Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes AVENGERS: the best LSH book?

He wasn't lying, Jorge, he was joking. I was on that thread.

Hickman isn't a huge fan of superhero comics. But he's cited two, and exactly two, comics that he loved; The Legion of Super-Heroes, especially Keith Giffen's 5YL run, and the New Mutants, especially the Bill S. years. Those are the only two franchises he'll admit to be invested in, as a fan (he stated over and over -- Fantastic Four, and even his creator owned stuff, those were just JOBS for him, like any other; he isn't personally invested in any of those, though he grew to be with Fantastic Four, which is why I think it's probably the best thing he's yet done).


It is interesting to me that the 5YL is common favorite among the very best new guys like John Hickman and Matt Kindt, and is vehemently hated by talented stars like Rob Liefeld....

Ah, he was joking. That makes more sense now. lol. I love Hickman. I loved his SHIELD series and his Avengers so far.

I'm a traditional Avengers fan and I just love his take so far. Love the new villains, etc.

I do too--I think he's brilliant.

Can anybody explain to me what is so good about this book?

I picked up the first issue (as I loved Hickmans Fantastic Four & Manhattan Projects and enjoyed Shield) but the book did not grab me at all.

Did it pick up subsequently or have I missed something?

If you didn't like it before, you won't like it now I suspect.

Things it has in its favor; it's got sharp dialogue. It's got inventive big-concepts. It's got lots of action.

Things against: It lacks real character work. It's decompressed in the - extreme -, to the detriment. It focuses a bit too much on shock value.


I find it FAR superior to Hypernaturals though. DnA have completely come off the rails for me post-Legion. A shame, as I LOVED their work on the early Legion stuff and the first volume of Resurrection Man.

After reading issues 4-7, it has never been clearer that DC should be absolutely ashamed of themselves (with a VERY FEW exceptions) for the crap they are currently publishing.

We're in a rare era where the Avengers comics and X-Men comics are all far superior to all the Legion and Justice League comics.

DC should rightly feel ashamed.

Hickman's Avengers is the best the title has been since Busiek left the book all those years ago. It's even better than his already stellar run on FF in my opinion.
The book I have been looking forward the most every two weeks.

Haha, it's fun to see Hickman legitimately trolling Legion fans now.

Today, latest issue, he's got Hyperion screaming "AAIIEEEEE", which is LEvitz's signature exclamation of pain.

And again in today's New Avengers, with Wong screaming AIEEE!!

Hilarious.

So, you can tell things must be headed south for the Legion, because Bouncing Boy seems to have bolted for his own new title at Image. On the one hand, he's looking nice and fit. On the other hand, he's seems to have become a pothead.

Considering Image made "consuming odd types of matter" cool with Chew, there's no end to the Legion concepts they can mine for fantastic series!

In fact, I might start working on an edgy Ron Karr-ish type pitch now!

Why, just imagine what type of comic Image could publish if Howard Chaykin spent some time considering Camera Eye having his own series! I'm not sure there is even a word for the type of sexual act he'd surely include.

I'll give Hickman credit for scope of ambition but the story is plodding along. I feel like there needs to be some form of resolution to these bio-bomb sites other than mere containment. The introduction of New Universe elements was interesting but again, fell off because of the glacial pace of the story.

For my money, Remender is doing much better over on Uncanny Avengers. There's actual tension within the group, the story is pacing rather well as the Red Skull moves from the Opening Act to an ongoing sub-plot. It's fun to read...something I can't quite say the same about Hickman's Avengers.

AVENGERS may be the best current LSH title, but UNCANNY AVENGERS is definitely my current favorite Marvel comic (or comic, period maybe)!

FYI, It's not just the Liefelds of the world who vehemently hate 5YL.

Gods, this just gets worse and worse for me. Like I said in another thread, Hickman is the last writer I'd ever want working on the Legion. His Avengers/Secret Wars run may have started with promise, but it devolved over time into one of the worst things I've ever read. And I think his FF isn't a patch on Simonson's FF.

And I won't give him even a one-issue chance. I don't want to contribute to his royalties.

FWIW, I do agree with him that New Mutants was good and the Sienkiwicz issues were great.

I've always been partial to the pre-Sienkiewicz New Mutants issues, especially the Bob McLeod-drawn stuff. Everything just got too dark and too weird after that, all the way thru the Louise Simonson run until Liefeld turned it into pre-X-Force.

As a teenager, I was a little freaked out by the demon bear, primarily because of Sienkiewicz's artwork. It has remained my favorite period for the New Mutants ever since.

Fair enough. And I don't think everything Claremont did during the Sienkiewicz era worked (I'm thinking particularly of turning Tom and Sharon from Caucasians into Native Americans.) But when it was good, it was really good.

What do you think of New Mutants Annual #2, Lardy? The New Mutants-plus-Captain Britain-and-Psylocke vs. Mojo story is one of my personal Top Three Claremont scripts; and it doesn't hurt that Alan Davis drew it.

I'll honestly have to re-read NM some time. I haven't read them since they originally came out. It's quite possible my reaction to the Sienkiewicz era would be totally different now. So, yeah, it's hard to remember my reaction to the annual you mention. I remember clearly, though, that my favorite New Mutants issue ever was the Special Edition, which obviously came out well after the McLeod era..

Ooh, the Special Edition that tied into the Asgard Wars!! Good stuff! I think the Asgard Wars was the best extended storyline that the X-Books did in the 80s.

Yes, and it was relatively short and self-contained with half of it drawn by Art Adams and the first half by Paul Smith. An excellent story and the New Mutants SE was very important to the NM and worked well as a fairly self-contained epic on its own.

I loved that New Mutants SE. It was in my backpack for months until it fell apart and I had to buy a new one. I kept on fantasizing about being trapped with them in their journeys.

I think the unsung heroine of the Asgard Wars and of NM in general was the X-Books' then-editor, Ann Nocenti.