Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Legion on Smallville

I really liked it.

I didn't take the Legion "almost" killing to serious. I don't think they could've done it regardless. It reminded me of an old Adv. comic plot.

I would've like Cos less grungy but it fits the show. Infact everything kind of fit.

I've seen Smallville try to incorporate some comic book characters and I have to say this was one of the better ones.

Would love to see Clark visit the 31st century.

You know...I've not really liked smallville since the first couple of "comic integration" episodes with other heroes. I loved this episode for what it was and regardless of my little gripes here and there as well as what everyone said already I think it was probably one of smallville's better episodes.

The episode stands up to repeated viewings. I've now watched it 3 times and it's fun each time. You sort of catch those little thing you missed the first time around. The look on Imra's face as she nods to Cosmic Boy to "do the deed" since obviously Garth can't do it (stabbing Chloe). I missed the "Levitz museum" nod the first time around. This was a nice tribute to Levitz and it shows us that Johns admires him a lot.
Getting back to that huge negative about the show... I really didn't like the fact that Cos was about to finish the job, the knife was heading straight down into Chloe's chest, and if Clark hadn't stopped him just when he did it would have been all over. I think we needed to see a bit more hesitation and debate about "the right thing to do" or "what needs to be done" before Garth voluntarily agrees to do it.
Like I said earlier, it's only a one hour show and you need that drama and a climax to push the plot forward, but still it vilified our heroes to the viewing audience a bit. Hopefully this didn't spoil their presence on the show to the fans of Smallville too much. It has such a vast veiwership and is one of the most watched television shows out today.
If this episode hits the high ratings that I suspect it will, not only will we see the Legion again (if there's a season 9) but the interest with the sci-fi fans around the globe is sure to do wonders in helping future comic sales for any book with the words 'Legion Of Super-Heroes' attached to it.

This helps us fanatics quite a bit though, right?

As for the actors involved I think they played their parts perfectly (and did a little homework on the Legion I suspect).
I had some reservations at first seeing the promo clips and pics last year, just like everybody else on here, but really the kids did an awesome job showing us a glimps of who the Legion is and what they're all about. They all looked and acted well too (well, maybe just a bit too much eye shadow on Imra in the last 15 minutes of the show) ;-)

Too bad this wasn't a 2-hour or two-part special or something! Oh well ... maybe next time.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned here yet that I thought I would see is the omission of the "of Superheroes" from the Legion in the episode. Obviously, it makes sense in the Smallville-verse, but seeing as how there's typically so much nit-picking among our fandom, it's a little surprising it hasn't been brought up.

Personally, I've no problem with the omission. But I'm very surprised that hasn't been among the gripes brought up in this thread.

I enjoyed it as well.

The intent to kill was pretty bothersome to me, as it was to many, apparently. I figured that I would have been okay with it if they had played-up the billions-will-die-very-soon or the Chloe-is-already-dead rationals a bit more than they did. Otherwise, it was still a quick and depict-able way of showing how important Superman is to what the legion becomes. (Saying the inspiration is tolerance of other races is one thing, but it wouldn't have been easy to depict--especially given how human legionnaires look and the likely budget constraints.)

I'd love to see more of the legion on TV, but I suspect it would be a whole lot of teens staring at each other--like this episode--just because of how costly a lot of action would be. I think I'd prefer a mini-series, though. Full-blown series seem to need to inflate number of useless scenes more than I can tolerate.

My favorite part was seeing the flight rings. I don't know why that struck such a chord, but it did.

A lot said so far, but if ever there was a topic just asking for everyone to say what they think, this is it...

Quick summary of my own feelings: had I gotten a chance to post right afterward, I'd have started out mentioning that I had just...well, to clean it up... "arrived in my trousers."

Let me first follow that with this: I am one of the BIGGEST fans of the code against killing. 10 or so years back, when I was still posting on the 'rec.arts' NG, I was the one who started the "Inferno Defamation League" because I was SO afraid they would let her join after she had been shown to kill in cold blood.

HOWEVER, saying that the code is intrinsic to the legion *and* that it should have been there ALREADY is to treat the LSH as a static entity. The code had to start SOMETIME, and I think it is a little ABSURD to think that three adolescents who just started a superhero team would think of that first thing...I think it is much more realistic that something or someone would need to convince them of it.

ALSO, with only 1 hour, they had little time to establish many aspects of the LSH, so the fact that, IN THE END, they adopted that code means that the code against killing is one of the FEW aspects of the LSH that WAS established by this episode!!! I mean, I'm happier that they established it as STARTING now then just not even mentioning it at all.

ALSO, consider that BRAINIAC was literally like a disease/virus...it "leaked" its way into everything (even Chloe), so their thinking was much along the lines of the practice of containing a horrible disease...only this was a SENTIENT such disease bent on world destruction, which might even become GALACTIC destruction...

My only gripe in that area was I'd have liked to see a BIT more reluctance from Cos before he started the knife plunge...but then, there's only so much time in the episode.

Note also, based on the comment at the end about B5, we can presume this was early in the LSH's career.

(Note: while I do agree with what others said that it would be better to think that B5 already existed...esp. given that they have their flight rings... the exact wording is rather inescapable: "Let's hope Brainiac *5* is a little more friendly."... if they had meant to say Brainiac 5 would enjoy it as a project, they could have just said "I'm sure Brainiac 5 will be able to program it into something useful", or they'd have at least added the word "now" to the end of the first sentence. I suppose we COULD interpret it as Brainiac 4 exists, made the flight rings, but is grumpy(!))

Finally, let me just say how pleased I was that they basically went what I would call "balls out" and REALLY gave us the Legion. Other aspects of comicdom that have been incorporated into the show have usually been distant facsimiles (Brainiac being one, "cyborg" being another... Black Canary... the Flash .. Perry White ... etc.)

When I first heard they'd have an episode with the Legion, I thought we'd see three mysterious teens who help him, and only suggest at the end that they are from the future.

Instead, they DECLARE themselves as being "the Legion" ..they mention explicitly when they are from and what they do...used some CODE NAMES, and real names also ... and even had uniforms, appropriately de-cheesified...and Legion FLIGHT RINGS, complete with the L symbol (borrowed from a comic shop?) As someone who watches the show all the time, this went way beyond my expectations as to how fully they'd depict the LSH.

I *loved* giddy Garth (I guess you can say "ass" on TV now, a la "Get that magnet out of your ass"), embarrassed Rokk ("Garth, you're acting like a sub"), cerebral, semi-spacey Imra (I think it makes sense for her to be that way ... always distracted by hearing everyone's thoughts...).

Then, they top it off by establishing the existence of OTHERS in the Legion (and a mention of B5, regardless of chronology), and leaving Clark a way to go to he future...man!!! I thought there was no WAY that would happen.

If they keep up to a season 9 and run out of plot ideas...there it is. Notably, the show DOES have a tendency to re-visit plotlines form earlier episodes, so I'd not be surprised to see an ep. where he DOES go to the future....probably in dire need, I'd suspect. Whereupon, they'd probably re-hash the old "sorry, can't change the past" plot.... but still, we might get to see other legionnaires.

Don't know if anyone's mentioned it, but the actress who played Imra used to play Annie on So Weird. Going from someone interested in the paranormal to someone who was telepathic didn't seem like much of a stretch. It was pretty nice for So Weird fans. Almost couldn't recognize her though, so it's been a while that So Weird was off the air.

Would have liked the three Legion members to be more of an equal age. Cos seemed much older than everyone else.

The part about them wanting to kill bothered me a bit too, but only until they decided afterwards that would end up being their first Legion rule (not to kill).

Couldn't help wondering what Imra was hinting with in regards to Lana and why she left. My first thought was she'd gone 7 months and it was after last season, maybe a few months after she gained Clark's powers and the two were shaking up all of Smallville. Maybe she was pregnant. Then I remembered that would have been Lois's job as per the latest movie. Thought it over again and decided if the Legion was saying it, maybe they were just referring to Lana getting powers in some way and being a hero in her own right. I think she was supposed to be an honorary Legionaire in the earlier comic book version.

Interesting to see the use of Legion curse words, since they never made the animated series. Obviously it's an older audience.

Liked the reference to no one hearing of Chloe as most fans of other versions of Superman would not have. Would have liked an explanation why though.

Liked the combined powers of Cos and Lightning Lad. Would have liked to see Cos less serious and Lightning Lad slightly more serious (maybe more grown up). Nice that Garth was excited as a fan would be and it was cute of him to mention his sister. Obviously she isn't missing like she was in the animated series.

Someone mentioned Persuader disappearing when the ring was removed. Common sci fi plot is that when you remove the device keeping you in that time, you end up back where you were in your own time. That only left me wondering why the Legion went home after saying Long Live the Legion instead of by temporarily taking off the rings. I guess the rings really are thought controlled and they just had to think about home.

Liked all the touches where they kept up with Legion continuity and the long live the Legion shout at the end. Also liked seeing the Brainiac symbol.

Didn't like the portrayal of the bad guys much in this episode. For me, that was the part I didn't like the most. Anyone else notice Chloe's eyes seemed to get darker and darker circles the longer Brainiac took her over. Looked more like she had been crying and messing up her wedding makeup. Half expected Brainiac to download data to people's brains for storage rather than upload to himself. Is Earth really that rich in data? Going after each person's brain instead of just tapping the Internet or the Library of Congress seemed like a waste of time, especially since Brainiac hasn't bothered to do any of that data accessing accept when really necessary all the time he's been on Earth.

The reference to creating Brainiac 5 from Brainiac threw me as well. So who were 2 through 4 and how did the Legion know about that, but not about Clark's unwillingness to kill? Let's see, 4 would have been Chloe and she's blond. Does that make her Brainiac 5's mom? The 2nd incarnation had to be the female lab assistant in Lex's lab that Brainiac took over. The first was probably professor Fine's form. Lana couldn't be the third, could she? He took her over, but he was off with Kara, so I wouldn't consider that inhabiting her. Who was third? Liked a reference to Brainiac 5, but would have preferred they gave the program to Brainiac 5 to deal with (like Brainiac on the Watchtower in Static Shock episode), not that he'd be useful in creating Brainiac 5. Wanted more info on how this would play out and we just didn't get it.

I doubt we'll see Smallville go to the future because of budget constraints, but it's nice they left the door open. Sounds like Lana convinced Clark they have to work out their own problems and not bug the future for answers though. Would be nice to see Legion members guest in the future the way Justice League members sometimes do though.

I really hope this episode on Smallville means we'll see more interest in the Legion from other fans out there.

Rokk so hot... Garth so not.

The biggest thing I took away from the show was the definitive pronounciation of Winath as Why-nath... I've been pronouncing it Win-ath for over 30 years... I don't think I can break the habit now.

I wish Garth had mentioned Ayla by name so that one could be settled once and for all. I say Eh-lah not Eye-lah.

Ok, thanks for that. I guess that must be a newer plot device I haven't seen. Also, when they gave Clark the ring, Imra told him "just think of 3009," meaning concentrate on being there and he would. At least that's my take.

I'll say this, it has certainly got more discussion from a greater variety of posters on this board that most topics. Let's hope it draws interest to the Legion in general as well.
We can only hope .

Long Live the Legion!

i thought that was really odd, and it urked me for a second but its something i let go. nowadays the legion of superheroes, calls themselves just legion anyway it would have been nice for them to say the whole thing but then just call themselves legion for the rest of the episode


i thought it would have been nice if someone would have mentioned that cos is part of the superman cult

i've always said win-ath too! i still prefer win-ath.


and i noticed chloe's make up getting darker and darker...i thought she was gonna end up green (ish) at the end of the episode.

now that i'm thinking about it, some of those old adv stories were kinda fracked up. a good amount of people died (maybe more so than current eras), some stories were just bizarre, they fought in wars, exorcisms etc....(they were drawn so innocently that it took the edge off though, no gore)

maybe its not SOOOOO out there to think of them going to defcon one so quickly. but i doubt the writers were thinking of this as they wrote...probably were just writing for effect. (but the characters were mainly true to type)

ooo Legion Smallville is number 5 on the top tv episodes on itunes right now! can't hurt for a legion comeback.

secretly?! secretly, i hope to one day write the legion. *gross, i know*. but in order to get around the "winath" pronunciation thing i would say that... winathi could easily be an inflected language!! so... pronounced differently for different purposes in a sentence!!

ANYWAYS THAT'S WHAT I WAS IMMEDIATELY THINKING WHEN HE PRONOUNCED IT THAT WAY. *suicide from nerd shame*

the word 'superheroes" is reeeeeallly embarrassing to me so i prefer the non-OSH part of LOSH. not so bad in print but hearing it verbalized is like "OHHH GOD". anything to lure more people to the legion-nerd side!! COME TO ME, NEW FANS!!

very very, no need to be offin' yerself from a nerdgasm. Enjoy your nerdhood. Celibrate it.

after all, now many "nerds" grow up to have successful careers later on when they are old enough to appreciate it, while "legions" of high school cool kids and jocks go on to ignominious fade-outs in real life.

Be proud of who you are. If legion makes you squee, enjoy.

I've spent twenty years correcting the way people pronounce "Orygun." Before that, I was the person everyone who already lived here had to correct.

That's life, I guess.

It may be the least discussed open Legion secret of the Silver Age: <span class="spoiler_containter"><span class="spoiler_wording">Click Here For A Spoiler</span><span class="spoiler_text">Although he did it to save the life of the girl he loved, along with the lives of all the rest of his Legion friends, Lightning Lad DID KILL Zaryan the Conqueror. Subsequently, Garth Ranzz never suffered any ramifications for his justifiable actions. Therefore, originally, the Legion Code did sanction killing when unavoidable (however, it could have been argued that since the Legion Leader had just suspended him for a month, Garth was acting on his own accord and not as a Legionnaire).</span></span>

Thus their reaction to this aspect of the plot was not too troubling nor out of character for the Legionnaires. Overall, the xenophobia angle seemed more out of place. Still, it was highly entertaining and inspires hope for a Legion spin-off...

If you count the cartoon, they had a whole episode focused on Ayla, pronounced as you say it: "Eh-la" instead of "Eye-la".

I found it to be an enjoyable hour on the whole. Not perfect, but I expect I will watch it again.

The big question in my mind after watching was "How exactly did Brainiac's defeat become such a famous event?" Do people remember being taken over? I don't watch Smallville, but it was clear that Clark is not a public figure - he doesn't yet wear a costume, his status as a superhuman is not widely known. Is Brainiac's existence publicly known within the Smallvilleverse?
So, my beef is that the consequences (for anyone beyond the principals) of the events of this story have been completely ignored. Perhaps something will be done with this in subsequent episodes, but I'm not likely to be watching.

One more thing: the Legionnaires did end up changing history. When they arrived, they said that Clark was supposed to defeat Brainiac by sending it into the Phantom Zone; but at the end, they took Brainiac with them to the 31st century!

I want to credit some of the directorial decisions we saw (Mr. Johns could be responsible for some of these as well; the roles of director and writer do often mesh on the set).
Opening establishing shot tips the entire ep via the wedding banner(a very Shakespearean way to begin, e.g. Hamlet). No banter twixt Kal and the Persuader made the action seem more severe. The first hint of the Legionnaires being on TV at last is NOT the expected head or group shot but rather a visualization of one of the heroes' powers! And the focus going straight to the ring on Cos' hand was brilliantly fan-firendly-tastic!
Note in the first formal appearance that the scene is shot such that we are looking UP to the Legion members from Clark's perspective, which I took as a subtle homage to events in the comics.
The action count roughly mirrors what we got in the Adv. series: twice using powers for battle and once in a humanitarian effort;(Garth "throws" bolts while Cos "shapes" the magetic fields and Imra gives the obligatory "salute to the temple." )
We even got a brief glimpse of the three aloft and the ground-level shot of boots meeting turf was an effective way to simulate them landing within the constraints of a "no flights" budget policy.
They exited in a flare of nostalgia and notice that they were all looking up. Very nice!
I found it an excellent effort that reflected a great deal of care for the fans of the Legion in all their scenes. Long Live the Legion indeed!

I like the Legion episode.
Imra and Rokk, very good.
But Garth.....Can you imagine Ayla with his face?

sure can imagine - look at Ginny Wheatley - cute and spunky girl in Harry Potter - perfect for Ayla!

This makes me really like Rokk. Probably my favourite portrayal of him yet. This whole episode came off better than I expected.

DC should have re-issued the Legion ring to go with this episode. It looked really cool throughout.

It seemed to imply that Earthlings have some superior respect for life that's absent from other planets' races, even in the 31st century. I'm all for Yay Earth! but this seemed sort of contributing to the xenophobia.

Next Legion episode - Brainiac 5 is a must!

The bit about 'they didn't have human parents' thing did fall a bit flat for me.

Yes, I know that *specifically* the Kents were awesome and it makes sense in that context. But that's not what was said in that line. What was said was that human parents were better than Braalian, Winathian or Titanian parents.

I take it as just a clunky line, and in my head convert it to praise for how the Kents raised Clark, not a slam at Titan-mom or Winath-dad.

rick,

I totally misread your comment. I thought you told vv to "Celibate" nerdhood. I almost laughed outloud until I reread the line and realized my mistake.

I took it as, here were a group of teenagers with no parents. They were off as members of the Legion with no parental guidance. How would Clark and friends in Smallville know they had families of their own back in the 31st century? Clark didn't usually run off on missions (of his choosing) when he was in high school (in Smallville version anyway). I guess they assumed the Legion members wouldn't be off doing dangerous work if they were living at home with parents as their parents would be more protective of them.