Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Superman/Batman #18 - SPOILERS!

It finally arrived. Was it worth the wait? IMHO - No. But, did I expect it to? No.

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Read no further, unless you want to know what happens.

If I remember correctly, Superman revives Bruce Wayne's memories of being Batman in a new reality in which his parents had never died. They then, ressurect the JLA (Green Lantern, Flash, Martian Manhunter, and Aquaman) who were all killed (again in this altered reality) by Ras Al Ghul who rules the planet (in this reality). The assembled heroes confront Ras, who is allied with the LSV (Lightning Lord, Saturn Queen, & Cosmic King, along with Echo & Beauty Blaze).

The dead heroes lose and die again. For some reason, Superman is forced to sacrifice himself to restore Batman's sense of loss. Batman is able to then kill Ras, which screws up this timeline. Echo & Beauty Blaze are thus wiped out of existence. After defeating the LSV, Supes and Bats set things right. They use Darkseid's temporal Boom Tube to bring them into an alternate future and deliver them to an Adult Legion.

After that, they return to their proper time. During the journey, they re-experience the post-Crisis universe with one odd exeption - Pre-Crisis Supergirl's death during Crisis?!?!?

Someone explain this to me!

Loeb + sense = doesn't go.

You may as well start referring to this title as ALL-STAR WORLD'S FINEST.

Maybe dropping in Supergirl's death is a hint of a change in the timeline and the upcoming crisis???

OOooooor, maybe that panel represents the memory of a Superman comic book he read....

I haven't picked up #18 yet, but I think it's been a fun romp.

You forgot the other major revelation!


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That the Kingdom Come Superman wasn't the Kingdom Come Superman.

He turns out to be from Alan Moore's "Whatever happened to the Man of Tomorrow?"

In other words....

....THE FREAKIN' PRE-CRISIS, SILVER AGE, EARTH 1 SUPERMAN!

This is pretty major.

Thanks Paul!

I was still reeling from the Supergirl memory.

Here's the Legion-related pages for you AR collectors out there -

all of this sounds like a pretty cool conclusion...but what does it mean in the great scheme of things?

We probably won't know that until we find out what's in store with the new Crisis.

Also, how are the LSV supposed to remain as Superman/Batman reoccurring villains? Which is what I believe Loeb said he intended to do when this storyline ended.

I was hoping to see adult Timber Wolf with his wee little mustache. Rats.

Still, thanks for the post Nighty.

NC, thanks for the scans. I won't be able to pick this up before the weekend. It's great seeing Tenzil again (what is he eating?) and "Dream Woman" looks great! Maybe the LSV will show up again in the All-Star Superman series. Its already been hinted that the SA Legion will. Hope lives eternal.

Are we sure that Cosmic King isn't Loser Lad moonlighting in a DC series for part time work?
Lightning Lord looks an awful lot like Sketch Lad's avatar too...hhhhmmmmm...I need a new agent.

I agree. I think this all ties into Infinte Crisis...

The answer is explained in the final quote from Brainiac 5 (in the scene above): "Be prepared. The journey back may allow you to see things that MAY HAVE BEEN or NEVER WERE as Time itself will do the healing."

This gives the freedom to show anything from the past (or future) of DC comics, including Golden Age, Silver Age, Pre-crisis, post-crisis, Marvel universe, Crossgen universe, Archie universe, Hypertime, or even Elseworlds! They may have shown scenes from post Infinite Crisis/Seven Soldiers.

We could have seen the LSH from Earth-C (Captain Carrot and his Amazing Zoo Crew world). We did see the scene from Crisis where Supergirl died among others.

I'm sure it's not really the intention but the presence of buzz-cut Brainiac shown in such close proximity to Dream Woman in consecutive panels made me think this could be the Waid/Kitson team really. Maybe they went to the Chapel of Love after all...

Thanks Risas. But, I guess I should be saying what was the point? That was the only image out of place from what I saw.

Actually, what was the point of the whole story?

I think I could accept it if no one remembers anything, but having Superman and Batman remember willfully murdering people is going to make it harder to accept the next encounter with the Joker or Lex (after one of them just caused some horrendous tragedy) and not kill them for it. Batman chopped Ras’ head off for gosh sakes!

Wonder Woman kills, the Justice League mind-wipes, and now Superman & Batman have memories of having little value to life. Sure, they’re supposed to “fade with time.” But, I’m a bit sick of my heroes being portrayed like this.

I can't say that buying five issues of this comic was worth it just for one single page but I sure did like the appearence of our old friend Kal-El.
Somehow it's comforting to know that The Man of Tomorrow is watching over the DCverse.

This timestream manipulation stuff gives me a headache, but everybody looked good.... thanks for posting those pages, Gary.

Now if DC could just stop killing or mutilating every other character... maybe it's just a phase they're going through.

Damn that self correcting Time Steam! If only my steam iron could do that...

Now that they've met the Adult Legion can the Composite Superman be far behind?

Ultimately, regardless of 'continuity' I see only good things:

1. long-banned pre-Crisis material is once again fair game - even if only as an alt timeline

2. The end of attempts emulate Stan Lee's tight 60s Marvel continuity, where if the Hulk farted, it would be referred to on Peter Parker's
transister radio, it would affect the outcome of a minor Reed Richards experiment, and cause Prof X's Cerebro to hiccup - all with an asterisk referring to the issue of Hulk, "now on sale!"

Let's worry more about good stories than keeping a single, stringent continuity!

3. There is no reason #3.

4. We could get an Earth-2 free of Roy Thomas' influence and overly-anal sense of continuity, and Golden Age Batman, Superman and a Womder Woman named Dina.

5. We could get JLA stories actually set in the 1960s.

6. I'm sure there are plenty of other good reasons.

Can't say I know what to think about this either. With all the delays, I lost interest. When it comes out in trade, I'll read it again... a storyline like this can read completely differently when read as a compilation.

I was surprised at the 'nostalgasm' I had at the sequence of the small panel of the HQ's base followed by the BIG panel of the upside-down spaceship... maybe should've been a whole page?

I thought that segment was done quite effectively.

I had the same nostalgasm when the LSV appeared with Echo and Beauty Blaze (with a southern accent!) in tow.

So, are the LSV going to be recurring 21st century villains? I remember mention of that earlier...

...they'd be a pretty nifty nucleus for a CRISIS-like event, wouldn't they?

Not that I *necessarily* want another one of those...

i'm just ecstatic at the new uniforms that've been shown for dreamy and brainy. it really conveys a maturity to the characters versus, for example, barry's designs that have a more youthful (of course) flavor to it.

I had that same feeling initially, but it was the costumes that threw me off. Cham's, in particular, is the "Adult Legion" version of his original costume. Still, they could be the Adult versions of the current team. If so, we really could see this new LSV again (despite the end).

As for them being recurring S/B villains, isn't Loeb leaving after the next arc anyway?