Legion World Forums LEGION CLUBHOUSE The Legion of Super-Heroes All-new Characters!

It took forty years for the Legion of Super-Heroes to appear on the silver screen, and eight more years for it to get its own series. Most fans now froth at the idea of seeing his or her favorite character animated. Given the size of the Legion-verse, and the relatively small amount of it that has appeared so far, what do y’all think of the idea of creating characters specifically for the series? While so far we’ve seen a couple of original re-imaginings (Superman X, Alexis) a couple of all-new villains, and a brand new supporting character in K.3.N.T., the creators have, in general, been skittish in creating their own characters. Should they continue to stick to established characters, or should they attempt to create their own addition to the mythos?

Given the dozens, if not hundreds, of potential characters for them to use, it might prove to actually be a bit of a challenge for them to come up with something new. And if they didn't, what would be the point of introducing a new character that aped the theme of an established Legion character?

I'm fond of a lot of 'newer' Legion characters, whether they be Laurel Kent-new, Shikari-new or Theena-new, so I'm not totally stuck in the past, but I'd be leery of the writers introducing some new character that just makes me want to see someone *else* more.

For example, it may seem to one of the writers like an 'original idea' to make a dude out of energy be the villain-of-the-week, but it's gonna irk me if it isn't Wildfire.

Sure, the writers *could* come up with some original characters that don't replicate the abilities / theme of any Legionnaire, Hero of Lallor, Substitute Legionnaire, Academy student, Wanderer, Fatal Fiver, Super-Assassin Leaguer, Legionnaire (of Super-Villains), Workforce member, etc., but really, that's kind of *work!*

I was hoping that Zzok would join the Legion. Yes, by all means, bring on the new characters. For a franchise that's supposed to be about the future, the Legion recycles the past a whole lot.

DC has a great track record with introducing ideas or characters in the cartoon that get popular enough to make it into the comics (Harley Quinn, Jon Stewart's newfound popularity, etc).

I'm all for new Legion members! I don't want to just see retold stories from the comics, I want new stuff. Stuff that is original to the show. It doesn't have to be XS or Gates, or Theena or Dream Boy, or whatever, lets see some completely new and different characters (heroes and villains!)

I'm all for it

Don't stray too far now. Its better that balance be maintained.

While I see your point, I fail to see how this applies to the cartoon (or movies for that matter). The fact is we're talking about another medium and so none of the "past" has happened yet to warrant moving away from anything.

Basically, you're asking for a cartoon based on something other than the Legion. You can't move forward if it hasn't happened yet. Just because you've read the story in a comic doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't be presented as a cartoon.

Sometimes fans and creators don't remeber that these stories are new to this audience and this medium. You might be bored by seeing the same charaters and the same stories you're familiar with, but howabout waiting to bring some new ideas and characters into the Legion cartoon afteryou've established a Legion cartoon. I don't need to see every story reproduced, but it would be cool to see the major ones and progress from there.

Too bad some creators have their own egos and want to re-invent the wheel before it's been invented yet.

^^^ Well said, Gary. I think you really hit the nail on the head.

Sorry, I'm only seeing this response now.

I guess what's happening is that we see the Legion differently. I see it as a kind of loose, flexible template with some established facts (1000 years in the future, superheroes who are or who started out as teens, inspired by Superman/boy, etc.) but with everything else up in the air. It's probably desirable to keep some of the characters the same (Cham, Ultra Boy, the three founders, Brainy, etc.) but not strictly necessary. I don't think the cartoon needs to establish dozens of the same characters and storylines from the comics before they're 'established' as a Legion cartoon. I think they were established as a Legion cartoon from halfway through the first episode.

Anyway, once you've got the basic premise, you can proceed to do almost whatever you want and you've still got a Legion story. I don't object to the cartoon using characters or stories that have been in the comic books, but I don't want the cartoon to be restricted to that.

The comic books are okay with doing stuff that has never appeared in the cartoon, right? Then the cartoon should be free to do stuff that has never appeared in the comics. I think it would be really cool if the cartoon came up with a whole new Legionnaire. Wouldn't it? (Actually, there is a Legionnaire who has never appeared in the comics: Kell-El. But he's just another boring Superman variant.)

Yeah, that’s basically my viewpoint, too: the Legion concept is bigger than it’s characters—I’ve sometimes wondered how the fandom would react if DC decided to publish a Legion book with none of the established Legionnaires, yet firmly based on established Legion mythos—something like “Legion of Super-Heroes of the 33st Century”. While I wouldn’t want the established Legionnaires swept away from their own show by a wave of original creations, I don’t feel the writers should feel constrained to the established, either. Given some of their re-imaginings (STAH-FINGER!) I’m confident they could come up with something memorable, if they tried.

Personally, I think one of the most important reasons the creative lull the Legion has been in the past few years can be attributed to writers’ unwillingness to truly create and experiment. Peyer, Waid, and McGraw’s Legion may have had its share of crap stories and ideas (particularly after LSH #100), but, as a whole, it left its mark (Kinetix. Gates. XS. Monstress.) Subsequent creators, on the other hand, have been more conservative, to what I believe has been the detriment of the Legion. DnA’s most popular story (as I understand it—correct me if I’m wrong) was Legion Lost, where they radically changed the status quo and added their original creations to the Legion mythos. Once stability was restored and the lost team reunited, they stopped creating new concepts, (instead relying on established foes like Ra’s Al Ghul, C.O.M.P.U.T.O. and Universo) making for what I thought was a forgettable conclusion to their run. Likewise, Waid’s Legion was at its best, in my opinion, when he was introducing his take on the 31st century. Once his Legion gained legitimacy (within the narrative) and started operating more like the “original” Legion (if only slightly) Waid started going through the motions, and the Legion once again lost its steam—now, it’s future seems in doubt, barely three years after its inception. While its too early to see what Geoff’s take on the Legion will hold, I’m not too enthused, given his track record. Given this creative lull, limiting the cartoon—the Legion’s best chance at revitalization—to the already established seems wrong-headed.

One of my favorite programs is the current cartoon incarnation of the Ninja Turtles, based on the original comic books (unlike the original, “classic” toon from the 80’s-90’s). Over the past few years, the showrunners for the series have adapted most of the comic book stories worth re-telling, while simultaneously introducing a slew of new stories and characters, some of which became major players within that incarnation of the franchise, and fit naturally with the already-established ones. True, the TMNT has only a fraction of the history the Legion has, and therefore less material to draw from, but my point remains: while the series could have still been quite good had it stuck only to the source material, it was its willingness to try something new that made it stand out as something different from the source material, but just as viable. While the toon Legion has already proven its worth, I want it to be unforgettable and un-ignorable: I want it to be just as viable an incarnation of the Legion as the original, while still marking its own path. New characters and concepts, I feel, are an important step in achieving that.

New characters my sound like a good idea at first, but remember. Selling new characters is very hard. Two factors that make this task difficult, are winning over the loyal long time fans, and coming up with fresh ideas to make the new heores interesting. Mess up on either and you could turn the name of the legion into a collosal flop.

I would *much* rather see the 'adventures of the Legion's kids' or whatever than yet another re-interpretation of the same Legion team, done badly, again and again.

With a new team of heroes, tied to the Legion in the same sort of distant way that the Deep Space Nine crew are 'tied to' the Enterprise crew (as in, not really), the writers don't have to worry about 'getting them wrong.' We won't have arguments about why Cos is being an ass or Dreamy isn't with (bearded) Thom, or Element Lad has become a pathetic shell of a character with some 1000 year out of date soul-patch.

We might argue about whether or not Element Lad's grand-daughter should be such a space-case, but it will be us not liking her being portrayed as a space-case, not the writers disrespecting (or outright ignoring) a pre-established character, and, more importantly, that characters pre-existing fanbase, who didn't buy a comic entitled 'the Legion of Super-Heroes' to read about a bunch of punks who are completely different, but inexplicably have the same names.

If something has Legion of Super-Heroes on the cover, and a character named Projectra of Orando on the cover, I kinda expect her to be the stately queen of a sovereign world and have had a thing for Karate Kid. Not a snake. Not a purple-haired half-snake. Not Paris Frakkin Hilton-of-space, whining to her daddy about needing more money because her space-cruiser is the wrong frakking color to match her eyes.

Grr. Argh.

Set said You said it, Set!

New characters and concepts? I'm all for it. New stories? Ditto. Little retcons that will make characters more interesting? Sure. A book with all-new characters? Why not? I'd buy it.
But when you have established characters with a history of several decades, you gotta respect those characters AND the fans who love and support them.
Take Superman for example. One could take his costume away and have him wear Dorothy's from the Wizard of Oz gingham dress, complete with the ruby slippers. I'm sure there's will be people who will like Superman in that costume. Most fans though will be enraged by it. It's not just the costume, nor is there anything wrong with Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz. It just won't be "Superman" anymore. There are some innovations you can do. There are some that you just can't. Not with established characters.

What name? With the exception of the cartoon, the Legion hasn't really been worth much, these past few years--notice that the bulk of the board's discussion still centers on the Preboot Legion and that the Threeboot Legion has dwindled down to one thread per issue. Plus, one thing worth noting is that the bulk of the cartoon's audience isn't made out of "long-time fans"--on the contrary, it's made out of people who have probably never heard of the Legion before. Unless the cartoon spurs them to independenly research the Legion, they probably won't know the difference between a character from the comic books and an all-new one.

Are there risks involved in creating a new character? Yes--for example, X-Men: Evolution's first original character, Spyke, never caught on and was eventually written out of the series. Is there a particular need for all-new characters at this point? No--the show is still young, and there are plenty of characters from the books yet to make appearances. At this point, my desire to see new characters is less about the show than it is about the Legion as a whole. Still, if they try and fail, then we merely get a dud among several strong characters (unless, of course, he is pushed on to the audience and made to overshadow his teammates, an outcome I do not think anybody wishes for); if they try and succeed, then the Legion mythos will grow richer for it.

When I said "making the new heroes interesting" I was refering to the audience that don't know about the Legion. I hear everything you're saying,but I never said it was impossible. Its just difficult. Also I wan't refering to one person. I was commenting on the prospect of replacing the whole team, which was mentioned in previous posts in this thread. Still its a delicate balance that could mean the difference between the creators getting a paycheck and not getting a paycheck. That's probaly why they make decisions to do reimaginings and staying close to the legion's roots. Its harder that you think, man. Don't come down so hard on the creators for it.