us anymore!

[slips DC knowjack's portfolio while nobody's looking]

There's a new interview at Newsarama.

I'm amused that Levitz says he can write quickly, because he remembers when it didn't pay well.



But I really have to learn to stop reading comment threads for these things. YouTube and the local newspaper should've taught me that long ago, but I keep forgetting...

I want these books in my hands now!