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Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602934 11/17/08 07:33 AM
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Originally posted by Matthew E:
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Originally posted by Tromium:
[b]Just to prove I'm not a bad sport when I'm proven wrong, here's a link to an LA Times article wherein Didio all but confirms that "Adventure" will star the LSH.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2008/11/dc-sends-superm.html#more

Speculation: it won't be the grizzly Adult Legion currently appearing in LO3W but a younger version of it -- with "superboy". DC will rewrite LSH history in contemporary, post-FC continuity -- leaving no doubt whatever it's effectively rebooted the Legion again.

Thoughts: I wonder if Didiot is so painfully stupid he doesn't realize of irony of relaunching "Adventure Comics" only months after he's fired one of the legendary creators who made that title great.
I think and hope that DC won't do another reboot. I believe that they've finally learned that reboots aren't the way to go; I've seen quotes from DiDio and, I think, others to that effect. And I've certainly written enough letters to them telling them so. [/b]
I think they should rewrite every single Legion story with new artwork, with also new dialogue (by Sterling Gates, or whover is pals with Johns) in order to please everyone who thinks Legion is about youthful optimism, cute lil' costumed crimefighters and bright colorful 31st Century.
This way, old time fans wil be pleased (since all stories will be coherent with the original purpose to the point of not changing a single idea!) and new readers will understand why Legion only got itself a title with its own name 20 years later.

Yes, I am being sarcastic. By the way, boo to rebooting Adventure Comics to number 1 all over again. And for reprinting ADV 247 for the upteenth time.

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602935 11/17/08 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by Ricardo:
I think they should rewrite every single Legion story with new artwork, with also new dialogue (by Sterling Gates, or whover is pals with Johns) in order to please everyone who thinks Legion is about youthful optimism, cute lil' costumed crimefighters and bright colorful 31st Century.
YES! I agree with you Ricardo. I'd love to see them do this too! Good call!

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602936 11/17/08 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by Tromium:
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Originally posted by Matthew E:
[b]I think and hope that DC won't do another reboot. I believe that they've finally learned that reboots aren't the way to go; I've seen quotes from DiDio and, I think, others to that effect. And I've certainly written enough letters to them telling them so.
DC has *already* rebooted the Legion again, and all that remains of its venerable original history are the "big stories". Lightning Lad died saving Earth and was resurrected with the lightning rods. Computo reduced Triplicate Girl to Duo Damsel. Ferro Lad sacrificed himself to save the solar system. And so forth. **Everything else is fair game to be rewritten in the new continuity.** It's the same tactic DC has taken with its rebooted Superman. You pointed out yourself that the LL and SG on the cover don't look like any versions of the "originals". That's probably because they aren't -- no more than the versions of them currently appearing in LO3W.

My remaining question is whether the new/old continuity will be told in flashback, or the characters will actually be "youthenized" (pun intended) at the end of LO3W.[/b]
Lo3W is a Time Trapper story. Quite easily everything since A247 could just be the Trapper's doing. After wiping him from the timeline, "only now" with ADV 1 will the 'true' story of the LSH without TT interference be told. I wouldn't count on the action legion being around after either. They and the other LSHs could end up like the Adult Legion was back in the day. Randomly appearing in DCU books.

Until the next editor in chief at least.

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602937 11/17/08 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by Tamper Lad:
Lo3W is a Time Trapper story. Quite easily everything since A247 could just be the Trapper's doing. After wiping him from the timeline, "only now" with ADV 1 will the 'true' story of the LSH without TT interference be told.
Or, in other words, we have always been at war with Oceania.

Tromium: I know what you mean, but I don't call it a reboot because Johns didn't start over from scratch. It's less of a reboot than the Glorithverse was, really.

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602938 11/17/08 08:06 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Tamper Lad:
Lo3W is a Time Trapper story. Quite easily everything since A247 could just be the Trapper's doing. After wiping him from the timeline, "only now" with ADV 1 will the 'true' story of the LSH without TT interference be told. I wouldn't count on the action legion being around after either. They and the other LSHs could end up like the Adult Legion was back in the day. Randomly appearing in DCU books.

Until the next editor in chief at least.
LO3W will end with Old Trappy turning the Legion into babies.

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602939 11/17/08 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by Tromium:
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Originally posted by Tamper Lad:
[b] Lo3W is a Time Trapper story. Quite easily everything since A247 could just be the Trapper's doing. After wiping him from the timeline, "only now" with ADV 1 will the 'true' story of the LSH without TT interference be told. I wouldn't count on the action legion being around after either. They and the other LSHs could end up like the Adult Legion was back in the day. Randomly appearing in DCU books.

Until the next editor in chief at least.
LO3W will end with Old Trappy turning the Legion into babies. [/b]
Either that, or characters will talk like ones. We've seen that before, during the Reboot.

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602940 11/17/08 08:13 AM
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By thw way, it just occured to me: will REBELS be a 21st Century book, or a 31st Century book? Read again the blurb and you will notice that they talk just about the future and a "team of 31st Century" heroes and villains... Is DC doing more screw-ups than I thought?

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602941 11/17/08 08:15 AM
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Originally posted by Matthew E:
[b]Tromium: I know what you mean, but I don't call it a reboot because Johns didn't start over from scratch. It's less of a reboot than the Glorithverse was, really. [/b]
I don't distinguish between degrees of reboot. A reboot is a reboot is a reboot. The Glorithverse was (imo) a complete reboot with new characters modeled on the old. Ditto for the Johnsboot.

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602942 11/17/08 08:24 AM
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Frankly I think the Final Crisis will essentially undo the Crisis on Infinite Earths, and the Legion will be key in the undoing.

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602943 11/17/08 08:26 AM
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Legion returning to Adventure Comics, nothing could please me more. An excellent decision for the 50th anniversery. The Legion deserves it. My hopes...they are young again and are the original characters. If all of this is correct....Thanks DC, you made one fan VERY HAPPY!


I have lived for the Legion and one day I shall die for the Legion.
Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602944 11/17/08 08:27 AM
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Well, judging by the vast array of predictions in this thread alone, if DC is doing one thing right, it's keeping its readers guessing!

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602945 11/17/08 08:48 AM
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Its also clear that the Zero-Hour reboot was supposed to be the orginal characters.

I recently saw a DC house ad for a volume of LSH Archives. "See the past and the future of the Legion of Super-Heroes". The suggestion is that the stories in the archives would eventually be retold in a 90s manner.

When Waid did the threeboot he said that this was his big mistake in the 2-boot. So he went completely the opposite direction with 3-boot.

So they've gone the other way again. This looks like a reboot where they try to go to a very strict interpretation of redoing the silver age, until some hot writer decides that the leash is too short asks the editor for some slack and then the fans'll say that these aren't the orginals. When clearly from the start the originals are only available in those hardcovers.

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602946 11/17/08 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by Ricardo:
By thw way, it just occured to me: will REBELS be a 21st Century book, or a 31st Century book? Read again the blurb and you will notice that they talk just about the future and a "team of 31st Century" heroes and villains... Is DC doing more screw-ups than I thought?
In Shooter's latest issue of LSH Dream Girl says something to B5 about him being sent to the past soon. I'm thinking that the 3-Legion might end up there. Heck Brainy-3boot might actually become Vril.

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602947 11/17/08 09:00 AM
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Originally posted by Tromium:
here's a link to an LA Times article wherein Didio all but confirms that "Adventure" will star the LSH.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2008/11/dc-sends-superm.html#more

Speculation: it won't be the grizzled Adult Legion currently appearing in LO3W but a younger version of it -- with "superboy". DC will rewrite LSH history in contemporary, post-FC continuity -- leaving no doubt whatever it's effectively rebooted the Legion again.

Thoughts: the irony of relaunching "Adventure Comics" only months after he's fired one of the legendary creators who made that title great.
Considering, which cover they chose for the story, what was Didio's opinion on that I wonder or did he choose it to smooth the road a bit? I'd love to see Shooter write some of the new Adventures.

Ricardo's sarcastic point I think is, that with updated art and Johns anywhere in the vicinity, these aren't going to be the same bright hopeful.... we "remember."

I suspect we'll get, the original stories with details filled in, missing or referred to adventures all told with more realistic teen/young adult portrayals.

Some stories I don't think will tell as well. Those goofy Computo's so looked like what might be portrayed in the ads. Nowadays what would they look like, PS3s?

Most of the other stories would probably be great but wouldn't some $$$ be owed to the original scriptors?

ps: that Batman panel is amazing, would love to have that as a poster.

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602948 11/17/08 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by Tamper Lad:
I am glad that DC has finally come around to my thinking that the only appearances of the original legion were written by Otto Binder and that all subsequent legions are phony. tongue
Yay! I totally support this!

Except why are they giving us this cover with those phony costumes! "Lightning Lad?" Sheesh! Give me Lightning Boy!

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602949 11/17/08 10:42 AM
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Tromium: I understand your point. But I think that this is one of the situations where you lose information by boiling the situation down to a binary opposition (in this case: reboot vs. not a reboot). My reading of the post-Crisis era and the 5YL era is that the writers were trying to preserve as much continuity as they could in difficult circumstances. As such, they're different from the post-Zero-Hour reboot and the post-Infinite-Crisis threeboot, in which nothing was preserved.

Tamper Lad: Which original character was XS supposed to be?

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602950 11/17/08 12:39 PM
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The fact that the Legion contin ues brings great joygasm to me.
I knew DC couldn't be stupid enough to have them star in a big Final Crisis event series AND introduce them on Smallville if they were just gonna kill the franchise.

Long Live the Legion!


Go conquer the universe for me...for the god whose image you have carved your own homeworld as a monument.Go... for your master...
For Darkseid!
Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602951 11/17/08 04:50 PM
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I don't believe that this months JSA solicit is listed here but it's possible that Geoff Johns is leaving that title given that Jerry Orday is listed as the co-writer for that month....opting out of one giant team to take on another?


As for what happened and what didn't and what's original etc...I think by now Geoff Johns has shown a clear track record of...everything happened and he attempts to do his best to get everything in the continuity.

While that may not work for some...IMO, it works better than anything else and he's proven to be able to pull it off successfully. I hope he's helming the relaunch of the Legion...IMO his JSA has actully surpassed any and all other versions of the JSA....hopefully he can do that with the Legion. While I am not certain of anything DC does...Geoff Johns is more often than not the suck free corner of the DC Universe these days.

What I am guessing is that the Legion launched out of LOTW will be the retro-template of all the others that have ever existed...IOW, this one will be the one that all the others we have read about came from...whether it be the SA Legion or the 5YG or the 3boot...all of them were an offshoot or a distilliation of an aspect of the one that is about to be launched...that's what Johns has a pretty clear track record of doing now.


It's awesome that the Legion is going back in Adventure...I mean that is just a blast...but hopefully there will be a second official Legion title coming along with it.

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602952 11/17/08 05:30 PM
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Now if only they could bring back More Fun Comics with McSnurtle the Turtle and team him up with the Super-Pets! Not to mention Nero Fox!

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602953 11/17/08 07:16 PM
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I still hope to see the return of the silliest elements of ADV, like whatever happened to the Brain-Globes of Rambat. If they are to become "youthful blahblahblah" again, they should do it radically campy.

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602954 11/17/08 07:52 PM
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haven't they said repeatedly that johns is too busy for legion?

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602955 11/17/08 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by veryvery:
haven't they said repeatedly that johns is too busy for legion?
Actually, it seems nobody knows exactly what is going on at DC, except that Peter J. Tomasi is writing every book these days.
From Rich Johnson, (who was right all along about Shooter getting screwed up at DC):

Quote
IT'S ARMAGEDDON 2001 ALL OVER AGAIN

[Yellow Light]A familiar source known collectively as "New York comics industry employees talking in bars" tells me that the last issue of "Final Crisis" is further delayed as it is suffering from serious rewrites. It appears that DC Executive Editor Dan DiDio was unhappy with the way the story concluded and the implications for the DC Universe for a while and had ordered changes from a, naturally, rather unhappy Grant Morrison. Considering this is the way he wrote the pitch for the book.

As a result, creative teams working on a number of spinoff and affected books have also had to stop work while the “Final Crisis” ending is reworked.

Expect more lateness, more annoyance and less likelihood of Grant Morrison doing DCU work in the near future.

STARDUST

[Yellow Light]Morrison is not the only person having difficulties with DiDio's direction. I understand that James Robinson and Dan had a stand up argument that led to Robinson quitting the Superman books and the DCU in general.

SMALL SCREEN TO BIG PANELS

[Green Light]Dan DiDio is currently in the process of recruiting film and TV writers for their books. The recent “Batman: Cacophony” by Kevin Smith and Walt Flanagan has been cited, apparently the script was perfect, with very little editing needed.

This, of course, would be the comic where the The Joker offers his bottom to be sexually violated by his rescuer, jokes about the colour of his pubic hair, a scene depicting genital torture and no sign of a Mature Readers tag.

BATTLE FOR THE CREDIT

[Yellow Light]Also, just who is writing "Battle For The Cowl?" Earlier in the year, before it was even announced, it was expected by many that it would be Grant Morrison, until he denied it.

Then recently, Fabian Nicieza, author of the soon-to-be-cancelled-and-replaced "Robin" series, stated that Judd Winnick would be the author.

Then Dan DiDio announced that Tony Daniel would be both writing and drawing the series.

Times they are a changing.
Tony Daniel!!! Way to go, DC! I can only imagine the new Legion writer... Probably Judd Winick...

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602956 11/17/08 08:57 PM
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bout REBELS#1 - Validus....? but his skin is green, not Purple?

AND

Emerald Eye? the youthful Sarya? Hmmm....

The wildfire looks to be a female...Lady Quark revamped?

nonetheless, I am pretty much intrigued.

Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602957 11/18/08 06:28 AM
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The Emerald Eye person looks less like a youthful Sarya and more like a teenaged boy who thought that guys could wear Tinya's pants.

And that does kind of look like a female Wildfire. As long as 'she' doesn't get in a whiny, emo, 'I can't touch you' relationship with a male Dawnstar, I'm okay with that.


Wrapped Around Your Finger now complete in BITS!
Re: Legion February 2009 Solicitations and Images ... SPOILERS
#602958 11/18/08 11:04 AM
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This is so cool... in some way... Didio should have been fired months ago when he messed up the Countdown -> Final Crisis continuity. Now, instead of firing him, DC is risking him pissing off their money cow Morrison and losing another revered writer with James Robinson. Way to go!

I don't know if they are blind or if Didio owns polaroids of some very embarrassing private parties of the DC/Warner leadership circles...

... but on the other hand, I find it rather funny that Morrison, in some eyes a god-become-writer whose cryptic work only a privileged few can fully fathom, is being reduced to being just another comic book writer by Dan Didio. A little bit of schadenfreude from the German guy here wink

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