Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes Wizard and the Legion

That first article left me with an uncomfortable feeling in the pit of my stomuch. I don't want to be one of these people that run around hateing things with out seeing them but this is setting off alarm bells. That whole indie rock line definetly has me worried (I know the Nirvana reference was wizard) but its all a bit like when a politician says they like modern music then looks at there hand and says fran ferdinaz is one of there favourites. But on the upside Shikira is a very big get out of jail free card I see her very much like bishop in the xmen age of apocolyps story and 2 years down the road if this isnt working she can find her way back to the regular dcu.

thanks for posting the pages, gary!

woulda passed right by it -- i never even look at wizard -- too obnoxiously trying to appeal to 14 yr old wrestling fanboys (you know, the boys i avoided even when i was 14)

the coverage seemed weird ... nice layouts, attractive shots - which is good ... but i never got a sense of what they were aiming for in the articles besides an appeal to ANY and EVERY possible Wizard reader -- which puts it as a bunch of cleverly designed ads: pricing out the collection for the assumed collectors picking up wizard (and 4 alternative covers with their picklist), connecting the DC-related names on the top 10 monthly sales regularly (for those who care what 100,000 other people throw money at), connecting the Legion with the 1980s X-Men & Titans craze (for those who remember them as 'the good old days'), and general f*** 'em all boys who would only believe in 'real-ness' for credibility (the 'indie rock' comments)

sigh

nothing that even showcased the series with any kind of interesting & particular slant

ahhh well, i'm STILL looking forward to the launch

Valorie!

When you're right, you're right my friend!

So Waid wants to smack us in the face? Feh to him! I refuse to let me excitement twindle!

Smacking people in the face is a Legion tradition!

Jeepers! Waid is only doing what my hero Cosmic Boy would do!

I'm still excited here. If you think about it, there's nothing in the Wizard article that we haven't been exposed to before.

The names issue is one we'll never agree on. I found names like Live Wire, Spark and Apparation to be trite. Many of you say you find the Adventure era names to be trite. There's no solution here. Just be glad they didn't go for overly descriptive code names such as:

"Shoots Scary Ouchy Electricity From His Fingertips Boy"

"Gets Into Your Mind Girl"

"Lives in Two Dimensions As She Sees Fit Girl"

Too true Semi. Superman is more evocative of Nitzche than the sole survivor of some humongus alien planet orbiting a red star, Wonder Woman brings to mind the tight sweaters of the '40s more than it does some Greek Amazon Princess and Batman and Robin reminds me more of a name that might be used by a vaudevillian act rather than vigilantes swinging from rooftops operating under cover of the night.
They're just names. They might as well have been Clark the Great, Diana the Girl with the Golden Rope and Wealthy Bruce and the Circus Orphan. Catchy names help but they're not absolutely necessary. I'll bet people would watched Farenheit 911 even if he hadn't ripped off an old sci-fi title.

I for one am not taking the hardcore fan comments too seriously. While the great majority of fans here are positive, we've all encountered those "scary" fans who are vehement, obnoxious, and certain that they're right (I always think of those Green Lantern fans on the old DC boards bitching back and forth about Hal Jordan and Gnort). I think Waid et al might be talking about those guys. No way is he talking about me, anyways.

Thanks for the scans. Interesting. Hey, any pub is good pub. Just imagine if the series takes off, and the Legion regains its rightful place in the comics firmament!

Actually I could be wrong (Usually am) but doesn't she technically live in four demensions? and if quantum theory has taught us anything useful it is that Tinya should be able to travel through time.

I too noticed the plethora of Legion shout-outs in the new Wizard. Ultimately I think the increased visibility is good - it should at least lead some folks who wouldn't otherwise know about it or pick it up, to do so...

I really liked the codename Umbra....but that is me.

Me too, Jorg-El -- if only because I once created a character with similar powers to Tasmia's called Penumbra (long before the SW6 kids ever popped up)

I wish that they add one more thing that things many people did not know that: Saturn Girl was the first female to be a leader of any superhero team. Way before Storm, Skyrocket, Kid Quantum, Jean Grey, etc lead the group! Wizard should have list a lot of more firsts there! Anyway, looking at the bright side, I can't wait to get the Legion #1 real soon!!! when will it be out?

On the old DC board, we had a thread on LEGION firsts... there was an incredible amount of them, including "first chick leader".

"First chick leader"

That would Cos in the pink number then!

Nah, he was first MALE SUPERHERO WITH BUSTIER FOR A COSTUME!

I say "Huzzah!" to Mark Waid and DC for 1) buying so much Legion hype in Wizard and 2) explicitly pitching the book to new fans. This is exactly the right way to go, especially if you believe that the "impenetrable" meme has taken hold in minds the comic-reading public with regards to the Legion.

I myself have never believed that the Legion was impenetrable. I decoded it quite successfully at the age of 7. As a new reader, having mysteries to solve about the characters is a powerful inducement to buy the next issue.

However, if the book has gotten such a bad rep over the years, then the meme (a collective assumption) takes hold and people who might otherwise like the book will never try it. Waid and DC have to tackle this head-on, and it appears that they have. Not only are they hyping the book to new readers, but Waid and Kitson seem to have drawn on a number of tried-and-true storytelling techniques to acquaint new readers with multiple characters.

BTW, can you imagine a plausible counterfactual marketing strategy for a Legion book? "We've listened to what the hardcore fans wanted--all 10,000 of them, worldwide--and given them a seamlessly complicated blend of the pre-boot and post-boot Legion, including Shikari AND Dawnstar (no offense, Greybird)!" New readers are SURE to rush out and by that one.

At the risk of being overly prescriptive (a risk I take too often), I suggest the hardcore fan base ignore the Wizard hype--which is, after all, Wizardish--and look at what Waid and Kitson ARE giving us: a new book with many (not all) of our favorite characters, with great art and intriguing new character-driven stories that remain true to the spirit of the Legion we grew up with. As a hardcore reader pushing 40, I am just delighted to see DC really put a lot of effort into the Legion again.

Define "we".

And I don't want "a blend" of anything...

Thing is, the book enjoyed a good literary reputation the last five years. Rebooting it yet again (as opposed to "fixing" the existing continuity and characters) risks engendering the collective assumption that there's something inherently wrong with the LSH that requires drastic measures to fix, repeatedly. If I were a non-reader, I might view the LSH as damaged goods based soley on this implication. Whenever I see a product labeled "New, Better, Improved!", I'm immediately suspicious because it suggests earlier versions were badly flawed. The Wizard article, the way it is written, strongly implies that the same is true of the previous incarnation of the LSH, which might have the reverse effect of turning prospective new readers off, i.e. how good can it be if it was once so bad?

I take mild offense at "Never Mind the Die-Hards". Is Waid warning new readers away from Legionworld?

Well, I know at least two people who I recommended The Legion to (I think I mentioned this nearer the time). Know why they said "no"? - "it'll just get rebooted again." One of them even thought Legion Lost had been a full reboot.

Last Laughs and all that...

Similar misperceptions can be found all over the internet. The destruction wrought by 15 years of retcons, reimaginings and reboots hasn't escaped the DC readership at large. Some people consider the LSH a hopeless cause and the off-putting tone of this article, and its emphasis on failed ideas that need fixing, didn't help erase that unfortunate prejudice. (And why in Rao's name would they include the "She-Man" Shvaughn retcon as an example of the LSH legacy? The titillation factor, I guess, but it serves only to underline how low the book can sink.)

I suggest that Barry do the interviews in future, since he's better at casting things in positive light than Waid is, and appears to have higher regard for his fellow fans.

[doublechinner]
{[...] "We've listened to what the hardcore fans wanted--all 10,000 of them, worldwide--and given them a seamlessly complicated blend of the pre-boot and post-boot Legion, including Shikari AND Dawnstar (no offense, Greybird)!" }

None taken. Your cynical aside, though, seems to imply views on your part about two matters that point in my general direction -- and which, I submit, are mistaken.

I have no problem with Kari, but only with the counterfactual assumption (against DnA and their work) that she's Dawny's "new version" or "successor." She is neither. They'd do well to both be present, as their talents do differ. I'd like to see them together.

And you're confusing what I would like to see, reflecting past creations, with what is realistic to expect in a published book. I know the limitations of publishing and of Legion storytelling. That doesn't prevent musings in public, nor asking rhetorically for what one desires. (Nor our proceeding to create it in fan fiction. I have a cosmic-sleuths plot percolating in my head for Kari and Dawny.)

Then, Superman got his powers from Earth's lighter gravity, not eugenics.First there was a Superman, from a race of supermen on the planet Krypton. His parents' names change depending on the medium.

Superman could only jump, then he could fly. First he could lift a car, but eventually he could throw around planets.

Then, there was a Superboy, when there hadn't been one before.

Then there was Kryptonite, originally red, then green.

Then there was a Supergirl, Superdog, Supercat, Superhorse, Supermonkey, and a whole host of Superpeople, both in a Phantom Zone and in a miniaturized city, so that eventually the only Kryptonians who actually died in the destruction of Krypton were the Superman's parents.

First Lex Luthor was a red-headed mad scientist, but he transformed into a bald mad scientist, and then into a boyhood friend of the Superman who blamed Supes for his baldness.

Then there was color of Kryponite for every conceivable Super-doom, from losing your powers to super-halitosis.

Then one day there wasn't a Superboy. There wasn't a Supergirl, there wasn't a Superdog, or Superpeople of any sort besides the Superman, and his homeworld was a dry, sterile place and his adoptive parents didn't die. And Lex Luthor was Donald Trump, but honest about his hair loss. And Superman and Batman hated each other. And then there was a Superboy but he was not the Superman as a boy, and he died, and later Superman killed, and went crazy, and abandoned his neverending battle, and died, and came back to life, and got married.

And then it turned out that the Superman's parents WERE groovy hep-cats after all, the sterile prig thing being a total put-on, and then there was a Superdog, and now a Supergirl (after more supergirlish girls than I can keep straight).

I don't know why anyone reads those Superman comics. They've been rebooted and retconned more times than I can count!

I think the difference between a Legion reboot and any other reboot, like the Superman examples above, for example is -

A.) They rarely make it a complete and utter restart. They subtly change things and keep the stories flowing.

B.) They don't make it a point to insult or ridicule those people who have been following the changes from the beginning and possess the ability to differentiate those changes.